For me to go clean, I would turn off the SD1, and lower guitar volume, like I used to do with my 2104 way back when I was young.
Cheers
High Voltages After Headfirst Origin 50 Mod
- Thread starter Inspector #20
- Start date
Cheers
OP
I reject playing clean. I find it boring.
I can't think of any gigs where I've ever played clean, but if I kick off the 'boost' on the Origin, it really sounds sparkly and clean.
OP
Here's some more information:
Rob, I haven’t looked at the original schematic, but Aikens has a white paper on the Long tail pair PI. He says, “If C1 is made small (less than .01uF or so, with 1Meg grid resistors), it will improve the low frequency response balance between the two output phases if the second coupling cap, C2, is made at least ten times larger than the first cap, C1.” This is basically what you have going on with those 10n/100n caps. I believe the 50pF cap across the plates is to tame high frequency oscillation..."
Rob, I haven’t looked at the original schematic, but Aikens has a white paper on the Long tail pair PI. He says, “If C1 is made small (less than .01uF or so, with 1Meg grid resistors), it will improve the low frequency response balance between the two output phases if the second coupling cap, C2, is made at least ten times larger than the first cap, C1.” This is basically what you have going on with those 10n/100n caps. I believe the 50pF cap across the plates is to tame high frequency oscillation..."
I understand what you’re saying, but I’m talking about an amp that actually is clean. The “rolling back” the volume doesn’t really make for a nice, airy clean. It’s cleanER, but still not a nice, clear clean.
That’s why I’ve resigned myself to developing a multi-amp setup as the final iteration of my rig.
I like Marshall dirt and Fender clean. Plus, I’ve realized that I don’t care for an EL34/EL84 clean as much as a 6L6/6V6 type of clean.
In short, the approach Eric Johnson takes strikes me as the way to go.
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
There are some combo amps that do this very well. Rivera Amps is one of them.
In the way back machine we used to play
Beyond the Realms of Death
It has a clean intro, and Rick and myself would roll down the guitar volume and pull it off no clean amps both of us where playing through full stack Marshall’s both 50 watters his was a 1987, with a MV mod, mine was the 2104.
And it was never a problem, boost for the heavy parts was turn the volume back to 10 on our guitars.
Cheers
This is why I consistently point out how personal music is.
Conversely, I find a constant presentation of high-gain metal to be boring. I mean, it can be fun for a couple of songs, but whether I’m listening to music or playing it, I like to be able to experience a wide variety of music. What interests me a lot is hearing how different instrumentation is layered in a song and how all the instruments contribute to the overall product. I may find a song to be really interesting and it may have very little guitar.
That’s the way it has been in the bands I’ve been in - a set list may run from Motown to metal, country to classic rock.
So, you and I just have two different things we find compelling in music. And that’s okay…there’s enough variety to go around!
OP
I grew up digging Sabbath, Molly Htachtet, Triumph, Scorpions, Def Leppard and Motorhead, so it's in my blood.
Honestly, If I could get paid to play clean, I might try it. But the real money is in classic rock and 80's and 90's metal, and that's kind of my area of specialty. I have a 214 song mental catalog without any chord or lyrics sheets. I don't own a music stand.
I developed a guitar rig that I can sit 3 feet from, with the MV on 8, let go of the guitar and get zero feedback, so I've made metal my business, albeit my obsession I suppose.
But, I'm excited to get my Origin hot rodded!!!!
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
The 50pf (47pf) cap, commonly called a "fizz" cap, is there for exactly that, to reduce high frequency fizz. The 0.1uf cap though is there to keep the non inverting (V3b) triode's grid at (or actually close to) AC ground.
Notice that Mr Tong has bypassed the (V2b) cathode follower's 100k cathode load resistor with a 470pf capacitor. This will be dumping some of the high frequencies (& harmonic content). It'd be interesting to A/B the modified amp with vs without that 470pf bypass cap.
Cheers
And, honestly, I like those sounds, too!
Also, I don’t play only clean all the time. In fact, I play dirty much, if not most, of the time. But, there are those times where I value a truly clean sound.
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
I do know the Origin suffers more hum/fuzz/noise than any of my other tube amps when I add pedals --I still love it for what it is -- a MARSHALL tube amp--
for the more "freee thinkers".................
the Peavey VK 20 mh (yes snicker ridicule-- poke fun) is .....far superior in being QUIET no matter what I plug into it pedal wise
has LOADS of clean (almost) Fenderish headroom... stacks of "features" and recording options and extras NOT offered on most other tube amps at this price point .......
also it is capable of STUPID levels of gain ........chug.......squeal and metal mayhem..including a DAMN convincing (at least back to back) MESA recto tone on the dirt channel against a JOYO "mesa" sounding pedal
for the more "freee thinkers".................
the Peavey VK 20 mh (yes snicker ridicule-- poke fun) is .....far superior in being QUIET no matter what I plug into it pedal wise
has LOADS of clean (almost) Fenderish headroom... stacks of "features" and recording options and extras NOT offered on most other tube amps at this price point .......
also it is capable of STUPID levels of gain ........chug.......squeal and metal mayhem..including a DAMN convincing (at least back to back) MESA recto tone on the dirt channel against a JOYO "mesa" sounding pedal
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
This would be something to try, and it should be easy to do. Is the bypass cap piggybacked with the resistor, or does it have a spot on the pcb already?
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
During the period in which the older type presence circuit was being used, Marshall experimented with the addition of a 4k7 resistor on some amps. There was a couple of ways in which it was configured. These can be seen in the following diagrams (diagram taken from the Metroamp forum, IIRC).
The older presence circuit can be seen at the upper left, the modern presence circuit can be seen at the upper right. The lower right presence circuit can also be seen below in this JMP 2203 schematic.
My personal favourite though is at the lower left. Compared to the commonly used early presence circuit, this circuit makes for a gainier PI (phase inverter) as the presence is turned up, that in turn hits the power tubes a little harder. Seen in this schematic
Do you mean the 470pf capacitor bypassing the cathode follower's 100k cathode load resistor??
I'd have to go back & read through his instructional or look at pics to be sure of where he has added the cap.
It would be easy to piggyback the resistor with it, though. Cheers
Last edited:
I hadn’t considered them before. I just looked into them a bit. The Venus 5 head looks interesting. Do you have any experience with that?
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
Yes.
I guess I can go back and look too, but I was a bit too lazy last night to do so...
No personal experience with the Rivera's Venus series of amps, but the few videos I've seen are very impressive. I do own a Rivera Quiana (50 watt, 6L6's, 2 channel, 4x10 combo), that does the Fender/Marshall combo very well. The Fandango is about the same as the Quiana but operates on EL34's. Some Venus's are based on 6V6's, some are 6L6's, and some have EL34's. The Chubster and the Clubster have similar topologies too.
OP
I can dig a good, clear, clean tone...
OP
Mega talent!!!!
OP
This is as clean as I get....1987 Squirecaster, 1992 DiMarzio DP404 Stacked Single Coil, 10k, through Blackstar ID-Core 100watt direct out...
Disregard the tremolo dive, just listen to the arpegiated chords.
Listen to Perfect Strangers - Tremolo Dive - Isolated Tracks by Von Herndon on #SoundCloud
soundcloud.app.goo.gl
Disregard the tremolo dive, just listen to the arpegiated chords.
Listen to Perfect Strangers - Tremolo Dive - Isolated Tracks by Von Herndon on #SoundCloud
SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds
Explore the largest community of artists, bands, podcasters and creators of music & audio