I find that video pretty persuasive.
What Happened to Gibson Guitars?
- Thread starter chilipeppermaniac
- Start date
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
This continues to be confusing for me. I went to Canada's Long & McQuade's website and set up an account and did a fake order for the Gibson LP: $1899 CDN + $247 HST (Taxes) = $2146 CDN = $1578 USD… Of coarse I would have to be in Canada to buy it at this price.
But if I order from Sweetwater, and have it shipped for free from Indiana to California: $1699 + No Tax = $1699 USD.
I don't understand how this Gibson could be cheaper to buy in Canada. Am I missing something here?
Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
Its cheaper for you purchasing because you are buying in U.S currency , a U.S. dollar is valued at $125 Canadian. When using Canadian currency here to buy the guitar its not cheaper for us. American tax laws and possibly duties are the difference as well. That's what I am thinking.
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Makes me wonder if he thought of it like one might think of playing a nice like able 1996 Les Paul Standard today.
Perhaps it’s one of those MAP pricing things, where they are forced to price to what the geographical market will bear.
Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
Mr Grumpy
Ambassador of Comings and Goings
I'm sure that we all agree that the better or worse argument makes no sense. Actually, I don't think the better value argument makes any sense either in most cases because value links to, for me, time spent playing and enjoyment.
I generally compare guitars that I've owned, and I had these two at the same time (the PRS cost about $450 and the Gibson around $650 - both new):
I loved the look of the PRS, it sounded good when I put a Bare Knuckle puppy in it (bringing the cost close to that of the Gibson), but after a few weeks of owning both I simply never played the PRS because the Gibson, to me, sounded better, played better and was more fun to play. To me, the Gibson was much better value - &, I've heard this argument again and again from folks who've owned something like a Gibson faded and PRS SE.
I had a $1000+ Fender which I loved the look of, upgraded the pickups to the CS Fender pickups, so the guitar cost close to my SG Junior.
(OK, it was wrong handed, but it looked great, a MIJ double-bound tele - it has to be great, right?)
If you cost out the case at $200 then the Gibson was not more expensive, probably cheaper, but, to me, is a superior guitar in every way - miles and miles better, for me.
Spending $600-1500 on Gibsons, I've personally not found anything else that compares equally with them. I never planned on owning Gibsons over other brands, I love the look of the PRS and Fender, and think the LP junior and telecaster guitars are fantastic options - over the years, I've actually owned more Fenders than Gibsons, but the two best guitars I've owned, the two best value guitars (due to my enjoyment and playing time on them) are my now sold Gibson Faded and the SG junior.
If a Godin or a Fender or an Epi works for you, and is best value for you then that's right.; I certainly wouldn't argue against that.
What I noticed when I bought the SG junior was endless online folks saying they were over-priced, but none of those folks had ever played one; I've not heard of somebody who bought one who sent it back or doesn't love it, and there are lots of reviews out there now. Gibson gets trashed left right and centre, but they (certainly the SGs which I tend to see as comparable to Strats) are cheaper than the USA made equivalents.
Blimey, I'm coming off as a Gibson fanboy now...
I generally compare guitars that I've owned, and I had these two at the same time (the PRS cost about $450 and the Gibson around $650 - both new):
I loved the look of the PRS, it sounded good when I put a Bare Knuckle puppy in it (bringing the cost close to that of the Gibson), but after a few weeks of owning both I simply never played the PRS because the Gibson, to me, sounded better, played better and was more fun to play. To me, the Gibson was much better value - &, I've heard this argument again and again from folks who've owned something like a Gibson faded and PRS SE.
I had a $1000+ Fender which I loved the look of, upgraded the pickups to the CS Fender pickups, so the guitar cost close to my SG Junior.
(OK, it was wrong handed, but it looked great, a MIJ double-bound tele - it has to be great, right?)
If you cost out the case at $200 then the Gibson was not more expensive, probably cheaper, but, to me, is a superior guitar in every way - miles and miles better, for me.
Spending $600-1500 on Gibsons, I've personally not found anything else that compares equally with them. I never planned on owning Gibsons over other brands, I love the look of the PRS and Fender, and think the LP junior and telecaster guitars are fantastic options - over the years, I've actually owned more Fenders than Gibsons, but the two best guitars I've owned, the two best value guitars (due to my enjoyment and playing time on them) are my now sold Gibson Faded and the SG junior.
If a Godin or a Fender or an Epi works for you, and is best value for you then that's right.; I certainly wouldn't argue against that.
What I noticed when I bought the SG junior was endless online folks saying they were over-priced, but none of those folks had ever played one; I've not heard of somebody who bought one who sent it back or doesn't love it, and there are lots of reviews out there now. Gibson gets trashed left right and centre, but they (certainly the SGs which I tend to see as comparable to Strats) are cheaper than the USA made equivalents.
Blimey, I'm coming off as a Gibson fanboy now...
Gahr
Ambassador of Blues & Brews
That junior sure is a beauty!I'm sure that we all agree that the better or worse argument makes no sense. Actually, I don't think the better value argument makes any sense either in most cases because value links to, for me, time spent playing and enjoyment.
I generally compare guitars that I've owned, and I had these two at the same time (the PRS cost about $450 and the Gibson around $650 - both new):
View attachment 20353
I loved the look of the PRS, it sounded good when I put a Bare Knuckle puppy in it (bringing the cost close to that of the Gibson), but after a few weeks of owning both I simply never played the PRS because the Gibson, to me, sounded better, played better and was more fun to play. To me, the Gibson was much better value - &, I've heard this argument again and again from folks who've owned something like a Gibson faded and PRS SE.
I had a $1000+ Fender which I loved the look of, upgraded the pickups to the CS Fender pickups, so the guitar cost close to my SG Junior.
View attachment 20354
View attachment 20355
View attachment 20356
(OK, it was wrong handed, but it looked great, a MIJ double-bound tele - it has to be great, right?)
View attachment 20357
If you cost out the case at $200 then the Gibson was not more expensive, probably cheaper, but, to me, is a superior guitar in every way - miles and miles better, for me.
Spending $600-1500 on Gibsons, I've personally not found anything else that compares equally with them. I never planned on owning Gibsons over other brands, I love the look of the PRS and Fender, and think the LP junior and telecaster guitars are fantastic options - over the years, I've actually owned more Fenders than Gibsons, but the two best guitars I've owned, the two best value guitars (due to my enjoyment and playing time on them) are my now sold Gibson Faded and the SG junior.
If a Godin or a Fender or an Epi works for you, and is best value for you then that's right.; I certainly wouldn't argue against that.
What I noticed when I bought the SG junior was endless online folks saying they were over-priced, but none of those folks had ever played one; I've not heard of somebody who bought one who sent it back or doesn't love it, and there are lots of reviews out there now. Gibson gets trashed left right and centre, but they (certainly the SGs which I tend to see as comparable to Strats) are cheaper than the USA made equivalents.
Blimey, I'm coming off as a Gibson fanboy now...
Not a rant, but a very objective evaluation based on my experiences with Gibson's.
As a kid growing up in a recording studio, Gibson was always the benchmark in quality. I recall wanting to save up to buy a Gibson, like many of my peers. Over the years, based on my personal experience of buying (5) brand new Gibson's, experiences of others herein, reviews on Sweetwater, etc., that Gibson has had some quality control issues. Both my 2016 Les Paul 50's Tribute and 2016 Les Paul Studio T had issues that would have required fretboard re-contouring and fretwork to correct. However, I believe that the more hand-building (and subjectivity of the Luthier) that goes into a guitar, the more potential for variation in quality you will have and, conversely, the less hand-building you have in a guitar - and the more reliance on CNC machining - the less variation in quality you will see. I believe this is one reason so many of the imported guitars have much more consistent build quality.
Now, I wanted a genuine Gibson SG. My 2003 Standard was a decent guitar as far as build quality was concerned, but the un-shielded/un-potted nature of that guitar made it completely unusable in a live performance setting. My 2003 letter to Gibson's Nicholas Chemsak and my 2017 letter (regarding the same problems with my 2016 Gibson SG) cited nearly identical issues and all were related to radio stations playing through the guitars, buzzing/humming, squealing at high volumes and a static electricity effect that caused audible pops and 'scratchiness' to be transmitted through the amp when the guitar is touched.
Not a dealbreaker, but a real hassle. My 2016 SG required full shielding, different pickups and a wire harness before it was usable as a working musician's instrument. When I attempted to shield with the PCB, I still had noise and I believe this is not the fault of the PCB - which I think is actually a really good idea - but rather the 'hot' solder points on the back of the PCB which punch into the wood of the guitar and/or press up against the shielding, even when insulated with paper or tape.
I wanted a genuine Gibson Les Paul. I bought 2 of them before Adrian found me my 2016 50's Tribute (Fat Neck) at Matt's Music. It's a great guitar, other than the buzz/hum and tendency to squeal. Again, this is an un-shielded guitar with un-potted pickups, so it's an easy fix, but am I a little resentful that I have to make those modifications to my new Gibson's??? Yes, and I really do think that Gibson should shield and pot everything other than a historic as standard operating procedure.
Where I live and where I work, there are major issues with RFI/EMI in the studios - and in the general environment. This may not be a problem for someone - let's just say - in Utah - but it's a big deal down here and it really limits my ability to use my Les Paul more often.
When I put a Gibson 500T/496R in my fully shielded 1987 Squirecaster, it became my most quiet - and my highest output guitar. Completely impervious to buzz, hum or squeal, I can stand in front of any of my amps at stage volume and have zero issues. This has become a greater benchmark for me - in recent months - than having a genuine Gibson. When I plug in a $249.00 Jackson import that doesn't squeal, buzz or hum - at all - zero - and I plug in a 2017 ($3,499.00) Gibson Les Paul Custom through the same amp in Guitar Sinner and it buzzes, hums, crackles, pops and plays KFROG 95.1 FM, it does really disappoint me.
I think Gibson is still a premier guitar by reputation, but I also think the days of just pulling one off the rack, and getting one that is 100% useable, (for a working musician) may be over. That's not to say there are not shining examples of Gibson quality out there right now, today, but if I landed in England for a performance, and my Gibson's landed somewhere else, I would feel 100% comfortable grabbing any Jackson or Schecter right off the rack and walking straight-away out onto a stage.
I suppose that I expect Gibson to be - at the very least - on par with that level of utility value, even in a $700.00 - $800.00 model, and instead I find myself investing another $400-$500 in each of my Gibson's to get them up to the noise control level that I get from a $249.00 Jackson. I must admit that I do find this a bit disappointing to say the least....
As a kid growing up in a recording studio, Gibson was always the benchmark in quality. I recall wanting to save up to buy a Gibson, like many of my peers. Over the years, based on my personal experience of buying (5) brand new Gibson's, experiences of others herein, reviews on Sweetwater, etc., that Gibson has had some quality control issues. Both my 2016 Les Paul 50's Tribute and 2016 Les Paul Studio T had issues that would have required fretboard re-contouring and fretwork to correct. However, I believe that the more hand-building (and subjectivity of the Luthier) that goes into a guitar, the more potential for variation in quality you will have and, conversely, the less hand-building you have in a guitar - and the more reliance on CNC machining - the less variation in quality you will see. I believe this is one reason so many of the imported guitars have much more consistent build quality.
Now, I wanted a genuine Gibson SG. My 2003 Standard was a decent guitar as far as build quality was concerned, but the un-shielded/un-potted nature of that guitar made it completely unusable in a live performance setting. My 2003 letter to Gibson's Nicholas Chemsak and my 2017 letter (regarding the same problems with my 2016 Gibson SG) cited nearly identical issues and all were related to radio stations playing through the guitars, buzzing/humming, squealing at high volumes and a static electricity effect that caused audible pops and 'scratchiness' to be transmitted through the amp when the guitar is touched.
Not a dealbreaker, but a real hassle. My 2016 SG required full shielding, different pickups and a wire harness before it was usable as a working musician's instrument. When I attempted to shield with the PCB, I still had noise and I believe this is not the fault of the PCB - which I think is actually a really good idea - but rather the 'hot' solder points on the back of the PCB which punch into the wood of the guitar and/or press up against the shielding, even when insulated with paper or tape.
I wanted a genuine Gibson Les Paul. I bought 2 of them before Adrian found me my 2016 50's Tribute (Fat Neck) at Matt's Music. It's a great guitar, other than the buzz/hum and tendency to squeal. Again, this is an un-shielded guitar with un-potted pickups, so it's an easy fix, but am I a little resentful that I have to make those modifications to my new Gibson's??? Yes, and I really do think that Gibson should shield and pot everything other than a historic as standard operating procedure.
Where I live and where I work, there are major issues with RFI/EMI in the studios - and in the general environment. This may not be a problem for someone - let's just say - in Utah - but it's a big deal down here and it really limits my ability to use my Les Paul more often.
When I put a Gibson 500T/496R in my fully shielded 1987 Squirecaster, it became my most quiet - and my highest output guitar. Completely impervious to buzz, hum or squeal, I can stand in front of any of my amps at stage volume and have zero issues. This has become a greater benchmark for me - in recent months - than having a genuine Gibson. When I plug in a $249.00 Jackson import that doesn't squeal, buzz or hum - at all - zero - and I plug in a 2017 ($3,499.00) Gibson Les Paul Custom through the same amp in Guitar Sinner and it buzzes, hums, crackles, pops and plays KFROG 95.1 FM, it does really disappoint me.
I think Gibson is still a premier guitar by reputation, but I also think the days of just pulling one off the rack, and getting one that is 100% useable, (for a working musician) may be over. That's not to say there are not shining examples of Gibson quality out there right now, today, but if I landed in England for a performance, and my Gibson's landed somewhere else, I would feel 100% comfortable grabbing any Jackson or Schecter right off the rack and walking straight-away out onto a stage.
I suppose that I expect Gibson to be - at the very least - on par with that level of utility value, even in a $700.00 - $800.00 model, and instead I find myself investing another $400-$500 in each of my Gibson's to get them up to the noise control level that I get from a $249.00 Jackson. I must admit that I do find this a bit disappointing to say the least....
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eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
To respond to Roberts post ---- Ive experienced that Gibson/Jackson thing---but the Gibbo was picking up police band radio not the Frog--
I also have 2 (and have had other) 250.00 or less Jacksons at present........and -- well YOUR RIGHT
this was 243.00 delivered-- factory "return" demo model or something discounted---
straight out of the box with minimal adjustments--plays sound and works flawlessy --hung on the wall for 2 weeks-- grabbed it Friday evening for a noodle -- still in perfect tune---
Jackson Adrian Smith "Superstrat" with Floyd (yep Smitty its a FACTORY FLOYD)
The OTHER Factory Floyd loaded Jackson was purchased used
Soloist Light Lithe Fast---with active EMGs........its a SHredd Machine of EPIC proportion--craigslist score 250.00
I also have 2 (and have had other) 250.00 or less Jacksons at present........and -- well YOUR RIGHT
this was 243.00 delivered-- factory "return" demo model or something discounted---
straight out of the box with minimal adjustments--plays sound and works flawlessy --hung on the wall for 2 weeks-- grabbed it Friday evening for a noodle -- still in perfect tune---
Jackson Adrian Smith "Superstrat" with Floyd (yep Smitty its a FACTORY FLOYD)
The OTHER Factory Floyd loaded Jackson was purchased used
Soloist Light Lithe Fast---with active EMGs........its a SHredd Machine of EPIC proportion--craigslist score 250.00
To respond to Roberts post ---- Ive experienced that Gibson/Jackson thing---but the Gibbo was picking up police band radio not the Frog--
I also have 2 (and have had other) 250.00 or less Jacksons at present........and -- well YOUR RIGHT
this was 243.00 delivered-- factory "return" demo model or something discounted---
straight out of the box with minimal adjustments--plays sound and works flawlessy --hung on the wall for 2 weeks-- grabbed it Friday evening for a noodle -- still in perfect tune---
Jackson Adrian Smith "Superstrat" with Floyd (yep Smitty its a FACTORY FLOYD)
View attachment 20377
The OTHER Factory Floyd loaded Jackson was purchased used
Soloist Light Lithe Fast---with active EMGs........its a SHredd Machine of EPIC proportion--craigslist score 250.00
WHEN did you get an Adrian Smith Jackson????
Don't laugh....but the song that got EVERYBODY up and on their feet - fist pumping and head banging tonight- was Poison's 'Nuthin But a Good Tiime....'