TAD7025WA's vs. Genelex T12AX7:

I turned on my Dark Terror and plugged my Lester in to see how the stock JJ12ax7s preamp tubes could be induced into fizz (just as an exercise). I can do it just by lowering volume and running the gain knob up, up, up. Boosting the volume to the db level that's comfortable to the situation and room size, I tweak the gain down, down, down, until I hear no fuzz, but still have some room left to lower or raise volume with just my guitar's volume knobs.

This I've found, takes some practice of course, but also helps if you have a clear mind and a “target” tone kept in your mind.....that way you're not constantly twiddling amp and control knobs and getting frustrated. Also keep in mind, my experimet(s) are done with only a reverb pedal. I'm seeking my ideal guitar and amp only tone. Later on, if needed, is when I'll think about augmenting a good tone with some color. I don't swap tubes, because I did research my amp's tone reviews before purchase of the Dark Terror. Besides, I don't figure I can afford testing out a supply of tube types...the cost to return factor is not worth it IMO.

All my initial concerns about too little or too much gain proved to be without merit. There was neither. What I had to get my head around was getting my ears to admit that there naturally should be a substantial tone difference between a Micro Cube and a decent tube amp when the tube amp is turned up and starts to produce that desired tone. This is what results when getting used to a 2watt amp with a 5 1/2” speaker as opposed to a 15-watt tube amp through a V30! The human ear needs adjustment time.


Stratstrangler
 
Stratstrangler said:
I turned on my Dark Terror and plugged my Lester in to see how the stock JJ12ax7s preamp tubes could be induced into fizz (just as an exercise). I can do it just by lowering volume and running the gain knob up, up, up. Boosting the volume to the db level that's comfortable to the situation and room size, I tweak the gain down, down, down, until I hear no fuzz, but still have some room left to lower or raise volume with just my guitar's volume knobs.

This I've found, takes some practice of course, but also helps if you have a clear mind and a “target” tone kept in your mind.....that way you're not constantly twiddling amp and control knobs and getting frustrated. Also keep in mind, my experimet(s) are done with only a reverb pedal. I'm seeking my ideal guitar and amp only tone. Later on, if needed, is when I'll think about augmenting a good tone with some color. I don't swap tubes, because I did research my amp's tone reviews before purchase of the Dark Terror. Besides, I don't figure I can afford testing out a supply of tube types...the cost to return factor is not worth it IMO.

All my initial concerns about too little or too much gain proved to be without merit. There was neither. What I had to get my head around was getting my ears to admit that there naturally should be a substantial tone difference between a Micro Cube and a decent tube amp when the tube amp is turned up and starts to produce that desired tone. This is what results when getting used to a 2watt amp with a 5 1/2” speaker as opposed to a 15-watt tube amp through a V30! The human ear needs adjustment time.


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...


I keep finding myself cutting back on gain more and more. I would, quite honestly, cut back even more, but I lose a LOT of presence when I roll the gin off pat about 10 o'clock.

What I like about the tone in this video:

BIG, thick sound and you can feel the speaker moving air around.


What I don't like:

Too much gain still....I think, but when rolled off, that big, punchy tone rolls off too...
 
Robert, perhaps more gain than I'd use, but it sounds good in this video, even without headphones, and it's a good Marshall grind. Where were your guitar volumes? How far back do you have to roll to a fairly clear articulate tone? This was your hotter bridge pup, I'll wager. Let's hear your neck pup rolled backed for a clean and then what it sounds like up for a solo with the same amp settings.
The pedal was on too, correct?


Stratstrangler
 
Stratstrangler said:
Robert, perhaps more gain than I'd use, but it sounds good in this video, even without headphones, and it's a good Marshall grind. Where were your guitar volumes? How far back do you have to roll to a fairly clear articulate tone? This was your hotter bridge pup, I'll wager. Let's hear your neck pup rolled backed for a clean and then what it sounds like up for a solo with the same amp settings.
The pedal was on too, correct?


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...


Guitar tone and volume are full up.

Yes, the bridge pickup was used for this video - Thro-Bak SLE101 8.1kΩ Alnico II

Pedal (Boss CS-3 Compressor) in use (line Level - No Boost)

I will post up a solo video (based on your specs) by the weekend!!!!

Thanks for the input!!!
 
Robert, your welcome. If you claim you that you had a bit more gain than you want, then make an adjustment by rolling gain back a touch and simultaneously raise the channel volume a corresponding amount to keep the overall volume the same. I've been meaning to try this with my Dark Terror, just to see if I can find the “sweet spot” for my amp/guitar. This exercise might also tell me how good of a range are in my 300k Les Paul volume pots. I’m expectin' that there really is a sweet spot, perhaps more than one. Of course, I don't think my V30 speaker is quite broken in yet, but I want to get to a point where the entire rig gets “my tone”, instead of a good amp sound or a good guitar sound....if you get my meaning.


Stratstrangler
 
Stratstrangler said:
Robert, your welcome. If you claim you that you had a bit more gain than you want, then make an adjustment by rolling gain back a touch and simultaneously raise the channel volume a corresponding amount to keep the overall volume the same. I've been meaning to try this with my Dark Terror, just to see if I can find the “sweet spot” for my amp/guitar. This exercise might also tell me how good of a range are in my 300k Les Paul volume pots. I’m expectin' that there really is a sweet spot, perhaps more than one. Of course, I don't think my V30 speaker is quite broken in yet, but I want to get to a point where the entire rig gets “my tone”, instead of a good amp sound or a good guitar sound....if you get my meaning.


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...

Now here's where it gets touchy...If I roll the gain back past 10 O'clock, the tone goes thin...or, did you mean on the guitar???

Are you using 300kkΩ volumes and tones???

I'm sure this Reaper is not 100% broken in yet either!!!
 
I use 300k volume and 500k (measured more like 550) on the tones....Orange Drop caps.


I forgot that you mentioned that below 10:00 goes thinner. I that event, what would happen if you went to 11:00 ish and raised amp volume a corresponding amount? Could you then roll your guitar volume back enough to subtract the desired amount of gain? I've got to try something similar with my rig. Honestly, there is so much more to know and investigate with my rig.....I just need to sit down with a clear goal and test, test, test.


Stratstrangler
 
Last edited:
Stratstrangler said:
I use 300k volume and 500k (measured more like 550) on the tones....Orange Drop caps.


I forgot that you mentioned that below 10:00 goes thinner. I that event, what would happen if you went to 11:00 ish and raised amp, olive a corresponding amount? Could you then roll your guitar volume back enough to subtract the desired amount of gain? I've got to try something similar with my rig. Honestly, there is so much more to know and investigate with my rig.....Imjust need to sit down with a clear goal and test, test, test.


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...

I appreciate your input greatly...I am going to experiment with that this weekend...
 
Robert Herndon said:
Now here's where it gets touchy...If I roll the gain back past 10 O'clock, the tone goes thin...or, did you mean on the guitar???

Are you using 300kkΩ volumes and tones???

I'm sure this Reaper is not 100% broken in yet either!!!
Click to expand...

Here's something you may want to try.

With my DSL I use the Ultra (red) channel for high gain stuff. If I want to get a gain sound without full-on distortion, I use the Classic (green) channel with a Tubescreamer. I'll set the Classic channel just below the edge of noticeable overdrive and distortion. That way, I can play clean, airy stuff if necessary. But, I'll use the Tubescreamer on the Classic channel to push it over the top into more of a moderate overdrive, but not quite the heavy distortion on my Ultra channel. The Tubescreamer is also nice to add a little extra saturation to the Ultra channel, if necessary.

I know you like to minimize the use of gain pedals. I'm the same way. But, I do think a Tubescreamer is a good fit for a Marshall and keeps your guitar sounding pretty organic.
 
I'm a fan of the Electro-Harmonix 12ax7-evh tubes. If I had to pick a favorite they'd be it. They just seem to be a good all around tube and I've never got a bad one out of the box new. But lately I've been using the plain-jane Chinese 12ax7b tubes. I generally buy the Bugera 12ax7b tubes from Musician friends, which just means Bugera is supposed to have tested the tubes and MF is selling them pretty cheap. I don't do heavy overdrive/distortion much, so that may play into my tube picks...
 
smitty_p said:
Here's something you may want to try.

With my DSL I use the Ultra (red) channel for high gain stuff. If I want to get a gain sound without full-on distortion, I use the Classic (green) channel with a Tubescreamer. I'll set the Classic channel just below the edge of noticeable overdrive and distortion. That way, I can play clean, airy stuff if necessary. But, I'll use the Tubescreamer on the Classic channel to push it over the top into more of a moderate overdrive, but not quite the heavy distortion on my Ultra channel. The Tubescreamer is also nice to add a little extra saturation to the Ultra channel, if necessary.

I know you like to minimize the use of gain pedals. I'm the same way. But, I do think a Tubescreamer is a good fit for a Marshall and keeps your guitar sounding pretty organic.
Click to expand...

Hey, Smitty!

That might be something to experiment with. I tell you what. Im really close. I have a great mix right now. Tonally speaking its very rich. I am eager to see how the 5751 that's arriving today mixes with the 7025-WA's already in there.

I have to also give props to Trevor English at WGS for the custom 50 watt Reaper 55Hz speaker. It has way more articulation and character than the Creamback I was using.
 
Robert Herndon said:
Hey, Smitty!

That might be something to experiment with. I tell you what. Im really close. I have a great mix right now. Tonally speaking its very rich. I am eager to see how the 5751 that's arriving today mixes with the 7025-WA's already in there.
Click to expand...

I’ve tried the JAN Phillips 5751 in my little Vox.

I do like it. It is less gainy than a 12AX7, but still full sounding and not fizzy or brittle.
 
Wow!!!!!

The 5751 in V1 is amazing!!!! With the Genelex Gold Lion T12AX7 in V1, gain was over the top. I couldn't turn it down past 10 O'clock or the tone got thin.

Now I had to roll my gain up to 2 O'clock abd the tone is warmer and fuller and the 'g' stting isn't as bright/harsh as it was.

Its a big round sound!!!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top