TAD7025WA's vs. Genelex T12AX7:

I'd be interested in reading your results on using the amp's lower wattage settings. It seems with the 5751 now installed, you've discovered what the definition of “touch sensitivity” is. That's something I almost forgot about; and what I'd like to achieve for myself. I use a hybrid pick and 2 fingers approach and I'm trying to get all three to “learn” through muscle memory... just how to bring this off whereby just varying pressure on all three together or individually produces the desired distorting of individual notes. A model I use for this is Mark Knopfler. Some of his well-know songs feature that sound, but you have to have your ears tuned into it.


Stratstrangler
 
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Stratstrangler said:
I'd be interested in reading your results on using the amp's lower wattage settings. It seems with the 5751 now installed, you've discovered what the definition of “touch sensitivity” is. That's something I almost forgot about p; and what I'd like to achieve for myself. I use a hybrid pick and 2 fingers approach and I'm to get all three to “learn” through muscle memory... just how to bring this off whereby just varying pressure on all three together or individually produces the desired distorting of individual notes. A model I use for this is Mark Knopfler. Some of his well-know songs feature that sound, but you have to have your ears tuned into it.


Stratstrangler
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Right! That's something he was known for.

I'm a little nervous about trying the 20 watt setting as I have read it actually seems to increase the gain effect on these DSL40C's.

I am going to mess with it a little later today and report back...
 
Robert Herndon said:
Right! That's something he was known for.

I'm a little nervous about trying the 20 watt setting as I have read it actually seems to increase the gain effect on these DSL40C's.

I am going to mess with it a little later today and report back...
Click to expand...

Lowering the wattage won't have any effect on the gain. Gain is a function of the preamp.

It will, however, allow the power tubes to clip sooner so you'll get the crunch without having to turn the amp up as loud, and probably not need as much attenuation.
Running in half-power (triode) mode also brings out some different harmonic characteristics vs. full power (pentode), and you may find that you prefer it as it gives a more lush kind of harmonic distortion than pentode...The tradeoff is usually that pentode mode in most amps has a tighter low end and a bit quicker transient response.

The great thing is you can just flip a swich and twist some knobs to experiment. I tend to prefer my Mark 5 at full power pentode and my Mini Rec in the low power mode.
 
gball said:
Lowering the wattage won't have any effect on the gain. Gain is a function of the preamp.

It will, however, allow the power tubes to clip sooner so you'll get the crunch without having to turn the amp up as loud, and probably not need as much attenuation. Running in half-power (triode) mode also brings out some different harmonic characteristics vs. full power (pentode), and you may find that you prefer it as it gives a more lush kind of harmonic distortion than pentode...The tradeoff is usually that pentode mode in most amps has a tighter low end and a bit quicker transient response.

The great thing is you can just flip a swich and twist some knobs to experiment. I tend to prefer my Mark 5 at full power pentode and my Mini Rec in the low power mode.
Click to expand...

I wonder if this would apply to my Dark Terror? It has the usual compliment of lower power amps of this caliber; 3 x 12ax7, 2 @ EL84, and a tube to drive the loop. It is a choice between 15 and 7 Watts. At home use I’ve had it in 7 watt mode and it satisfies my tone needs without being unbearably loud (my wife tells me). I also believe that I can push volume up a bit more as the V30
becomes more broken in. It must be happening with the V30, because I sense that the clean and gain tones have less harshness than when I first started using this amp. I hope to reach a plateau where I hear very little harshness, unless I e.q. it to make it harsh.

I will experiment with the 15 watt side too. Your'e correct, at 7 Watts, I think I hear some power tube breakup happening. Who needs OD or distortion pedals with an amp this good?!


Stratstrangler
 
Stratstrangler said:
I wonder if this would apply to my Dark Terror? It has the usual compliment of lower power amps of this caliber; 3 x 12ax7, 2 @ EL84, and a tube to drive the loop. It is a choice between 15 and 7 Watts. At home use I’ve had it in 7 watt mode and it satisfies my tone needs without being unbearably loud (my wife tells me). I also believe that I can push volume up a bit more as the V30
becomes more broken in. It must be happening with the V30, because I sense that the clean and gain tones have less harshness than when I first started using this amp. I hope to reach a plateau where I hear very little harshness, unless I e.q. it to make it harsh.

I will experiment with the 15 watt side too. Your'e correct, at 7 Watts, I think I hear some power tube breakup happening. Who needs OD or distortion pedals with an amp this good?!


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...

Agreed across the board. I've played a OR-15 in the 7 watt mode (I think it has the same or a very similar power section) and it was sweet sounding.
And V30's tend to be pretty harsh until they are broken in, but once they are there is nothing better for a high gain amp.
 
gball said:
Agreed across the board. I've played a OR-15 in the 7 watt mode (I think it has the same or a very similar power section) and it was sweet sounding.
And V30's tend to be pretty harsh until they are broken in, but once they are there is nothing better for a high gain amp.
Click to expand...

My experience so far indicates this. I came close to buying the OR15, but chose to see what a high gain modern sounding Orange would bring to my playing....just worried over the clean sound of the DT. My worries were unfounded though.


Stratstrangler
 
gball said:
It will, however, allow the power tubes to clip sooner so you'll get the crunch without having to turn the amp up as loud, and probably not need as much attenuation.
Running in half-power (triode) mode also brings out some different harmonic characteristics vs. full power (pentode), and you may find that you prefer it as it gives a more lush kind of harmonic distortion than pentode...The tradeoff is usually that pentode mode in most amps has a tighter low end and a bit quicker transient response.
Click to expand...
Stratstrangler said:
I will experiment with the 15 watt side too. Your'e correct, at 7 Watts, I think I hear some power tube breakup happening.
Click to expand...
Also, a lot more compression in triode mode.
 
gball said:
Lowering the wattage won't have any effect on the gain. Gain is a function of the preamp.

It will, however, allow the power tubes to clip sooner so you'll get the crunch without having to turn the amp up as loud, and probably not need as much attenuation.
Running in half-power (triode) mode also brings out some different harmonic characteristics vs. full power (pentode), and you may find that you prefer it as it gives a more lush kind of harmonic distortion than pentode...The tradeoff is usually that pentode mode in most amps has a tighter low end and a bit quicker transient response.

The great thing is you can just flip a swich and twist some knobs to experiment. I tend to prefer my Mark 5 at full power pentode and my Mini Rec in the low power mode.
Click to expand...

Oh, that's great news!
 
Robert, I haven't listened on headphones as yet, but just over my iPad speakers, it sounds even better to me at the 20-watt setting. It seems that gball was correct with more harmonics being generated at the half power setting. I think the power tubes are more in the mix too. I think my Dark Terror @ 7 watts is doing something similar. Your amp has EL34s?


Stratstrangler
 
Stratstrangler said:
Robert, I haven't listened on headphones as yet, but just over my iPad speakers, it sounds even better to me at the 20-watt setting. It seems that gball was correct with more harmonics being generated at the half power setting. I think the power tubes are more in the mix too. I think my Dark Terror @ 7 watts is doing something similar. Your amp has EL34s?


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...

Yes. Two Electro-Harmonix EL-34'S.

Now, I'm hitting the strings really hard - too hard in fact - and I didn't even tune it beforehand, but it does seem to sound better on the 20 watt setting
 
Robert Herndon said:
Yes. Two Electro-Harmonix EL-34'S.

Now, I'm hitting the strings really hard - too hard in fact - and I didn't even tune it beforehand, but it does seem to sound better on the 20 watt setting
Click to expand...

I agree. It does sound better to my ears. I'll listen again with phones. It has that Marshall grind going on and I hear something akin to Slash's tone in there. It will take some practice to get the right picking pressure happening. I believe that “technique” is almost an art form IMO. Tricky to master.


Stratstrangler
 
Stratstrangler said:
Robert, I haven't listened on headphones as yet, but just over my iPad speakers, it sounds even better to me at the 20-watt setting. It seems that gball was correct with more harmonics being generated at the half power setting. I think the power tubes are more in the mix too. I think my Dark Terror @ 7 watts is doing something similar. Your amp has EL34s?


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...

I did find it necessary to increase gain a bit on the 20 watt setting to maintain presence...I got a lot more experimenting to do...kinda tough with all the backyard landscape projects we are doing of late here... :-)
 
Stratstrangler said:
I agree. It does sound better to my ears. I'll listen again with phones. It has that Marshall grind going on and I hear something akin to Slash's tone in there. It will take some practice to get the right picking pressure happening. I believe that “technique” is almost an art form IMO. Tricky to master.


Stratstrangler
Click to expand...

You nailed something. See, my double neck is strung with .010's and no matter how hard I hit it, the sttings sound good...they ring in pitch.

The 2016 Gibson Les Paul Studio T still has .009's on it and if I play it with the same attack that I use on .010's, it sounds "flubby" to me.
 
Now, one thing I noticed was the muted cadence on Holy Diver really has a Vivian Campbell-esque quality, in that his up-down picking technique (in that song) is really heavy handed, and its hard - if not impossible - to replicate that without a heavy handed technique.

I use a three-fingered grip on the pick for this part, picking with the side of the pick...

Additionally, I use finger vibrato on the 'D5' chord voicing to induce a "warble" which I have seen Campbell use when performing this song.

The amp really is responding to these subtle nuances, whereas before it was just mud...
 
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You're accumulating lots of knowledge to draw on when needed! Here's another thing I discovered with my Dark Terror: there are just 3 controls; volume, gain, and a shape control. The discovery I made is that the gain can change the brightness and fullness by just moving it up or down and in the same fashion, so does the shape because it's affecting the mids without moving its knob much at all and it does not affect my gain setting.

For different flavors I use not only the tip, but the side edge of a Fender medium pick. The side being a hair thicker, imparts a smoothing of the amp tone and nowhere is this more obvious then when playing with your fav gain level dialed in. I am able to get the gain bright or subdued by just switching to what side of the pick I feel will do it. I tend to not throw away my picks too often. I keep feeling the edges of my pick with my fingers whether its' “matured” so to speak. I've tried using smoothing them with a really fine grit emory board, but they never get so smooth as when the pick just gets its patina from the metal string just through constant playing.

I really enjoy discovering all these in between flavors of playing with what the gain gives me at any particular gain level. This is what tube amp lovers love about their amps; be it Marshall, Orange, Mesa, etc., and why they prefer tubes for Rock and Classic Rock music. Digital amps never quite allow the smoothing of a tone in the same manner.


Classicplayer
 
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Robert Herndon said:
You nailed something. See, my double neck is strung with .010's and no matter how hard I hit it, the sttings sound good...they ring in pitch.

The 2016 Gibson Les Paul Studio T still has .009's on it and if I play it with the same attack that I use on .010's, it sounds "flubby" to me.
Click to expand...

I do better with .010 gauge strings. I have not played .009s for many years for the same reason as you.


Classicplayer
 
Stratstrangler said:
You're accumulating lots of knowledge to draw on when needed! Here's another thing I discovered with my Dark Terror: there are just 3 controls; volume, gain, and a shape control. The discovery I made is that the gain can change the brightness and fullness by just moving it up or down and in the same fashion, so does the shape because it's affecting the mids without moving its knob much at all and it does not affect my gain setting.

For different flavors I use not only the tip, but the side edge of a Fender medium pick. The side being a hair thicker, imparts a smoothing of the amp tone and nowhere is this more obvious then when playing with your fav gain level dialed in. I am able to get the gain bright or subdued by just switching to what side of the pick I feel will do it. I tend to not throw away my picks too often. I keep feeling the edges of my pick with my fingers whether its' “matured” so to speak. I've tried using smoothing them with a really fine grit emory board, but they never get so smooth as when the pick just gets its patina from the metal string just through constant playing.

Classicplayer
Click to expand...

Good observations, and the gain really does shape my tone on the DSL40C as well.

Here's the three-fingered hold:

Pick.jpg
 
I think I have learned more about what I like and don't like in my time here, than in my previous 10 years of playing...
 
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