Ditto.
Who Owns Fender
- Thread starter Session 5
- Start date
Ditto.
A very good and entertaining read, @SG John
Working for Fender really changed my perspective. That's all i can really say. Without that experience, i quite likely would not have some of the opinions that i have today, and im grateful for the experience, because i see the truth, and it matters to me.
I'm really content with my purge of all the foreign gear. Everything went to up and coming players who are in genuine need of good, playable gear...and most simply couldn't afford anything good.
I'm also quite content with my choice to scale back my music career in favor of spending more time with my wife, who had become a musical widow.
Guitars???
I use my 2021 Gibson Les Paul 50's Standard Gold Top for everything.
Speakers???
I only have the 2x12 Celestion Copperback 250's and the 1985 Jackson Eminence 4x12, UK and USA Made respectively.
Amps???
I still have the UK Made 1993 Valvestate Bi-Chorus 200 and the Origin 50H Ivanberg.
I also have a Line 6 HD75 Spider 2 Head that i bought brand new and only played for one show - Wasteland Weekend 2018 - alongside The Late Keli Wilde, in Maxxon Axxe.
The import amps are slated for donation to the new Rockstars Academy in Hesperia once they open in late January, 2023.
I'm also debating whether or not i will return as an instructor this year.
I bought quite a few guitars over the years. Some experiences were not great.
I bought several $800.00 to $900.00 Entry-Level Gibsons, ranging from the 2016 SG T Series up to a 2017 Gibson Les Paul Studio T Series and several Les Paul 50's Tributes, and i was disappointed with all 5 of them.
A bit like @SG John mentioned, i had intonation anomalies with several of them, and a bit unlike @SG John said, i had high/uneven frets, humped fretboards, noisy electronics, etc.
In summary, as my skill as a Luthier got better, fewer instruments appealed to me.
As my skill as a performer got better, i cared less about the guitar's flaws, so its a little like being on a teeter totter.
With Gibson, i believe i was expecting exceptionally high quality from an entry-level guitar designed with cost-effective construction methodology. Once i bought a Gibson based on feel - with zero regard for the price - its ironic that this guitar checked all the boxes.
Once i got there, i just stopped looking.
Teaching for Rockstars also taught me several things.
The musical instrument industry is geared towards making the public believe this new piece of gear will make you sound better. Im opposed to that falsehood.
Practice and Performing is what makes you sound better.
I still rise early and play for enjoyment and skill maintenance. I still play sessions daily for a living, but I'm seriously considering retirement .
I've pulled out of every music project except the band Outfall and my occasional 4th of July performances with the 40 years and still going strong band, No Surrender.
Playing 5-6 nights a week in several bands is now a thing of the past. Now, I'm spending my nights around our fire pit.
When i do teach and when i do perform, its with top shelf UK/USA gear. That's my personal preference.
Beyond that, i think my days of being a fanatical player have passed. Today, I'm more focused...more relaxed...and i enjoy what i do more than i used too, but I've realized that no amount of money makes up for my absence.
A lot of guys that i know have told me that they play to be out of the house. I'm close with my wife. I don't need an escape.
I must say that I'm really looking forward to getting this hand-made Ivanberg Neanderthal from @syscokid.
I have plans to use it as my #1 amplifier, whether that be teaching for Rockstars or the occasional recording session with a live amp.
I do, sometimes say 'yes' when i am asked to cover a missing band member, but it's nothing like my previous, musical fanaticism where i didn't feel like i had accomplished anything unless i was committed to a 5-6 night a week performance schedule.
We spend most of those nights here now.
Working for Fender really changed my perspective. That's all i can really say. Without that experience, i quite likely would not have some of the opinions that i have today, and im grateful for the experience, because i see the truth, and it matters to me.
I'm really content with my purge of all the foreign gear. Everything went to up and coming players who are in genuine need of good, playable gear...and most simply couldn't afford anything good.
I'm also quite content with my choice to scale back my music career in favor of spending more time with my wife, who had become a musical widow.
Guitars???
I use my 2021 Gibson Les Paul 50's Standard Gold Top for everything.
Speakers???
I only have the 2x12 Celestion Copperback 250's and the 1985 Jackson Eminence 4x12, UK and USA Made respectively.
Amps???
I still have the UK Made 1993 Valvestate Bi-Chorus 200 and the Origin 50H Ivanberg.
I also have a Line 6 HD75 Spider 2 Head that i bought brand new and only played for one show - Wasteland Weekend 2018 - alongside The Late Keli Wilde, in Maxxon Axxe.
The import amps are slated for donation to the new Rockstars Academy in Hesperia once they open in late January, 2023.
I'm also debating whether or not i will return as an instructor this year.
I bought quite a few guitars over the years. Some experiences were not great.
I bought several $800.00 to $900.00 Entry-Level Gibsons, ranging from the 2016 SG T Series up to a 2017 Gibson Les Paul Studio T Series and several Les Paul 50's Tributes, and i was disappointed with all 5 of them.
A bit like @SG John mentioned, i had intonation anomalies with several of them, and a bit unlike @SG John said, i had high/uneven frets, humped fretboards, noisy electronics, etc.
In summary, as my skill as a Luthier got better, fewer instruments appealed to me.
As my skill as a performer got better, i cared less about the guitar's flaws, so its a little like being on a teeter totter.
With Gibson, i believe i was expecting exceptionally high quality from an entry-level guitar designed with cost-effective construction methodology. Once i bought a Gibson based on feel - with zero regard for the price - its ironic that this guitar checked all the boxes.
Once i got there, i just stopped looking.
Teaching for Rockstars also taught me several things.
The musical instrument industry is geared towards making the public believe this new piece of gear will make you sound better. Im opposed to that falsehood.
Practice and Performing is what makes you sound better.
I still rise early and play for enjoyment and skill maintenance. I still play sessions daily for a living, but I'm seriously considering retirement .
I've pulled out of every music project except the band Outfall and my occasional 4th of July performances with the 40 years and still going strong band, No Surrender.
Playing 5-6 nights a week in several bands is now a thing of the past. Now, I'm spending my nights around our fire pit.
When i do teach and when i do perform, its with top shelf UK/USA gear. That's my personal preference.
Beyond that, i think my days of being a fanatical player have passed. Today, I'm more focused...more relaxed...and i enjoy what i do more than i used too, but I've realized that no amount of money makes up for my absence.
A lot of guys that i know have told me that they play to be out of the house. I'm close with my wife. I don't need an escape.
I must say that I'm really looking forward to getting this hand-made Ivanberg Neanderthal from @syscokid.
I have plans to use it as my #1 amplifier, whether that be teaching for Rockstars or the occasional recording session with a live amp.
I do, sometimes say 'yes' when i am asked to cover a missing band member, but it's nothing like my previous, musical fanaticism where i didn't feel like i had accomplished anything unless i was committed to a 5-6 night a week performance schedule.
We spend most of those nights here now.
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
Me too. But, some of his " the Eastman has better fit and finish" statements carry weight with some folks as deal breakers if not on comparable or more expensive competitors, and then again some listen to their ears, or the feel of the neck, weight, quietness of hum, body weight etc to guide their decisions.
Stuff like fret end or profile of edges of fretboard etc can be "dressed up" easily enough. Stuff like high frets, sprout, poor lacquer finishing, wonky electronics, poorly cut nuts, bad neck angles, twisted necks, too narrow a nut etc. are all the factors I need to be done right in order for me to deem a guitar a keeper and worthy to buy and add to my others.
OP
Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
I wouldn't expect it to have the same tone as Gibson, what I am referring to is the quality of the build and the price. The Eastman to me is more bang for the buck. And like the man said in his opinion the Eastman is a better guitar. Tone for me is not the most important thing in my book, its the quality of the build, its not hard to change pickups..And the quality of the build of Eastman was much better, and again less money.
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SG John
Ambassador of Cool Guitars and Amps.
Sometimes, tone is not in the pickups but in the guitar itself. The pickups shape the tone, sure. But they are part of a whole. I have three identical sets of pickups in three different guitars. They do all sound different. But the type of wood and shape do make a difference as those three are an SG, a Les Paul, and a Flying V. They all behave differently, and sound differently as a result. Not only do I want it to play perfectly out of the box, I also want the sound to be good. If it sounds like poop, you’ll never be able to really make it perfect.
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
Actually Norm. As I tried to point out, Darrell mentioned his assessment was for less money, the Eastman has better fit and finish of the similar features like the bone nut vs Corian, fret polishing and ends, finish of the fingerboard edges by the neck join etc.
Now, with regards to the Eastman being a better guitar, like I said above, there could be other important qualities that no 2 players could tell from the video but would need to be determined by actually playing each personally to see how they feel in the player's hands.
Not debating yours or his opinions, just adding in other factors that matter as well. Ask Robert about his Gold Top. You can bet, if it was riddled with quality issues, bad frets, poor fingerboard, noisy hum, etc.it would fail the QC test.
Now, with regards to the Eastman being a better guitar, like I said above, there could be other important qualities that no 2 players could tell from the video but would need to be determined by actually playing each personally to see how they feel in the player's hands.
Not debating yours or his opinions, just adding in other factors that matter as well. Ask Robert about his Gold Top. You can bet, if it was riddled with quality issues, bad frets, poor fingerboard, noisy hum, etc.it would fail the QC test.
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
John, I hear ya here. My other thought on how some folks post comparison videos and say hey, look how this one has super pickups and the other is muddy or other stuff yadda yadda. We often are not told how well each set of pickups is dialed in height adjustment or what specs the pots are, or the various caps in the controls etc. All these can alter the equation much like you say the wood, body shapes etc do.
OP
Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
I believe many have been, I don't like to say brainwashed by the Gibson and Fender brands. There are other brands in the market place that are just as good as those brands. And yes I am very happy with Godin brand guitars, high quality and very good consistency in their Instruments.
But I am not loyal to any particular Brand, when I first started out I had a Fender Squire Affinity Strat, as IMHO it was the best made guitar in its class at that time, it was made in Indonesia, that was almost nine years ago now. The guitar was well made and played well. Had it for a couple of years and sold it to a friend who has it and likes the guitar.
I owned a B.C. Rich, was decently made, and was built in China, the finish was quite good and I liked the guitar, but found out it was giving me severe hand pain after playing, so i sold it. I liked the guitar and probably would have kept that one , if there were no problems.
As some of you know I bought a Jet 5220 Gretsch, the build is flawless and is made in China, it blew me away to see the finish that nice on this guitar, it has its own tones which Gretsch to me only has. The pickups are great, stays in tune and is a fun guitar to play.
So I am not Brand loyal, If i can get a good playing guitar in the mid range or high range, doesn't matter to me where its made, My way of thinking, is outside the box.
There are many other brand of guitar makers out there, I believe if you are stuck on one brand only, well I have to say you are missing out. You don't need to pay thousands of dollars to have a well playing guitar, that's a myth.
I buy a guitar to play, I don't buy it because of the name on the headstock or where its made. I want a guitar that's lots of value for my hard earned dollars.
But I am not loyal to any particular Brand, when I first started out I had a Fender Squire Affinity Strat, as IMHO it was the best made guitar in its class at that time, it was made in Indonesia, that was almost nine years ago now. The guitar was well made and played well. Had it for a couple of years and sold it to a friend who has it and likes the guitar.
I owned a B.C. Rich, was decently made, and was built in China, the finish was quite good and I liked the guitar, but found out it was giving me severe hand pain after playing, so i sold it. I liked the guitar and probably would have kept that one , if there were no problems.
As some of you know I bought a Jet 5220 Gretsch, the build is flawless and is made in China, it blew me away to see the finish that nice on this guitar, it has its own tones which Gretsch to me only has. The pickups are great, stays in tune and is a fun guitar to play.
So I am not Brand loyal, If i can get a good playing guitar in the mid range or high range, doesn't matter to me where its made, My way of thinking, is outside the box.
There are many other brand of guitar makers out there, I believe if you are stuck on one brand only, well I have to say you are missing out. You don't need to pay thousands of dollars to have a well playing guitar, that's a myth.
I buy a guitar to play, I don't buy it because of the name on the headstock or where its made. I want a guitar that's lots of value for my hard earned dollars.
OP
Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
I am referring Mark to gball comments, as seen below
I respect your opinion but I challenge this statement unequivocally. You can't show me any guitar anywhere with the features, playibilty and tone that a Gibson USA has for anything close to the price and quality. I consider them to be a bargain for what they cost and consistently wonder how they do what they do so economically.
I Mark disagree with his comments, which is fine, we agree to disagree.
Just pointing out a different way of looking at things through this video. This is why I disagree with gball..comments..
I find the quality of Gibson to be exceptional when you move past their entry-level guitars.
Blows me sway too, since i was their QC guy and less than 3 in 10 were "passable" and even at that percentage, we were letting a lot of bad stuff pass.
A lot of reversed headstock logos and other major flaws got past the QC guys.
Gretsch has the highest return rate of any other brand from Sweetwater.
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
One mans opinion on two specific guitars. The Eastman is completly derivative, so obviously they had an existing model to follow instead of creating something their own, which is a huge demerit to me. They also don't have a nitro finish and they use off the shelf pickups.
I've played a few and they were fine, but overall it doesn't change my statement at all. In the aggregate I don't think anything can touch modern Gibsons for the money.
You may think I'm just a homer here, but I've owned damn close to every guitar that there is to own over the last 45 years and I have always gone back to Gibsons. There's just nothing else that feels or sounds quite like them.
Here's one week of Gretsch returns from Sweetwater....orange tags marked 'SW.'
Dates listed are processing dates (dates the items are scheduled to be RTV'd back to the vendor), but this is the "inbound" rack for returns. They get scanned in, then wrapped and moved to long term storage. Its emptied every Saturday.
The top shelf, purple tags, are Musician's Fiend returns.
Dates listed are processing dates (dates the items are scheduled to be RTV'd back to the vendor), but this is the "inbound" rack for returns. They get scanned in, then wrapped and moved to long term storage. Its emptied every Saturday.
The top shelf, purple tags, are Musician's Fiend returns.
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gball
Ambassador of Boogie
I used to not be so brand loyal. The most guitars I ever had was 10 or 11, and out of those only two were Gibsons. But...after quite a few years I realized the other ones were basically paperweights - only the Gibsons did what I needed a guitar to do. A few years later and I realized only Les Pauls do what need them to do (and I have owned several really nice single-cut, carved top guitars from other makers that just did not bring the goods the same way) and so now I have 6 guitars, all Les Pauls and all with different pickups and neck sizes for all the variety I need.
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
To both Session 5 and Gball, plus of course Robert, SG John and all others who read this.
A. I am sure there is 0 animosity or tit for tat jabs intended between Norm and G or any of us here relating to pro's and con's and also brand vs brand, or heck, even style of music vs style, Genre vs Genre, Band vs Band etc.
B. When it comes to preferences, Picking one guitar that is " better, best, suckier or suckiest of the bunch" this is much like telling all guys that only Freckly tall, waif thin, big boobed, Redheads are the ideal woman.
We all know that Curvy Asian girls are the BEST.
C. As gball said, HE tried many many types of guitars over a many year period. His preference of LP's is HIS "Asian Hottie"
D. Robert has also tried many kinds of guitars, he has made loads of money playing an Affinity Strat as well as a 1979 LP Custom, Schecter HellRaiser and even a $200 Ibanez Bass. BUT, for him, HIS "best girl" is one that took him decades of "3 strikes and you are out," swings and misses to find his Gold Top Goddess. AND Robert has mentioned that he has even reduced his proportion of playing time in order to devote it to his lovely Central American bride and their family. ( Correct me if I am wrong on Mrs Herndon's heritage- @Inspector #20 )
D. There are also other players like Robert and Gball who have found their ideal instruments, Session 5 included, NO one is the lesser man/woman for liking Godin's Vs Tele's vs Deans vs Gretsches vs LP's vs SG's vs home made guitars or Partscasters etc. Some prefer to play a focused selection of 1 to 6 of a certain type, and other someones' prefer playing 1-6-12-20 of all sorts of brands and models. This is what makes the world go around. Differences. Ditto for amps, drums, cars, trucks etc.
As for me, I love me some Asian girls. BUT then again, I have nothing against German, French, Bolivian, Russian, Scandinavian, or heck Canadian girls either. I blame Marsha Marsha Marsha, Farrah, Kate, Barbara Eden, or young Raquel Welch for this.
Re. Girls. (1) you left out Irish. That’d be my girl (2) a wise man once said it’s a good thing we’re all different or we’d be chasing the same girl. In a weird sorta way that applies to guitars as well.
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
IBlive, THE Irish was inferred in my statement B. about the Waif Thin Redheads with big Boobs
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
SG John
Ambassador of Cool Guitars and Amps.
I'm a total sucker for a hot redhead. But, I tend to gravitate towards women who make me laugh. If they have a sense of humor, that makes me want to be with them. Granted, my wife was originally a strawberry blonde.