To What Are Yee Listenin' Right Now?

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Robert Herndon said:
Love SRV - hated his tone
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Ahh....that’s where we come down to the wonderful individuality of music!

I, on the other hand, liked SRV’s signature Strat tone from the very first time I heard it years ago...long before I ever knew of or joined any guitar forum. No one told me it was supposed to sound good.

Conversely, though I definitely love the look and sound of Les Pauls, SRV‘s playing on a Les Paul sounds generic to me. It bears the hallmarks of his skill and style, but it has kind of a ”safe” tone.

But, you are you and I am me!

The beauty is we all don’t have to like the same thing!

In a way it’s like food. We don’t all like the same foods. I love fish, especially sea food. My wife dislikes pretty much all fish.

I think we can learn to like certain forms of music and sounds, just like we can learn to like certain foods. The first time I tried an avocado I really disliked it. However, I was determined to learn to like them because I know how healthy they are. So, eventually I actually developed a taste for them to the point where I regularly eat them. I actually like them now.

But, some things we may never learn to like. Did you know cilantro tastes like soap to some people? This is actually a genetic thing. Those people are unlikely to develop a taste for cilantro.

So, it’s all good!
 
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smitty_p said:
Ahh....that’s where we come down to the wonderful individuality of music!

I, on the other hand, liked SRV’s signature Strat tone from the very first time I heard it years ago...long before I ever knew of or joined any guitar forum. No one told me it was supposed to sound good.

Conversely, though I definitely love the look and sound of Les Pauls, SRV‘s playing on a Les Paul sounds generic to me. It bears the hallmarks of his skill and style, but it has kind of a ”safe” tone.

But, you are you and I am me!

The beauty is we all don’t have to like the same thing!

In a way it’s like food. We don’t all like the same foods. I love fish, especially sea food. My wife dislikes pretty much all fish.

I think we can learn to like certain forms of music and sounds, just like we can learn to like certain foods. The first time I tried an avocado I really disliked it. However, I was determined to learn to like them because I know how healthy they are. So, eventually I actually developed a taste for them to the point where I regularly eat them. I actually like them now.

But, some things we may never learn to like. Did you know cilantro tastes like soap to some people? This is actually a genetic thing. Those people are unlikely to develop a taste for cilantro.

So, it’s all good!
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From a production standpoint, It's certainly not a great EQ, but there is great potential there.

I liked 'Crossfire' immensely. I consider that song his pinnacle effort. I never really was "reached" by his other music, although he was an incredible talent.

I could never listen to a Pantera song all the way through, all the while recognizing Dime as a tremendous talent.

Admittedly, I am an odd duck. I like certain things in music and I tend not to venture out of my happy place. I am not likely to learn to like anything I do not genuinely like.

I turned down a full-time guitar spot in 2007 with a country artist when he was losing his main guitarist. I turned it down when I was informed that a Fender Telecaster was a "contractual requirement," as was Fender amplifiers. The money would have been good, yes, but if I dont love my sound, I do not play my best. Easy decision.

I was never easily persuaded and I seldom followed accepted norms.

I guess I haven't changed appreciably.
 
Robert Herndon said:
I guess I haven't changed appreciably.
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And, that’s okay!

I’m not interested in trying to somehow convince you to like what I like!

We all have our own tastes and preferences. We see this in nature. Not all animals are herbivores; not all animals are carnivores; many are omnivores. Even within those classifications, we find specialists. Pandas, for example, subsist almost entirely on bamboo. Other herbivores, like deer, are opportunists and will eat a rather varied plant diet...including my wife’s hostas!

I guess I’m only interested in laying the distinction between preference and a priori evaluations.

It‘s one thing to say, “I don’t like that sound.” It’s another thing to say, “That sound is bad.”

I, for example, tire very quickly of the heavily-saturated distortion of some forms of modern metal. Some people like it. About the most distortion I like is what you’d find in ‘80s Metal, or perhaps some ’90s stuff. But, too far beyond that, and I feel like some of the organic quality of the instrument gets obscured. Again, this is me and not a statement of objective truth.

Don‘t think, however, that I like all things done on a Strat! Quite the contrary. Sometimes, I’ll hear stuff, even by SRV or Clapton, and I think, “Dude...you really shouldn’t have used the bridge pickup, there!” Using a Strat does take more work with amp and guitar settings. No doubt about it.

Maybe that’s what I like about it. It’s sonic character is full of harmonics that are not tamed, as they are with a typical humbucker. Consequently, I feel like you can coax a wider palette of sounds from it, but there is also a greater risk! I also recognize it is not very well-suited for certain sounds. That’s why I have several guitars!

I suppose that may be one reason I’ve taken to listening to a lot of Eric Johnson. He seems to have figured out how to get that pure, singing nature from his Strats while not getting some of the harshness that can come with it.

I guess, at the end of the day...what I’m trying to say, Robert...is that you’re just a big, cuddly panda!
 
smitty_p said:
And, that’s okay!

I’m not interested in trying to somehow convince you to like what I like!

We all have our own tastes and preferences. We see this in nature. Not all animals are herbivores; not all animals are carnivores; many are omnivores. Even within those classifications, we find specialists. Pandas, for example, subsist almost entirely on bamboo. Other herbivores, like deer, are opportunists and will eat a rather varied plant diet...including my wife’s hostas!

I guess I’m only interested in laying the distinction between preference and a priori evaluations.

It‘s one thing to say, “I don’t like that sound.” It’s another thing to say, “That sound is bad.”

I, for example, tire very quickly of the heavily-saturated distortion of some forms of modern metal. Some people like it. About the most distortion I like is what you’d find in ‘80s Metal, or perhaps some ’90s stuff. But, too far beyond that, and I feel like some of the organic quality of the instrument gets obscured. Again, this is me and not a statement of objective truth.

Don‘t think, however, that I like all things done on a Strat! Quite the contrary. Sometimes, I’ll hear stuff, even by SRV or Clapton, and I think, “Dude...you really shouldn’t have used the bridge pickup, there!” Using a Strat does take more work with amp and guitar settings. No doubt about it.

Maybe that’s what I like about it. It’s sonic character is full of harmonics that are not tamed, as they are with a typical humbucker. Consequently, I feel like you can coax a wider palette of sounds from it, but there is also a greater risk! I also recognize it is not very well-suited for certain sounds. That’s why I have several guitars!

I suppose that may be one reason I’ve taken to listening to a lot of Eric Johnson. He seems to have figured out how to get that pure, singing nature from his Strats while not getting some of the harshness that can come with it.

I guess, at the end of the day...what I’m trying to say, Robert...is that you’re just a big, cuddly panda!
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Eric seems to have created his own art form in his playing. I preferred his tone on Cliffs Of Dover on the Gibson SG because it embodied a depth and complexity that is not pronounced in his Stratacasters. He is insanely gifted.

I am impressed with Yngwie on many levels. His tone is the singlemost recognizable guitar tone I have ever heard. His ability to combine these fast, classical/baroque phrases amazes me.

As a kid, one of the records Mom gave me was Segovia. I was fascinated by his sound. I took a few classical lessons, but seating position is about all that I retained. To this day, I still place all guitars on my left thigh.

Tone is indeed most subjective. I'm not sure a high school dropout, who worked with a house band in a California cowboy bar at 15 for $75/week, has sufficient credentials to debate tone and music. To that end, I will comment from the position of someone who has learned what he has learned, largely through professional exposure

I have played a very old studio-owned Broadcaster on ocassions, which has a very 'traditional' tone. I would describe it as very bright, but with an almost bell-like quality. It clearly "fits" within certain genres of music.

I hear Stratocasters that do indeed sound better than others, or that have more clarity in their tone, and can see why they would be sought after for that intrinsic quality.

Unless being paid to play a single coil for a given project, I personally tend to avoid guitar tones that lack body and presence. To my ears, a Stratocaster - by design - sounds like an AM radio - very thin, without any sonic foundation.

While this clearly cuts through in a mix, to my ear it is like the 'traditional' Stratocaster tone is like a Cyndi Lauper vocal passage and the Gibson or 'humbucker' tone is like a Pavorratti vocal passage.

Two cases in point would be Jimmy Vaughan's solo tone in "Tough Enough" and Chrissy Hynde's tone in "Middle Of The Road." Both are super bright and thin.

Conversely, Clapton's solo tone on "Forever Man" is my all-time favorite tone by him, even better - IMHO - than his Gibson's. SRV's tone on "Crossfire" also is pleasing to my ear. I also felt like Joe Walsh's Telecaster tone in Hotel California was very good.

As mention in our previous discussion, EQ has a lot to do with it. I have been studying music production on a daily basis at work and am learning the value of equalization in both a recording and live environment - 3 bands is not enough.

Scale length is also a big influence on tone. EVH's tone is so glaringly 25.5" scale that I could never really endure listening to VH - loved the technique but couldn't endure the clean/bright/thin nature of his tone, which exploits the twang/jangle of the Fender scale.

On the other hand, Tipton's Super Strat tone is unmistakably 25.5" in nature, but it has more substance to it.

You mention several things of intetest in your description of Overdriven tone.

There are guitar and tonal nuances still very much present despite the application of gain.

I tend to gravitate towards a heavy, yet clean chug on the lower gauge strings that still has a lot of definition and clarity and yet the higher strings produce an edgy, almost 'snarling' overtone, as if two guitars are being played at once, both in different registers.

An example of this would be Robbin Crosby's isolated rhythm tone from "Round And Round." This tone, while gained substantially, still retains individual string clarity.

At the other end of the spectrum would be Abbott's tone in "Cowboys From Hell." No clarity or definition. Just lots of gain. It's a 'No' from me on this end of the sonic spectrum.

While I admired Randy Rhoad's technique, I wasnt a fan of his tone. To me, it lacked complexity and articulation. Even doubled it was thin. His tone on "Tribute" was very clean and loud, but really lacked ambience and punch, IMHO.

Solo tone is an area where I use a second EQ to boost resonance and presence. I would say that George Lynch has one of my favorite solo tones, not just his EQ, but the use of chorus, delay and reverb. My next solo tone vote would go to Warren DiMartini.

I try to EQ what I would describe as a harmony of notes. The big strings are dynamic and drive the speaker while the small strings have a pronounced bite that creates the sonic effect of two guitars being played at once.

Also, my entire setup is purpose built to eliminate hum/buzz and permit very high volume levels with incredible clarity and articulation of the individual notes. This is one reason I favor open chords in a metal environment because it exploits those characteristics.

I like to be able to stand in front of my DSL40C, with the volume 1/2-way to 2/3rds up, with a full pedalboard running, and have no feedback, squealing or other nasty sonic habits to contend with.

Most guitarists that I encounter have so much noise in their signal chain that it is distracting. Much like hair is "normal" to dog owners, many guitarists seem to embrace - if not EQ to exploit the noise as if it is a sonic badge of honor.

I suppose its reasonable to say that I want absolute control over every aspect of my sound, including the building blocks of accurate tempered 1st/9th intonation and spot-on tuning.

In our last lineup, I played a single DSL40C alongside a Carvin 100 watt full tube stack and a Seymour Duncan Convertible tube head through a Randall 4x12.

My settings - other than reverb - never changed, no matter where we played. The other two guitarists constantly complained that I was "too loud," despite lower knob settings and lower decibel production when tested. Both guitarists seemed intent, if not hell bent - on entering the sonic spectrum of the bass and find themselves unable to climb out of the pit with their volume knob.

Mud and speaker breakup doesn't even begin to describe the result, combined with uncontrollable feedback that was constantly present even while actively playing.

We dismissed both guitarists shortly thereafter.

What was interesting to me, however, was the comments i would receive from audience members when breaking the gear down about my tone, which I always use as a sonic barometer.

One night I had a guy comment, "I've never heard a guitar that loud that didnt kill my ears. I could feel the air coming off your amp!"

Another great comment was, "how come that little amp (my DSL40C) sounds clearer and more massive than those two f**king stacks???)

E-Q, Brute???

While devoid of formal musical education, I can only describe what I hear and feel.

I am admittedly narrow minded and tend to evaluate - even admire - tones that I see as being very complex in nature, but with incredible power, projection and staggering speaker movement.

Anything less I find so boring that I quickly change the channel or pop in a CD. To this day there are 35 year old classics that I have never been able to listen too all the way through because of the guitar's tone.

I've been writing this between sessions since early this morning, so forgive me if it jumps around.

Wishing you all the best...
 
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