Tonewood and Magnetism - Missing the Point

Tony M. said:
Can I play?
(Not very well but that's beside the point.)



I have 2 Gibson ES 335s.
A red one and a sunburst one.
:)

Same electronics.
Same hardware.
Same pickups.
Same strings.
Same setup.
Same me playing them through the
same cable into the
same amplifier playing the
same notes and chords.

That's 9, count 'em, NINE sames.
That's a whole herd of sames
stampeding down the pike.
:eek:

Now the differents:
They are from different trees.
They are different colors.
Only 2.
No.
3.

They sound different.
Very different.
How can this be?
:confused:


I don't care why they sound different and in fact,
if they sounded the same one of them would be
redundant and I would probably sell it.

Go play your guitars people.
Overthinking leads to loss of fun time.
Click to expand...

Tony, I'd love to hear BOTH your ES335's

Any chance you could play a little something of the same song on each for us to hear?
I swear I can hear and enjoy the versions of Rush songs when Alex Lifeson plays his ES guitars over the same songs played on Strats, PRS, Les Pauls.

Now I know one could argue I am hearing different amps, studios, venues for gigs, etc, but I know I just have always liked his ES's. This is not saying I dislike his 1275 or Lesters etc, I just guess I love that sound of ES guitars. Steve Howe's 175 included.
 
Some days, my study of objective hermeneutics hardly seems worth it.
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smitty_p said:
"Does coffee taste better in glass or ceramic?"
Click to expand...
Well, I'm a ceramic guy, but a very stylish uncle drank coffee from glass cups, back in the late 50s, early 60s. Fact is, my coffee tastes about the same whether you drink it from a ceramic cup or a tin can.
 
Tony M. said:
study of hermeneutics...

What's that?
The study of guys named Herman
who have been neutered?
Click to expand...
It is a useful tool in the interpretation of historical legal and philosophical documents. Useless in trying to interpret the POTUS' tweets.
 
Biddlin said:
It is a useful tool in the interpretation of historical legal and philosophical documents. Useless in trying to interpret the POTUS' tweets.
Click to expand...

Were the last 8 words actually part of the definition
or were they your obsession rearing its head again?
Don't drink the cool aid. You're smarter than that.
 
Mocking the president is a time honored tradition and this guy provides all the fuel. Why are you obsessed with defending the traitor?
 
Tony M. said:
Were the last 8 words actually part of the definition
or were they your obsession rearing its head again?
Don't drink the cool aid. You're smarter than that.
Click to expand...
First, I love the twist this tonewood thread has taken. Just as likely to solve something, but even ore likely to be explosive!

Tony, what is the kool aid in this particular context?

Also, let me know when I should move this to the shed. I do not think we are there yet!
 
RVA said:
Tony, what is the kool aid in this particular context?
Click to expand...

It's a cautionary note about following blindly.
"Everyone is saying it so it must be true" is a sneaky trap.
I see no hard evidence. All I see is accusations and media induced mass hysteria.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Jim Jones
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the Peoples Temple leader. For other persons of the same name, see Jim Jones (disambiguation).
Jim Jones

Jones at an anti-eviction protest in front of the International Hotel in 1977
Born James Warren Jones
(1931-05-13)May 13, 1931
Crete, Indiana, U.S.
Died November 18, 1978(1978-11-18) (aged 47)
Jonestown, Guyana
Cause of death gunshot wound
Occupation Cult leader
Spouse(s) Marceline Baldwin Jones (m. 1949; d. 1978)
Children 7
James Warren Jones (May 13, 1931 – November 18, 1978) was an American cult leader, mass murderer and communist.[1][2] Jones was ordained as a Disciples of Christ pastor, and he achieved notoriety as the founder and leader of the Peoples Temple, which was often described as having cult-like qualities.

In 1978, media reports surfaced that human rights abuses were taking place in Peoples Temple's Jonestown, Guyana headquarters. (United States) Leo Ryan led an investigation into the commune and was murdered while boarding a return flight with defectors. Jones subsequently committed a mass murder-suicide of 918 of his followers in Jonestown, Guyana. Nearly three hundred children were murdered, almost all of them by cyanide poisoning via a Flavor Aid mix. This historical episode gave rise to the ubiquitous American-English expression "drinking the Kool-Aid".

Jones was born in Indiana and was influenced by communism as a child, as well as ideas of racial equality. He started the People's Temple in Indiana 1950s. He later moved the Temple to California in the mid-1960s, and gained notoriety with its activities in San Francisco in the early 1970s.

Drinking the Kool-Aid
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
For the Veronica Mars episode, see Drinking the Kool-Aid (Veronica Mars).
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is an idiom commonly used in the United States that refers to any person or group who knowingly goes along with a doomed or dangerous idea because of peer pressure. The phrase often carries a negative connotation when applied to an individual or group. It can also be used ironically or humorously to refer to accepting an idea or changing a preference due to popularity, peer pressure, or persuasion.

The phrase derives from the November 1978 Jonestown deaths,[1][2][3] in which over 900 members of the Peoples Temple, who were followers of Jim Jones, died, many of whom committed suicide by drinking a mixture of a powdered soft-drink flavoring agent laced with cyanide and prescription drugs Valium, Phenergan, and chloral hydrate, while the rest of the members, including 89 infants and elderly, were killed by forced ingestion of the poison. The actual brand of soft-drink flavoring was a mixture of both Kool-Aid and a competing brand, Flavor Aid.[4][5]
 
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Biddlin said:
Mocking the president is a time honored tradition and this guy provides all the fuel. Why are you obsessed with defending the traitor?
Click to expand...

I am not defending "the traitor" as you so put it.
I am defending the American justice system.
I think it says "innocent until proven guilty".
I have seen no hard evidence proving treason,
yet you shout it from the rooftops and drag
the POTUS into a thread about tone woods.

Trumpocalypse hysteria belongs in the shed.

Thank you for proving my point.
 
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RVA said:
I am the maker of that statement. It was not made in tHe context of a debate to settle all bets, it was said as sacasm, plain and simple.

Now I will make an argument. ARGUMENT HAT ON (which means you can't get personally offended If my statements are adamant)

Now, what evidence do you have that strings are sympathetic to the wood that surrounds them? Admittedly, none, for you have never seem a valid test. But you are not a tonewood advocate, just their pro hac defender of the moment.

So I offer you a test. I offer everyone here a test. We can all agree that I have a number of guitars. I will split them up 50/50, those with maple necks and fretboards and those with mahogany necks and rosewood fretboards. I will then make a category of maple cap v. all hog. I will make any category you want. I bet you nobody, no skilled musician or luthier, does better than approximately 50/50.

I will anticipate tHe next argument, which would be "well, the 2 categories of guitars would have to be the same in all other respects except the variable." I would argue that while this may be true from a scientific perspective, it is irrelevant from a practical perspective. If you cannot hear it, if none of us who obsess about these instruments can hear it, it does not matter.

Now, what would be the same is the amp, effects, open pots, cable length and recording medium in my test. But these things are rarely the same in real life, making it exquisitely less likely that you will be able to tell what kinds of wood the guitar is sporting in real life

Tonewoodies are contrarians, they are criticizers. They will take issue with every test. But they offer nothing in return, especially anything that matters. So I challenge every tonewoodie who ever existed, take the test. Prove me wrong. If anyone can consistently guess, I will change my opinion. Until then, the debate is moot, dead, irrelevant and simply mental masturbation.

Throw your names in the hat below. Define the categories. Prove me wrong.
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I am not highly educated, neither do I have a degree in anything musical, but I wish that I could describe or identify what it is that I find so attractive about a certain guitar and how it relates to this discussion. I know that I have put at least 10 different pickups in my 1987 Squirecaster, and each and every one sounded different in my 2016 Gibson SG - and what was different??? Scale Length??? Wood??? That's about all there is, and I have already been literally blasted herein for the mere suggestion that scale length changes the tone of a guitar, but I hear a distinct difference in the scale lengths.

I can play guitar after guitar and every time I find one I like, Mahogany is present....
 
I'm with Robert on the scale length thing.

Of course scale length will effect tone.
Longer scale length + same diameter string
= more tension on the string to achieve a given pitch.
More tension on the string = a more strident high end.

It's not just the scale length either.
The amount of string from bridge to tailpiece and
nut to tuning machine has to be figured in as well.
The longer the total length of the string is, the tighter
it has to be wound to achieve a certain pitch.

Play a Stratocaster.
Play a Stratocaster with a reversed headstock.
The one with the reversed headstock will have tighter lows
and less strident highs. This is because its low strings have
more tension and its high strings have less tension than
the one with the normal headstock.

Added icing on the cake benefit:
Bending the high E, B and G strings will also be easier due to the
lower tension on those strings with the reverse headstock.

Gibson got it right with the Firebirds.
Neck through construction.
Reverse headstock.
Good design.
 
Tony M. said:
I'm with Robert on the scale length thing.

Of course scale length will effect tone.
Longer scale length + same diameter string
= more tension on the string to achieve a given pitch.
More tension on the string = a more strident high end.

It's not just the scale length either.
The amount of string from bridge to tailpiece and
nut to tuning machine has to be figured in as well.
The longer the total length of the string is, the tighter
it has to be wound to achieve a certain pitch.

Play a Stratocaster.
Play a Stratocaster with a reversed headstock.
The one with the reversed headstock will have tighter lows
and less strident highs. This is because its low strings have
more tension and its high strings have less tension than
the one with the normal headstock.

Added icing on the cake benefit:
Bending the high E, B and G strings will also be easier due to the
lower tension on those strings with the reverse headstock.

Gibson got it right with the Firebirds.
Neck through construction.
Reverse headstock.
Good design.
Click to expand...

Wow...I never tried that, but what an amazing theory...
 
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