New Borrowed Mesa Fillmore 50 Day!!!!

gball said:
I do. Not sure I would necessarily say to "tighten" things up so much as push the front of the preamp to distort it slightly; the Mark 5 is plenty tight and percussive all on its own.
I use it more as a clean boost, with the Drive knob almost all the way down and the level way up, and I like the added depth I get just by giving that little goose to V1.

Pretty sure the TS and similar use opamp/chip clipping not diodes, but again, not that it makes much difference. And I don't have any problems with diode clipping per se, just pointing out that Mesa doesn't use it for clarity.
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I played Dual and Triple Rectifiers, Mark V/35, Recto-Verb, Fillmore, and the Badlander.

All were of great construction. The Badlander produced the most gain of all of them, but it still needed a TS-9 to develop a tighter gain structure.

But honestly, I do not fault Mesa because I don't think they were shooting for this type of sonic character.

Even then, the Badlander with a TS-9 didnt have the gain production, percussion or midrange "snarl" that @Don O's 1997 #8280 Valvestate Bi-Chorus 2x12 Combo has.

Even with the gain on '10' its fully useable, never muddy and cuts like a knife.

The 8200/8280 are the best sounding amps I've EVER played, second place is Engl Fireball/Inferno.

Chuck Shculdiner of Death used stock Valvestate 8100's on his recordings.

Now I full understand why.
 
smitty_p said:
I think you’re right. There is a whole cult following of certain opamps within the Tubscreamer aficionado community. I replaced the opamp in my TS-9 with one of the holy grail opamps when I bought it, but I don’t even remember what it was!
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My TS-9 has the Maxon PCB.
 
Robert Herndon said:
I played Dual and Triple Rectifiers, Mark V/35, Recto-Verb, Fillmore, and the Badlander.

All were of great construction. The Badlander produced the most gain of all of them, but it still needed a TS-9 to develop a tighter gain structure.

But honestly, I do not fault Mesa because I don't think they were shooting for this type of sonic character.

Even then, the Badlander with a TS-9 didnt have the gain production, percussion or midrange "snarl" that @Don O's 1997 #8280 Valvestate Bi-Chorus 2x12 Combo has.

Even with the gain on '10' its fully useable, never muddy and cuts like a knife.

The 8200/8280 are the best sounding amps I've EVER played, second place is Engl Fireball/Inferno.

Chuck Shculdiner of Death used stock Valvestate 8100's on his recordings.

Now I full understand why.
Click to expand...
I gotta ask.
The Badlander had the MOST gain but still needed a TS9 even after playing a Mk V 35? Cause my 35 is loaded with gain and sure doesn't need an upfront boost. Doesn't get muddy, the graphic gives it some real oomph and the first channel with that mid boost feature really cooks.
You felt it needed a TS9 up front? Not judging just asking.
Mine is a killer little amp.
 
Jethro Rocker said:
I gotta ask.
The Badlander had the MOST gain but still needed a TS9 even after playing a Mk V 35? Cause my 35 is loaded with gain and sure doesn't need an upfront boost. Doesn't get muddy, the graphic gives it some real oomph and the first channel with that mid boost feature really cooks.
You felt it needed a TS9 up front? Not judging just asking.
Mine is a killer little amp.
Click to expand...

Yes,

None of the The Mesa's had enough gain to give me a percussive attack, even though the TS-9 tightened them up considerably. When I say "percussive," I'm talking about actually getting what feels and sounds like speaker movement.

@Don O heard this tonight when I dialed up a tone on his DSL40C. I could get a solid thump on the DSL40C, yet still had enough gain to push the midrange up in front.

When you push the Mesa's, they do have a very cutting midrange - and this is good - but their tone stack won't allow you to augment that with enough bass to make it round and full.

The Mesa's sound like an AM radio. Biting midrange, but no real balls behind it, no matter how they were EQ'd.

In contrast, my 8200 through a 2x12 cabinet has a searing, chain-saw midrange edge (think Rhoad's tone on "Flying High Again) that is coupled with a massive upper low-end thump that will make your nose run at elevated volume levels, with complete clarity.

When dialed in correctly, it's reminiscent of Zakk Wylde’s rhythm tone on "No More Tears," but with added midrange edge.

I do not think the Mesa's are "bad," it's just I like a multidimensional tone that I can't get with them.
 
Maybe a hearing test is in order no joke. When people loose hearing they play more distorted.
So far have not found a bad sounding Mesa amp.
I'm thankful my drum teacher made me aware of hearing protection when I'm alone practice unplugged on guitar.
Band practice amp volume 4 master volume 2 both amps
Small clubs same settings speakers pointed to the back wall.
GE Smith Jammed with my band he put a cardboard box over my amp he used sounded great.
 
67plexi said:
Maybe a hearing test is in order no joke. When people loose hearing they play more distorted.
So far have not found a bad sounding Mesa amp.
Click to expand...

The last line of my post above reads "I do not think the Mesa's are "bad," it's just that I like a multidimensional tone that I can't get with them..."

I've always played with a ton of gain, cranked mids and as much resonance as a speaker can handle. I've posted videos of this to prove this. My guitar amp is so percussive that it routinely knocks pictures off the wall.

It's why I've been nicknamed "The Neanderthal."

I don't have the time or patience for the "learning curve" with Mesa's or Kempers for that matter. @Don O kinda understands what I mean when I say that. He and I were discussing this fact last night up at his studio.

The Mesa manual for the Fillmore talked about how the circuit was designed to roll off certain frequencies as you increased gain. Everything I tried to get from a Mesa, the amp would counteract.

Mesa's are certainly loud and can be heard in a live mix very nicely, but they just don't have the punch that I'm looking for. I have nothing bad to say about them other than I prefer the way a Marshall tone stack works.

In summary, I didn't like how I sounded playing through Mesa's, but other people sound great through them and love them and that's totally cool.

@Don O's pad last night, I cranked up his DSL40C to a crisp, speaker thumping level in just a few seconds of tweaking EQ's and that was with a 5751 in V1.

Now, maybe that's not a fair comparison, because I gigged with a DSL40C (5) nights a week for two years, so I know how to get a tone that l like out of them, but it's an honest observation.
 
Robert Herndon said:
This kinda stuff always makes me smile...

from: Art Vasquez <melodysandmayham@****.com>to:"Robert Von Herndon" <RobertVonHerndon@*****.com>
date: Aug 23, 2021, 8:22 PM
subject: Your live tone
:mailed-by:hotmail.com signed-by:hotmail.com security:
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cleardot.gif

:Important according to Google magic.

Hey Rob. We met after your 08/20 performance at Mill Creek and you gave me your card. I wanted to ask you about your amp rig. I've never heard any guitar sound that big in a club before. Its not so much that its loud its just that it fills up the room and you can feel every note even on the single strings. If you could share your setup and settings that would be awesome.
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Because some people believe that "knob settings" are the secret to electric guitar....
Because some people believe that there is a magic guitar effects pedal...
Some people think there is a magic guitar amp, with magic transformers...:pound-hand:

But what they don't realize is:
it's the person playing the guitar, there is no "knob setting" secret !

Even if Robert Herndon was playing a Peavey Backstage...
even if he was playing the crappiest guitar on earth...(he could play a Teisco Del Ray, or an Alamo Fiesta...)

he would still sound good.
It's talent, it's work, but it's sure as hell not knob settings, or pedals, or the amplifier.:pound-hand::pound-hand:
 
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Amp Mad Scientist said:
Because some people believe that "knob settings" are the secret to electric guitar....
Because some people believe that there is a magic guitar effects pedal...
Some people think there is a magic guitar amp, with magic transformers...:pound-hand:

But what they don't realize is:
it's the person playing the guitar, there is no "knob setting" secret !

Even if Robert Herndon was playing a Peavey Backstage...
even if he was playing the crappiest guitar on earth...(he could play a Teisco Del Ray, or an Alamo Fiesta...)

he would still sound good.
It's talent, it's work, but it's sure as hell not knob settings, or pedals, or the amplifier.:pound-hand::pound-hand:
Click to expand...
Amen…….

Got into this very “discussion” on another forum years ago…. With what turned out to be a 16 year old kid that was an SG devotee and Angus disciple. I dared suggest Angus would sound like Angus playing my crappy G400. Boy was that the wrong thing to say!!!

And yes. Robert would sound good on whatever you handed him. Kinda like… hand Angus a Strat. Hand David Gilmore an SG and with a couple moments to tweak….. are gonna still sound like Angus and David.

Edit: Case in point. My youngest is a way better guitar player than am I. Pick any one of my guitars. He’ll plug in. Tweak the amp. Tweak the pedals. And sound freaking awesome. I change nothing!! And still sound like crap.
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
Because some people believe that "knob settings" are the secret to electric guitar....
Because some people believe that there is a magic guitar effects pedal...
Some people think there is a magic guitar amp, with magic transformers...:pound-hand:

But what they don't realize is:
it's the person playing the guitar, there is no "knob setting" secret !

Even if Robert Herndon was playing a Peavey Backstage...
even if he was playing the crappiest guitar on earth...(he could play a Teisco Del Ray, or an Alamo Fiesta...)

he would still sound good.
It's talent, it's work, but it's sure as hell not knob settings, or pedals, or the amplifier.:pound-hand::pound-hand:
Click to expand...

I think I'm more comfortable with certain pieces of gear...Marshall amps, especially the models with a 'Contour' control...my Les Paul...Yellow Stratocaster...

Last night, I was totally flabbergasted and mind boggled by @Don O's Kemper!!!
 
Robert Herndon said:
Yes,

None of the The Mesa's had enough gain to give me a percussive attack, even though the TS-9 tightened them up considerably. When I say "percussive," I'm talking about actually getting what feels and sounds like speaker movement.

@Don O heard this tonight when I dialed up a tone on his DSL40C. I could get a solid thump on the DSL40C, yet still had enough gain to push the midrange up in front.

When you push the Mesa's, they do have a very cutting midrange - and this is good - but their tone stack won't allow you to augment that with enough bass to make it round and full.

The Mesa's sound like an AM radio. Biting midrange, but no real balls behind it, no matter how they were EQ'd.

In contrast, my 8200 through a 2x12 cabinet has a searing, chain-saw midrange edge (think Rhoad's tone on "Flying High Again) that is coupled with a massive upper low-end thump that will make your nose run at elevated volume levels, with complete clarity.

When dialed in correctly, it's reminiscent of Zakk Wylde’s rhythm tone on "No More Tears," but with added midrange edge.

I do not think the Mesa's are "bad," it's just I like a multidimensional tone that I can't get with them.
Click to expand...
I find the graphic makes up for this. At least for me.
Just curious.
 
Jethro Rocker said:
I find the graphic makes up for this. At least for me.
Just curious.
Click to expand...

Same here, for sure. I certainly can't concieve of a scenario where a Mark 5 doesn't have enough gain for any musical style, no matter how extreme (they are, after all a favorite Metal amp) - I'm pretty certain they have the most gain available of any Mesa amp. And my experience is that through the correct cab using the EQ they have enough punch to knock your fillings out. I even switched over to using an open-back instead of closed-back cab because I intentionally wanted to soften the low end so it wouldn't sound so prominent when I play with a bass player.
 
gball said:
Same here, for sure. I certainly can't concieve of a scenario where a Mark 5 doesn't have enough gain for any musical style, no matter how extreme (they are, after all a favorite Metal amp) - I'm pretty certain they have the most gain available of any Mesa amp. And my experience is that through the correct cab using the EQ they have enough punch to knock your fillings out. I even switched over to using an open-back instead of closed-back cab because I intentionally wanted to soften the low end so it wouldn't sound so prominent when I play with a bass player.
Click to expand...

I played a Mark 5 through the matching, closed back cab.

Most bass players I find myself working with are very mid-rangey.

I'll take all that low end I can get.
 
Jethro Rocker said:
I gotta ask.
The Badlander had the MOST gain but still needed a TS9 even after playing a Mk V 35? Cause my 35 is loaded with gain and sure doesn't need an upfront boost. Doesn't get muddy, the graphic gives it some real oomph and the first channel with that mid boost feature really cooks.
You felt it needed a TS9 up front? Not judging just asking.
Mine is a killer little amp.
Click to expand...

The way Mesa manipulates their tone stack keeps you from getting what you want and instead, you get what the engineers allow you to have.

The real light bulb moment was when I read how they designed the amp to reduce low end response. The manual states "Internal switching that revoices the frequency and amount of bass present for each circuit..."

Now, when i played through a YJM-100, I felt like the engineers made it just for me.
 
Robert Herndon said:
I played a Mark 5 through the matching, closed back cab.

Most bass players I find myself working with are very mid-rangey.

I'll take all that low end I can get.
Click to expand...

And I can see that the sound of a Mark 5 may not be for you. They have a unique thing and don't sound like anything else; instead of that ripsaw kind of sound that, say a Recto or a lot of Marshalls have, they have a more liquid, singing kind of gain that may not be what you or someone else is looking for. Was just commenting though that the amount of gain they have on tap is pretty absurd. I've not run across many amps that can compete with a Mark 5 for the sheee amount of gain, but of course the nature of that gain can be quite different.
 
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