What Happened to Gibson Guitars?

[syscokid]

Gibson is going to be fine. That video in the opening post was published 10 months ago, last February. That was about a month after Gibson was a no-show at the Winter NAMM convention. Lots has changed since. Henry J has moved on. A new guitar nerd with a little hobby in CEO-ism is the new Sheriff. Everything will be fine...

 

[eSGEe]

NO GIBSON SUCKS -- -they are E SEND ME YOUR GIBSONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

(SYSCO work with me here I will "cut you in")

 

[eSGEe]

they will go UNDER-- you wont get any factory support ---- or warranties -- or -- ........Lattes at the Gibson Cafe (I am grasping at straws here) ................

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I repeatedly say it, but Gibson is making some excellent guitars and has been consistently doing so in recent years - just go to a shop and test your guitar out before buying to make sure it ticks all the boxes for you. Their prices, comparatively speaking are as they were in the 60s on SGs (the LP standards do look pricey nowadays although with the Studio and Classic now specc'd right up - you can get a very find LP for $1500 - 2018).

The Gibson brand and guitars are great (maybe not the Gibson wider company business model).

 

[eSGEe]

I have a Firebird ZERO 2017 -- and an SG Special w/ mini hums 2017 and a much hated 2015 Les Paul JR with Robotuners--and a funky ol BLUES HAWK-- -- to a one all are good guitars-- are fairly priced for what you get (The ZERO is actually a HUGE value IMHO paid less than most new Epiphones and Squires---)

So -- they ARE making some good stuff------ ARE they as good as my 62 EB --- or the NORLIN era stuff---SOnex and G3 or the 1970 Les Paul recording guitar---well TBTH -- no they arent -- they feel a little "thin" and bargain basment ish (the ZERO and the SG) the B.H, the Les Paul JR (ignoring the ROBOTUNERS) is stellar build and finish quality on par with the vintage stuff..

As GRUMP says though -- PLAY IT FIRST-- because TOO BE FAIR I have OWNED and played brand new Gibbos that SUCKED hard boiled eggs through a straw----

but I can say that about most any brand----- except PEAVEY --- I have yet to find a P.O.S> Peavey .......not one.......and I have owned flipped fondled and finagled MANY---some I like more than others but not ever have I played one and went "oh this is pure crap" -- IVe done that with the other "Major Brands"

 

[Session 5]

My outlook on Gibson guitars is they are overpriced for sure. They are not worth the prices they are asking for them. Seems to me many buy them for an investment. They will need to up their game if they want to stay competitive in this new market. As far as salaries and jobs go, some of those employees were letting some shotty work come out of those plants. Where is the old fashioned work ethic, they will need to get it back, if it means to keep pumping higher salaries to the employees to keep the quality going it wont succeed.

 

[Session 5]

I repeatedly say it, but Gibson is making some excellent guitars and has been consistently doing so in recent years - just go to a shop and test your guitar out before buying to make sure it ticks all the boxes for you. Their prices, comparatively speaking are as they were in the 60s on SGs (the LP standards do look pricey nowadays although with the Studio and Classic now specc'd right up - you can get a very find LP for $1500 - 2018).

The Gibson brand and guitars are great (maybe not the Gibson wider company business model).

Sorry Grumpy, I can buy a Godin Core Ct which is comparable to a $1500 Les Paul for $900 dollars Canadian made and from what I see at the shops the quality is on par and even times better than Gibson. So why would I want to spend $600 more. Personally I would rather keep that extra money and purchase something else, hey maybe even another Godin guitar.

 

[Gahr]

The question when discussing better/worse with guitars is what is actually "better"? If you by better mean a guitar sounds better, well, that's subjective. If you mean it looks better, well, again that's highly subjective. If you are talking about attention to detail in the finish, joints etc., I guess that can be pretty objective. If you by better mean value for money, it will depend on what you are looking for in the first place. To my ears and eyes, my Gibsons sound and look great. They feel great in MY hands. I have no problems with them. Can you find cheaper guitars that people would say looked as good, sounded as good and played as good? Sure, but my Gibsons are MY guitars, they work for ME and I dig them. Hence, they are worth every hard earned penny I paid for them.

Are Gibsons in general overpriced? Depends on what guitars you are talking about. Tom Murphy-aged historic spec Custom Shop guitars? Yeah, I'd say they are overpriced. An SG Faded Special? Hell, no! They are made in the US guitars that sound and play great. And when you are talking about expensive guitars, the "law" of diminishing returns come into play.

Like Mr Grumpy says, if you compare prices from the 1950s and today, you will find that adjusted for inflation the prices are not that bad, actually. A Cherry Sunburst cost $265 + $42.50 for the case in 1959. That equals $2623 in 2018. A 2019 Les Paul Traditional (which is really the closest you'll get to a vintage Standard in the non-CS range) will set you back $2799 according to the Gibson website, case included. A double cutaway Les Paul Jr. cost $132.50 + $42.50 for the case (equals $1493). A 2018 LP Jr. costs $1429, case included. Of course, the case can be made that Gibson have always made guitars that were too expensive...

My point being? Gibsons in general are not really a whole lot more expensive today then they have always been. However, the Gibson range is a whole lot larger than it used to be, and the most expensive guitars today are very pricy. But if you look at comparable models, the prices have been surprisingly stable, I have to say.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

I will take all $500-$750 Faded SG Gibson SG Faded Specials, Moon Inlay, 24 fret SGJ, SG and LP Classics, LP Studios and BFG's I can get.
If I want a LP or SG Standard or fancier, bound neck ones, I will buy older ones like 67 does on the used market and save the loss of the depreciation.

 

[syscokid]

you can get a very find LP for $1500 - 2018).

I can buy a Godin Core Ct which is comparable to a $1500 Les Paul for $900 dollars Canadian made and from what I see at the shops the quality is on par and even times better than Gibson.

I find both of the above posts very interesting. And it made me curious, so I embarked on a journey of primitive comparisons.

First of all, I don't think Godin still produces the Core line of single cut solid bodies. So in fairness of this comparison, I selected Godin's Summit line and Gibson's Studio line of the LP style guitar. And, from the same vendor: Sweetwater.

The Gibson Les Paul Studio (2019) in Tangerine Burst... $1699:





The Godin Summit Classic CT in Cherry Burst at $1595:




Main differences:

Gibson is $104 more.

Gibson has a Mahogany weight-relieved body... Godin has a chambered Spanish Cedar body.

Gibson: 2 volume and 2 tone controls with coil tapping of the pickups.
Godin: 1 volume, 1 tone, and their proprietary HDR revoicing feature.

Gibson: Hard Shell Case
Godin : Gig Bag

I wouldn't buy either one of them unless I can give them a real demo, but IMO, the Gibson is fairly priced.

Godin Summit Classic CT with Humbuckers - Cherry Burst

Gibson Les Paul Studio 2019 - Tangerine Burst

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Brother Gball, a number of years ago before I got my first SG, I was guitar shopping at GC. I particularly liked a Classic Custom in Natural finish and it ran just around $1850 when I think the Std's were over 2k.

Either way, I didn't have that kind of cash so I got neither but wound up with my Black 1987 SG Special, and eventually down the road, I got my Faded Special and my SG Classic. To be fair, I had already bought my 2nd choice of LP. I tried and liked the way my EPI Honey Burst LP STD played and it only cost me about $375 with tax. Other than the headstock shape and the Grover Tuners and EPI wiring,Alpha pots, Epi switch,jack, and bridge and tailpiece, it is a fine guitar that happens to be finished in POLY instead of Nitro. It now even has a bone nut and T top Pups because I loved the ones my 1st LP had in them.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

A Classic that's upgraded with coil taps, a rosewood fingerboard and Holly head veneer.

When guitarist and inventor Les Paul conceived the Custom model in the mid-1950s, he envisioned it as a œblack tie guitar suitable for the most elegant occasions. In the years since then, the Les Paul Custom has come to represent all of that and more. The most dressed-up of the Les Paul production line, the Custom is nevertheless a full-bore rocker, suitable for the heaviest riffs you want to throw at it, while still excelling on the blues, jazz, pop or fusion stage.

The Les Paul Classic Custom from Gibson USA stays true to its heritage, keeping the unique touches that make it stand out at a price players will appreciate. Featuring premium tonewoods and top-flight appointments, this is an instrument of astounding beauty and surprising versatility. With all the legendary power of the Les Paul Standard it has a Custom look that stands out from the crowd.

As with the best Les Pauls crafted since the early ™50s, the Les Paul Classic Custom starts with the legendary tonewood pairing of a solid carved maple top glued to a mahogany body. Marrying maple' clarity and definition to mahogany' richness and depth produces a tonal complexity that no single-wood guitar has ever matched.

Its resonance and sustain are only further enhanced by the deep-set quarter-sawn mahogany neck with 17-degree back-angled headstock. Optimum playability is ensured by a slim, comfortable neck profile that measures .800 at the 1st fret and .875 at the 12th. The guitar' 22-fret fingerboard is made from rosewood, and inlaid with trapeziod markers, enhanced by a mother-of-pearl Gibson headstock logo and Holly inlay.

To ensure that all of these constructional features translate to the purest, richest tone possible, Gibson loads the Les Paul Classic Custom with a pair of '57 Classic humbucking pickups, routed through the traditional four-knob with coil taps and three-way switch control section. Made with genuine Alnico II magnets and wound with enamel-coated 42-AWG wire just like the hallowed PAF pickups of the late 1950s and early '60s, the '57 Classics yield creamy warm tones in the neck position and plenty of growl and snarl in the bridge, with funky, round tones in between.

A pairing of Tune-o-matic bridge and stopbar tailpiece ensure solid sustain and accurate intonation, while a set of premium Grover kidney-button tuners make tune-up a breeze. Each guitar comes protected in a black hardshell case with plush lining, and includes an owner's manual and adjustment literature

FEATURES
Traditional weight-relieved genuine mahogany body with bound, carved maple top
Mahogany neck with comfortable, slim neck profile
Rosewood fingerboard with trapeziod inlays
Pair of '57 Classic humbucking pickups in the neck and bridge positions with coil taps
Grover Keystone tuners with 14:1 tuning ratio

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

SPECIFICATIONS
Body
Top: Maple
Back: Mahogany
Body Type: Traditional Weight Relief
Binding: 7-ply
Adhesive: Franklin Titebond 50
Neck
Species: Mahogany
Profile: '60s SlimTaper
Truss Rod: Traditional adjustable
Joint Angle: 5 (+/- 15 seconds)
Adhesive: Franklin Titebond 50
Neck Fit
Joint: Mortise & tenon
Adhesive: Franklin Titebond 50
Joint Angle: Tolerance +/- .005"
Fingerboard
Species: Rosewood
Frets: 22
Radius: 12"
Scale Length: 24.75"
Nut/E.O.B: 1.695"/2.260"
Binding: White
Inlays: Trapeziod
Nut
Material: Corian
Width: 1.695
Slots: Gibson PLEK System
Headstock
Logo: Mother-of-pearl Gibson, Holly
Truss Rod Cover: Black and White Antique Bell
Tuners
Model: Grover Keystone
Plating: Chrome
Tuning Ratio: 14:1
Bridge
Type: Tune-o-matic
Material: Zamak
Plating: Chrome
Tailpiece
Type: Stop bar
Material: Zamak
Plating: Chrome
Hardware
Knobs: Black speed knobs
Pickguard: 5-ply black
Toggle Switch: Washer black with white imprint
Pickup Mounting Rings: Black plastic
Control Plate Cover: Black plastic
Strings: .010 - .046, Genuine Gibson strings
Strap Buttons: Aluminum
Pickups
Neck: Position 57 Classic (Alnico II)
Bridge: Position 57 Classic (Alnico II)
Electronics
Potentiometers: 2 volume controls, 2 tone controls, coil-tapping
Type: 300k linear volume, 500k Non-linear tone
Coil Wiring: Machine wound
Toggle Switch: Three-way Switchcraft with white plastic tip
Output Jack: Traditional 1/4"
Finish
Sealer: Nitrocellulose
Process: 1-1.5 mils
Case
Type: Gibson Hardshell
Case Exterior: Black
Case Interior: White plush

 

[BlackSG91]

Well, Bea over here in the good old US of A, Obama and other politicians forced employers big a small to provide ever increasing minimum wage plus health insurance and all manner of overhead for each employee. Where once there might be 5-15 or more people to take your food order or ring up your merchandise, now they put 1 or 2 people in charge of automated self checkout stations where the customer must ring up and bag up their own items. In the long run they can eliminate the extra costs associated with the insurance etc of human workers by using a computer, credit card reader, and the customer as labor.

Essentially now to go to a fast food restaurant costs more than it used to cost for a sit down chef cooked meal due to all the escalating costs of labor.
So many things like this eat at my patience. People have to make over $100,000 just to pay for all the crap the government forces us to pay for. Most of it to me is waste and graft and to pay for crap that is like throwing money down the drain.

I am gonna shut up now

Hey hey there little BIG buddy...it sounds like you're Obama bashing and bringing politics into this. At least he was way better than you know who!


;>)/

 

[Session 5]

Sysco the Godin Summit Classic sells here for $1,695.00 CDN The Les Paul Studio sells here $1,899.00. For me comparing these two guitars is a good comparison, and I agree the prices are not way out of line between these two guitars. But for me, If the guitars were both equally playing etc the $204 dollar savings would be a deal maker for me no matter where its made. Summit Classic HB Cherryburst HG | Godin Guitars

 

[BlackSG91]

Now that is a work of Canadian art!!!

;>)/

 

[Thatbastarddon]

I find both of the above posts very interesting. And it made me curious, so I embarked on a journey of primitive comparisons.

First of all, I don't think Godin still produces the Core line of single cut solid bodies. So in fairness of this comparison, I selected Godin's Summit line and Gibson's Studio line of the LP style guitar. And, from the same vendor: Sweetwater.

The Gibson Les Paul Studio (2019) in Tangerine Burst... $1699:

View attachment 20333



The Godin Summit Classic CT in Cherry Burst at $1595:

View attachment 20334


Main differences:

Gibson is $104 more.

Gibson has a Mahogany weight-relieved body... Godin has a chambered Spanish Cedar body.

Gibson: 2 volume and 2 tone controls with coil tapping of the pickups.
Godin: 1 volume, 1 tone, and their proprietary HDR revoicing feature.

Gibson: Hard Shell Case
Godin : Gig Bag

I wouldn't buy either one of them unless I can give them a real demo, but IMO, the Gibson is fairly priced.

Godin Summit Classic CT with Humbuckers - Cherry Burst

Gibson Les Paul Studio 2019 - Tangerine Burst

Very well put sir.
They compare pretty well to me.
My only gripes with the Godins are;
I can’t find one around here to try out/play.
A gig bag is a “no go” for me, as when/if I do gig, I always seem to get some well meaning “helpers” when we’re loading out ...just after last call. I need a hard shell case to be available for any guitars that I gig with. The price of a good hard shell case needs to be included in the comparison, to me. If the Godin fits in one of my existing LP cases...that would work for me though.
One volume knob is a downer, for me, with a two pickup guitar. I find myself in middle position often enough to notice it, and the fact that I like to adjust the blending of the two, to taste, for the moment at hand. Is it a deal breaker? No. But I’ve become accustomed to that 3 or 4 knob set up with a volume for each pickup.

That said, Godin make some mighty fine looking guitars, that appear to compare pretty well with similar Gibson offerings. That Summit Classic CT even has body binding...not a big deal to me, but it looks sharp, and well finished.

 

[syscokid]

Sysco the Godin Summit Classic sells here for $1,695.00 CDN The Les Paul Studio sells here $1,899.00.

I wonder if the bigger price discrepancy in Canada is due to the Canadian tariffs imposed on USA products, or is it just plain Gibson marketing.
$1695 CDN = $1246 USD
$1899 CDN = $1396 USD...
Interesting again, and I don't get it... So it's cheaper to buy a Gibson LP Studio in Canada?

 

[Thatbastarddon]

I wonder if the bigger price discrepancy in Canada is due to the Canadian tariffs imposed on USA products, or is it just plain Gibson marketing.
$1695 CDN = $1246 USD
$1899 CDN = $1396 USD...
Interesting again, and I don't get it... So it's cheaper to buy a Gibson LP Studio in Canada?

never mind...I hav to read more carefully.

 

[Session 5]

Very well put sir.
They compare pretty well to me.
My only gripes with the Godins are;
I can’t find one around here to try out/play.
A gig bag is a “no go” for me, as when/if I do gig, I always seem to get some well meaning “helpers” when we’re loading out ...just after last call. I need a hard shell case to be available for any guitars that I gig with. The price of a good hard shell case needs to be included in the comparison, to me. If the Godin fits in one of my existing LP cases...that would work for me though.
One volume knob is a downer, for me, with a two pickup guitar. I find myself in middle position often enough to notice it, and the fact that I like to adjust the blending of the two, to taste, for the moment at hand. Is it a deal breaker? No. But I’ve become accustomed to that 3 or 4 knob set up with a volume for each pickup.

That said, Godin make some mighty fine looking guitars, that appear to compare pretty well with similar Gibson offerings. That Summit Classic CT even has body binding...not a big deal to me, but it looks sharp, and well finished.

Just keep on rockin Don