What Happened to Gibson Guitars?

Robert Herndon said:
Not a rant, but a very objective evaluation based on my experiences with Gibson's.

As a kid growing up in a recording studio, Gibson was always the benchmark in quality. I recall wanting to save up to buy a Gibson, like many of my peers. Over the years, based on my personal experience of buying (5) brand new Gibson's, experiences of others herein, reviews on Sweetwater, etc., that Gibson has had some quality control issues. Both my 2016 Les Paul 50's Tribute and 2016 Les Paul Studio T had issues that would have required fretboard re-contouring and fretwork to correct. However, I believe that the more hand-building (and subjectivity of the Luthier) that goes into a guitar, the more potential for variation in quality you will have and, conversely, the less hand-building you have in a guitar - and the more reliance on CNC machining - the less variation in quality you will see. I believe this is one reason so many of the imported guitars have much more consistent build quality.

Now, I wanted a genuine Gibson SG. My 2003 Standard was a decent guitar as far as build quality was concerned, but the un-shielded/un-potted nature of that guitar made it completely unusable in a live performance setting. My 2003 letter to Gibson's Nicholas Chemsak and my 2017 letter (regarding the same problems with my 2016 Gibson SG) cited nearly identical issues and all were related to radio stations playing through the guitars, buzzing/humming, squealing at high volumes and a static electricity effect that caused audible pops and 'scratchiness' to be transmitted through the amp when the guitar is touched.

Not a dealbreaker, but a real hassle. My 2016 SG required full shielding, different pickups and a wire harness before it was usable as a working musician's instrument. When I attempted to shield with the PCB, I still had noise and I believe this is not the fault of the PCB - which I think is actually a really good idea - but rather the 'hot' solder points on the back of the PCB which punch into the wood of the guitar and/or press up against the shielding, even when insulated with paper or tape.

I wanted a genuine Gibson Les Paul. I bought 2 of them before Adrian found me my 2016 50's Tribute (Fat Neck) at Matt's Music. It's a great guitar, other than the buzz/hum and tendency to squeal. Again, this is an un-shielded guitar with un-potted pickups, so it's an easy fix, but am I a little resentful that I have to make those modifications to my new Gibson's??? Yes, and I really do think that Gibson should shield and pot everything other than a historic as standard operating procedure.

Where I live and where I work, there are major issues with RFI/EMI in the studios - and in the general environment. This may not be a problem for someone - let's just say - in Utah - but it's a big deal down here and it really limits my ability to use my Les Paul more often.

When I put a Gibson 500T/496R in my fully shielded 1987 Squirecaster, it became my most quiet - and my highest output guitar. Completely impervious to buzz, hum or squeal, I can stand in front of any of my amps at stage volume and have zero issues. This has become a greater benchmark for me - in recent months - than having a genuine Gibson. When I plug in a $249.00 Jackson import that doesn't squeal, buzz or hum - at all - zero - and I plug in a 2017 ($3,499.00) Gibson Les Paul Custom through the same amp in Guitar Sinner and it buzzes, hums, crackles, pops and plays KFROG 95.1 FM, it does really disappoint me.

I think Gibson is still a premier guitar by reputation, but I also think the days of just pulling one off the rack, and getting one that is 100% useable, (for a working musician) may be over. That's not to say there are not shining examples of Gibson quality out there right now, today, but if I landed in England for a performance, and my Gibson's landed somewhere else, I would feel 100% comfortable grabbing any Jackson or Schecter right off the rack and walking straight-away out onto a stage.

I suppose that I expect Gibson to be - at the very least - on par with that level of utility value, even in a $700.00 - $800.00 model, and instead I find myself investing another $400-$500 in each of my Gibson's to get them up to the noise control level that I get from a $249.00 Jackson. I must admit that I do find this a bit disappointing to say the least....
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Very well said Sir!
 
eSGEe said:
To respond to Roberts post ---- Ive experienced that Gibson/Jackson thing---but the Gibbo was picking up police band radio not the Frog--

I also have 2 (and have had other) 250.00 or less Jacksons at present........and -- well YOUR RIGHT

this was 243.00 delivered-- factory "return" demo model or something discounted---
straight out of the box with minimal adjustments--plays sound and works flawlessy --hung on the wall for 2 weeks-- grabbed it Friday evening for a noodle -- still in perfect tune---
Jackson Adrian Smith "Superstrat" with Floyd (yep Smitty its a FACTORY FLOYD)
View attachment 20377

The OTHER Factory Floyd loaded Jackson was purchased used
Soloist Light Lithe Fast---with active EMGs........its a SHredd Machine of EPIC proportion--craigslist score 250.00
21594b59-c307-44ae-9ae0-53cb8616e750.jpg
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Very nice guitars eSGEe!! Just love the light coloured one.
 
BlackSG91 said:
Hey hey there little BIG buddy...it sounds like you're Obama bashing and bringing politics into this. At least he was way better than you know who!:wink:


;>)/
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You are right, Black. Facts are facts. Government costs consumers. Obama and to a greater degree, over regulated, overly wasteful, bloated tax and spend BIG Government is not better than ANYONE you may be inferring or any private sector solution, no matter who you are comparing views on. Now, I was indeed bringing the BOTTOM LINE of the costs of BIG GOV'T into the economic trickle down to the final cost of goods and services. These high costs and ever escalating need to ratchet up wages just to scrape by to chase after the ever increasing costs of affording to live till our eventual death's. In essence I WAS totally stating facts that one of the largest hindrances to economically priced guitars, hamburgers, cars, health care, schools, etc are the largest offender, BIG GOV'T.

I didn't intend to get deep or into a hyper bean counter vs political analysis of how costs are attributed to the final prices of guitars ( American Gibson, American Fender, American PRS, Canadian Godin, Asian or Mexican versions of these and other makers. But, when I hear of things like plywood companies processing trees in the US, shipping the materials to the far east,then ship finished plywood back 1/2 way across the Pacific ocean and it still costs less than if it were 100% produced in USA or Canada due to fewer regulations, laws, etc. there is something wrong here.

So, if random junk wood has been affected by government crap expenses that get passed on to the consumer, how can we not expect a crafted item with some form or skilled labor to not cost increasingly more if it is made in North America vs places that pay child labor slave wages and have little or not Government raw materials import restrictions ( Brazilian Rosewood, ebony etc) , mandated health care,labor laws or ecological regulations to eat away at profits?
 
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And the list goes on. For a guitar company that hails by its trademark is floundering in its Quality is sad. When the consumer pays out good dollars for a top quality guitar you expect a top quality guitar. To me Gibson has rested on their laurels all these years. If they don't change their way of thinking, get back to the drawing board and make the changes they need to do with their quality they will go down. There is no longer a large base of young guitarists who will put out large sums of cash to have the name Gibson on the headstock, they simply don't have the money. And secondly the baby boomers are dying off so they wont be purchasing expensive guitars. There is one particular Gibson les Paul that has come into the shop in the last 6 months or so, selling price was around $400, I played it and was not impressed with quality or sounds that came out of it. You can buy a Squire Affinity Strat built in Indonesia for $270 which I once owned one, which played very well. Time will tell if Gibson has the staying power, in a market that is flooded with very good playing guitars from other Manufacturers .
 
I bought a new SG Tribute 60's edition in 2014 I think it was--- brand new -- from Musicians friend ---
the neck pickup was non functrioning on a rrival--- and the "local" Alabama Gibson repair guy (authorized for warranty work) opened the control cavity and said
"I cant even test anything in there---thats a PC board--I cant help you---_
I got him to let me use his Repair Number and ordered a new pickup (free) from Gibson--- and I installed it myself--

The guitar otherwise was fine-- But I traded it off as it left a REAL BAD taste in my mouth---I hadnt owned a REAL GIBSON of any kind since my first SG got damaged in a car accident in 1987

to be honest I havent "blindly trusted" Gibson quality since

and to be HONEST-- (as I believe I posted here on the forum and SMITTY gave me a simple fix)

WHen I got THIS SG Special-- the switch was WONKY and would "seat" right --in the middle position----
a little Bending" of the connectors fixed that --- no worries-- but it was ANNOYING to say the least to plug in YET ANOTHER modern SG and have an issue--- not a fatal or deal ending issue-- but an issue none the less.....
SG special.jpg
 
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The thing is about Gibson, for years and years knowing that they had a problem with their guitars not staying in tune, due to the angle of the headstock , they never changed the problem and continued to sell guitars to customers because they knew they could and get away with it. Now this is one of many problems they are having with quality control, is now coming back to bite them you know where. They have seriously angered many many consumers, some who say they will never buy another Gibson ever. When you have an issue with the headstock of a guitar you produce cant stay tuned fix the problem. I would never buy any product from any Manufacturer who knows there is a problem with a product they are selling and they don't address the problem knowing full well there is one. From the one video I posted about the tuning issues with Gibson, I found it quite interesting in what the narrator said using Godin guitars as a prime example of how to build a headstock to get the right angle and a proper nut. Looks like Gibson could use some of Robert Godin's expertise in building guitars. But if asked I'm sure he would say he is too busy building high quality guitars for his own company. When you purchase a high quality guitar it should come with high quality build, parts pups , Bridges, frets, wood and with no defects whatsoever. If you have to start making mods to a guitar that should be right from the get go, then maybe you need to start thinking about going with another Brand.
 
Session, I also viewed somewhere that the 24.75 scale length has a major bearing on tuning and intonation that Gib could fix but chooses not to but instead came up with gimmicky, low demand for guitars such as Gov't model SG's n weird painted things and the "FirebirdX etc etc that no one knew they wanted" until Gib thought it might be the next big thing.
 
Don't anyone take my remarks as All or nothing Gib bashing because we know I DO like and enjoy my 4 SG's, Epi Lester, and Memphis made Es135 and would love any or all of ES series guitars.

PS. This doesn't prevent me from also liking Fenders, Godins, G and L's, Music Man, Jackson, ESP, Parker, Peavey, etc. To me it is the same as I feel about cars. If it serves me well and is cheap and reliable, I could care less what name is on it. Now if a name and a positive experience goes along with their products, I will continue to buy more of the good stuff.

I particularly apply this most often with tools. I will buy Porter Cable, Milwaukee, Hitachi, Snap ON, MAC, Blue Point, Dewalt, Old School Skil ( Worm Drive saws) Festool, Makita, hand tools, saws, drills, shapers, routers, Klein, Fluke , test meters, etc etc.
But, when buying, I also usually inspect for features I like vs ones I'd hate like poor ergonomics on tools I use 10 hours a day every day.
 
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