AI generated "Music"
- Thread starter TVvoodoo
- Start date
How is that actually possible? Do you mean that The Monkeys(or Hendrix, or whoever) actually got paid every time I butchered Stepping Stone at the pool hall? Or is it more likely that those fees(if BMI and ASCAP actually collected them from said venues) were actually distributed in some way to artists of their(BMI/ASCAP) determination…I mean…first off you’d actually have to recognize the slop I was slinging in dive bars for decades.
ibmorjamn
Ambassador of Moar Jammin
Suno is getting me more motivated to learn the riffs it created (or stole from 1500 songs) how is that helpful? There are some damn tough riffs way above my dreams. Stuff I just can’t do no matter how hard I try.
I downloaded stems and right away I learned a few tricks about the seperate mix levels.
I downloaded stems and right away I learned a few tricks about the seperate mix levels.
OP
TVvoodoo
Ambassador of The Comfortably Slung
Mr. Seamus (and other pooh-poohers) may look at this sort of music "generation" as pure happenstance, slot machine... which is quite wondrous for use for raw discovery - and that's how the lowest grade slop is cooked. I, however am a little more interested in higher grade slop LOL! The thing most detactors don't WANT to understand, is how much closer to traditional creation... it can become... you can put an IMMENSE amount of intent behind what you wish to generate via a plethra highly detailed prompts, which I am only beginning to explore and understand, and are being discovered day by day.
It is truly mind blowing/expanding : Prompt tags
I look at as not theft, but more like the ability to collabg with the most highly skilled, most talented musicians, engineers, producers (etc.) that have ever lived, and I've barely scratched the surface on the controls available.
Since I'm to OP i reserve the right to drop samples LOL! - whether you care to listen or not, but just trying to open your mind a teeny crack.
More than half the fun is the pure surprise when you juxtapose your say, darker lyrics with say dream pop for example
And if you don't like that, why not try a pop punk version?
I could go on. So, that above was about 40% my lyrics/tweaking, 60% asking AI for a song rough-out. I removed about half what it gave me, rearranged it, tightened it, sharpened it. There's still one clunky rhyme in there, but this was a 20 minute job more to show you how FAST this is to generate quick musical ideas. Not saying it is in any way genius, but pretty damn satisfying for about a half hour of work, and I hardly used any prompts, or made a lot of stabs at it.
One more case in point: last night I took one of my so amateurly-produced originals as I've said, I do consider myself a bit of a songwriter, way less of a musician, and hardly/barely any kind of technician. This is pretty much what I can do. brace yourself.
Now, last night I dropped the whole shebang into Suno, generated four stabs at it.
This was my favorite take.
I'd love to work with it more, spend a lot more TIME on it... but you see, I'm nearly 60 years old. I'm 100% running out of it! Not a whole lot of it left to woodshed guitar, bass, synths, violins etc... hire bands, singers or learn how to produce songs, figure out the immense amount of tech inside my DAW.
I find it frustrating spending 2 hours programming a drum track, and I'm in no way a skilled drummer. Or playing bass etc. Perhaps YOU have all those skills and infinited time/people at your disposal. Congratulations! I'm just using this very available tool to enjoy music almost as much as I have in my entire life. The only thing that might top if for me is playing inside a combo again, but that likely will not happen. And, those groups almost always just end up wanting to play old mellancamp or whatever songs, don't want to collaborate on any new material, and usually it ends up as drinking parties. I've had plenty enough of that. For right or wrong, I want to work on what I perceive as my OWN music, in collaboration with AI tools available
Thousands upon thousands of future forward actual musicians in all genres, likely more skilled than even yourself are using Suno right now, downloading stems, tweaking them, using it for inspiration, bouncing off ideas. Meanwhile you are... what? bitter and angry.
Don't be a gatekeeper - if your are telling ME lesser talented/skilled people such as myself have no business dinking around, or dare I say "creating" cuts? I disagree. What musical discoveries have YOU made in the past 12 hours you are able to share?
I've just shared mine
It is truly mind blowing/expanding : Prompt tags
I look at as not theft, but more like the ability to collabg with the most highly skilled, most talented musicians, engineers, producers (etc.) that have ever lived, and I've barely scratched the surface on the controls available.
Since I'm to OP i reserve the right to drop samples LOL! - whether you care to listen or not, but just trying to open your mind a teeny crack.
More than half the fun is the pure surprise when you juxtapose your say, darker lyrics with say dream pop for example
And if you don't like that, why not try a pop punk version?
I could go on. So, that above was about 40% my lyrics/tweaking, 60% asking AI for a song rough-out. I removed about half what it gave me, rearranged it, tightened it, sharpened it. There's still one clunky rhyme in there, but this was a 20 minute job more to show you how FAST this is to generate quick musical ideas. Not saying it is in any way genius, but pretty damn satisfying for about a half hour of work, and I hardly used any prompts, or made a lot of stabs at it.
One more case in point: last night I took one of my so amateurly-produced originals as I've said, I do consider myself a bit of a songwriter, way less of a musician, and hardly/barely any kind of technician. This is pretty much what I can do. brace yourself.
Now, last night I dropped the whole shebang into Suno, generated four stabs at it.
This was my favorite take.
I'd love to work with it more, spend a lot more TIME on it... but you see, I'm nearly 60 years old. I'm 100% running out of it! Not a whole lot of it left to woodshed guitar, bass, synths, violins etc... hire bands, singers or learn how to produce songs, figure out the immense amount of tech inside my DAW.
I find it frustrating spending 2 hours programming a drum track, and I'm in no way a skilled drummer. Or playing bass etc. Perhaps YOU have all those skills and infinited time/people at your disposal. Congratulations! I'm just using this very available tool to enjoy music almost as much as I have in my entire life. The only thing that might top if for me is playing inside a combo again, but that likely will not happen. And, those groups almost always just end up wanting to play old mellancamp or whatever songs, don't want to collaborate on any new material, and usually it ends up as drinking parties. I've had plenty enough of that. For right or wrong, I want to work on what I perceive as my OWN music, in collaboration with AI tools available
Thousands upon thousands of future forward actual musicians in all genres, likely more skilled than even yourself are using Suno right now, downloading stems, tweaking them, using it for inspiration, bouncing off ideas. Meanwhile you are... what? bitter and angry.
Don't be a gatekeeper - if your are telling ME lesser talented/skilled people such as myself have no business dinking around, or dare I say "creating" cuts? I disagree. What musical discoveries have YOU made in the past 12 hours you are able to share?
I've just shared mine
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ibmorjamn
Ambassador of Moar Jammin
Exactly. My perspective is I don’t need to be right but I also don’t need someone else’s anger, guilt or sadness.Mr. Seamus (and other pooh-poohers) may look at this sort of music "generation" as pure happenstance, slot machine... which is quite wondrous for use for raw discovery - and that's how the lowest grade slop is cooked. I, however am a little more interested in higher grade slop LOL! The thing most detactors don't WANT to understand, is how much closer to traditional creation... it can become... you can put an IMMENSE amount of intent behind what you wish to generate via a plethra highly detailed prompts, which I am only beginning to explore and understand, and are being discovered day by day.
It is truly mind blowing/expanding : Prompt tags
I look at as not theft, but more like the ability to collabg with the most highly skilled, most talented musicians, engineers, producers (etc.) that have ever lived, and I've barely scratched the surface on the controls available.
Since I'm to OP i reserve the right to drop samples LOL! - whether you care to listen or not, but just trying to open your mind a teeny crack.
More than half the fun is the pure surprise when you juxtapose your say, darker lyrics with say dream pop for example
And if you don't like that, why not try a pop punk version?
I could go on. So, that above was about 40% my lyrics/tweaking, 60% asking AI for a song rough-out. I removed about half what it gave me, rearranged it, tightened it, sharpened it. There's still one clunky rhyme in there, but this was a 20 minute job more to show you how FAST this is to generate quick musical ideas. Not saying it is in any way genius, but pretty damn satisfying for about a half hour of work, and I hardly used any prompts, or made a lot of stabs at it.
One more case in point: last night I took one of my so amateurly-produced originals as I've said, I do consider myself a bit of a songwriter, way less of a musician, and hardly/barely any kind of technician. This is pretty much what I can do. brace yourself.
Now, last night I dropped the whole shebang into Suno, generated four stabs at it.
This was my favorite take.
I'd love to work with it more, spend a lot more TIME on it... but you see, I'm nearly 60 years old. I'm 100% running out of it! Not a whole lot of it left to woodshed guitar, bass, synths, violins etc... hire bands, singers or learn how to produce songs, figure out the immense amount of tech inside my DAW.
I find it frustrating spending 2 hours programming a drum track, and I'm in no way a skilled drummer. Or playing bass etc. Perhaps YOU have all those skills and infinited time/people at your disposal. Congratulations! I'm just using this very available tool to enjoy music almost as much as I have in my entire life. The only thing that might top if for me is playing inside a combo again, but that likely will not happen. And, those groups almost always just end up wanting to play old mellancamp or whatever songs, don't want to collaborate on any new material, and usually it ends up as drinking parties. I've had plenty enough of that. For right or wrong, I want to work on what I perceive as my OWN music, in collaboration with AI tools available
Thousands upon thousands of future forward actual musicians in all genres, likely more skilled than even yourself are using Suno right now, downloading stems, tweaking them, using it for inspiration, bouncing off ideas. Meanwhile you are... what? bitter and angry.
Don't be a gatekeeper - if your are telling ME lesser talented/skilled people such as myself have no business dinking around, or dare I say "creatinve" music? I disagree. What musical discoveries have YOU made in the past 12 hours you are able to share?
I've just shared mine
What Bobby said “ don’t worry, be happy”
Suno is a helping hand to lead you along the way, you can’t get help from anyone else.
Alright…yes…I just watched that, in its entirety.
The last ten minutes or so was pretty gut wrenching to me. I am sad for him, and others…many others…that are in or near his position. Think of John Williams being told to hang it up in ‘73, because the machine can do it more efficiently. No Close Encounters, Jaws, Star Wars soundtracks by him. The pieces that he would/could contribute to the public consciousness would never be. Well here it is…on a platter…for sale….yearly subscription rates are best value…
I mean, that’s where I think he’s coming from, at least in part. He also touches on the possible manipulative uses…etc…
How long before, I don’t even know what to call it anymore, TV and movie production (?) moves away from humanity completely?
He had to pay a subscription fee to learn, show us, what is going to effectively replace his life’s work…
This is “sliced bread”.
This is “paradigm shift”.
We are using it as a muse…while we are working for it…teaching it.
Feeding the beast that may(will) eventually erase our relevance.
To be clear, I am not a pooh-pooher … I am horrified, and mildly amazed.
ibmorjamn
Ambassador of Moar Jammin
Honestly , like I said, for me everything music dreams are made of died with Randy Rhoads . I mean yes , there is some new and exciting music but what I devoured as intellectual inspiring NWOBHM has come and gone.
In its wake it has left multiple genres and sub genres of metal music.
I guess where I’m going is, it’s all been done and now as me being an amateur fan of music I can just grasp a piece. It is sad as Neil said “sadder still to watch it die than never to have known it”
It’s a tool, maybe not shiny like snap-on. More like a rototiller. lol
It may go way beyond that.
It may be only one aspect of it.
Seamus OReally
Well-Known Member
I don’t want stop you from using Suno. I want to realize that when you do:
1. You’re giving up on your own potential.
2. You’re ripping off more talented musicians.
3. You’re making a little man shovel dollars into a flaming data center.
Have fun with it now, because someday the investors are going to demand a return, and then they’ll start charging for it. And it’s gonna cost bigly.
ibmorjamn
Ambassador of Moar Jammin
There are a lot more talented musicians than me using it. Although I don’t know what their motives are for being in commercials (pay day) I am very insignificant in the bigger picture. My potential now is much smaller than it was 20 years ago. Age is taking aim at my joints.
They are charging for it. I have a 1 month sub. Should have got a year.
Oh and most of those talented musicians ripped off someone else without paying.
For instance , Chuck Berry sued The Beach Boys and won. So on and so forth. What was it Ritchie Blackmore said about the riff from Smoke on the Water ? Classical influences.
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mcblink
Ambassador of Riffs & Spliffs
Honestly, regarding AI, "theft" of music is amongst the least of my worries about it. Human generated music is also "trained" on existing work, if you think about it. We just call it "influence". We, too, "scrape" the body of already existing work, knowingly or not; what we consume shapes our creative output. Remember when Stairway to Heaven plagiarized Taurus? Or when Enter Sandman stole from Excel? Yeah, me neither. Likewise, I have yet to hear AI literally plagiarize anything, anymore than I heard Page and Plant plagiarize Spirit. What I do hear is generic crap that sounds a lot like the stuff it was fed and "trained" on.
Things I do worry about with AI:
The circular investing of obscene money between 7 companies and the effects it could have on the global economy should the house of cards fall. Right now, they look as if they're playing a game of hot potato.
The energy and infrastructure requirements aren't yet feasible. Not 20 miles from my home, there is a nuclear fusion power plant, known as Orion, currently under construction by Helion Energy specifically to deliver power to Microsoft datacenters in the area, where I used to work. 20 some odd years ago we had some of the cheapest hydropower in the nation, and had so much of it that we were supplying power all over the western part of North America. This attracted server farms. Lots of them. Now there's no surplus power to sell, and the rates have skyrocketed. Datacenters use a small amount of energy relative to what is required to run AI. I'm not sure how I feel about nuclear yet. Lab grown diamond semiconductors may help, but producing those is also expensive, energy wise.
Really, AI has already taken over. We don't get a say. What I mean by that, is even if we don't like or want it, it has become a necessary evil, in the same way the nuclear arms race was. It's not something we can stop now.
So as far as theft of music, whatever. Least of my worries about it. I play and write music for me, because it's a hobby, a passion, something I love to do just for the sake of doing it. I don't get paid to create it and I don't do it for other people. I don't look at my creations as a commodity, something to be bought and sold. As a result, AI does not threaten me or make me feel insecure about my abilities. I used to worry about that, but I think there's more pressing issues with it.
It's all the other aspects of it that actually do threaten all of us that make me worry about it
Things I do worry about with AI:
The circular investing of obscene money between 7 companies and the effects it could have on the global economy should the house of cards fall. Right now, they look as if they're playing a game of hot potato.
The energy and infrastructure requirements aren't yet feasible. Not 20 miles from my home, there is a nuclear fusion power plant, known as Orion, currently under construction by Helion Energy specifically to deliver power to Microsoft datacenters in the area, where I used to work. 20 some odd years ago we had some of the cheapest hydropower in the nation, and had so much of it that we were supplying power all over the western part of North America. This attracted server farms. Lots of them. Now there's no surplus power to sell, and the rates have skyrocketed. Datacenters use a small amount of energy relative to what is required to run AI. I'm not sure how I feel about nuclear yet. Lab grown diamond semiconductors may help, but producing those is also expensive, energy wise.
Really, AI has already taken over. We don't get a say. What I mean by that, is even if we don't like or want it, it has become a necessary evil, in the same way the nuclear arms race was. It's not something we can stop now.
So as far as theft of music, whatever. Least of my worries about it. I play and write music for me, because it's a hobby, a passion, something I love to do just for the sake of doing it. I don't get paid to create it and I don't do it for other people. I don't look at my creations as a commodity, something to be bought and sold. As a result, AI does not threaten me or make me feel insecure about my abilities. I used to worry about that, but I think there's more pressing issues with it.
It's all the other aspects of it that actually do threaten all of us that make me worry about it
Now that’s some funny $hizz.if you don't like that, why not try a pop punk version?
Kerry Brown
Ambassador of the Great Northern Bar Jams
To make music organically is very hard to even get a decent product. Using Suno it's easy to get a pretty good product. I tried Suno. I won't use it. For me it's the joy of creating, not the end product. If we get a lot of Suno songs in the Orpheum challenge I'll be dropping out. I love creating but I'm not talented enough to compete at the pretty good level. Personally I think AI generated music lacks soul. It sounds good but it lacks something.
BFT Gibson
Ambassador of Originality
Think it's hilarious that i am doing 10 original songs right now again in a row on a concept theme with my gear. Business as usual over here, Inspiration, Marshall 2204 cranked into 4x12. with a mic on the cab. One difference this time, going mix and master it all, so a new skill to learn to further enjoy the music making process. Always just captured them and left em be. Orpheass challenge is motivating me to go right at it !!
OP
TVvoodoo
Ambassador of The Comfortably Slung
@kerry. It's NOT a competition in any way shape of form except against yourself.
NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. NO. It's NOT
You are only competing in tackling what is a monstrous personal project to see if you can do it.
I wonder if any of us will be able to see it through, even WITH AI.
@Kerry Brown listen, tell me this lacks soul
NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. NO. It's NOT
You are only competing in tackling what is a monstrous personal project to see if you can do it.
I wonder if any of us will be able to see it through, even WITH AI.
@Kerry Brown listen, tell me this lacks soul
BFT Gibson
Ambassador of Originality
Clarifying, AI actually just made me dig in 1 more time to see what i can do on my own with my gear, Actually, the Orpheus game thing(not participating - but letting it motivate me), exposed i need to learn to mix and master. I mostly just enjoy writing and recording the songs and see them played in the band in front of people live, I want to see if i can mix and master on the level now of a pro product. Watched old school recording vids for a few weeks now & have some simple things to help arriving this week.
My rules are, i play all, except i cant do the drums the best yet, do make the original beat on my kit then go match it with EZ. there is some of my drum stuff mixed in sometimes with EZ. So i will use drums from EZ. I semi retire & so does my drummer next year. learning recording drums is high on the list. Everything, i mean everything starts and builds on the drums. All these songs, its always drums set up in REAPER done or i wont record . It forces structure, flow & a commitment to the song. It actually book ends your creative process for you. With the time signature & up and down emotion laid down for the foundation to sit everything on and build the layer cake. This time going to sort the layer cake out properly lol
My rules are, i play all, except i cant do the drums the best yet, do make the original beat on my kit then go match it with EZ. there is some of my drum stuff mixed in sometimes with EZ. So i will use drums from EZ. I semi retire & so does my drummer next year. learning recording drums is high on the list. Everything, i mean everything starts and builds on the drums. All these songs, its always drums set up in REAPER done or i wont record . It forces structure, flow & a commitment to the song. It actually book ends your creative process for you. With the time signature & up and down emotion laid down for the foundation to sit everything on and build the layer cake. This time going to sort the layer cake out properly lol
mcblink
Ambassador of Riffs & Spliffs
It always will. A musician can convey a lot of feeling with one single note. Try to get a computer to convey that same feeling with a single note, and you get something not quite all there. The computer doesn't feel. It's cold and mathematical.
That's really what I meant when I posted Data and his poem about his cat Spot. Sure, the words rhyme, but that doesn't make it poetry.