REALITY of tone vs $
- Thread starter eSGEe
- Start date
GFS (Guitar Fetish) products are good quality. I have their pickups in my 87 Stratocaster. I have a GFS double slug bridge humbucker (13.9k) and a pair of their hum cancelling single coils (Tru Coils) a 10k in the middle and a 7k in the neck position. I paid less than $50 for all three pickups and wired them up myself. Been very pleased....
P.S. they also sell pre-wired pickguards already loaded with the pickups of your choice...
P.S. they also sell pre-wired pickguards already loaded with the pickups of your choice...
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
I will agree there are some good pick ups out there for a lower $$, but my very best pick ups were not low cost...and I'm telling you when you play the guitar and hear them you will notice RIGHT away. No doubt in a blind test you could pick them out. They are just so damn good sounding and have a real bite full range of tone...a LOT of Beans were used in them...
What are they you ask...my Bernie Marsden Beast Buckers...I have yet to hear anything "I" like nearly as well. They will soon be leaving my Les Paul Traditional and moving into my R8...
What are they you ask...my Bernie Marsden Beast Buckers...I have yet to hear anything "I" like nearly as well. They will soon be leaving my Les Paul Traditional and moving into my R8...
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
I'll agree that the GFS stuff sounds great for the money. But...I have to say it, the best sounding set of pickups I have in any guitar is a pair of Jonesy Blues PAFs. One tiny step down from them are the '57's in my LP and the MFD's in my ASAT, which are not exactly budget pieces. I do think to some extent you get what you pay for, but that doesn't mean I will only consider more costly pickups - heck, I am giving serious consideration to putting a set of GFS mini-hums in my Firebird because I think the guitar would rock with the additional bottom-end of a mini over the F'birds.
Well, I'm quite undecided. I've had Fralin, Lollar, Porter, Benson and even a $2,000USD pair of early Gibson PAF's, and I firmly believe that only a very few people can hear the subtle nuances between them....and quite honestly, none of them really impressed me.
These experiences are why I chose to try GFS as opposed to a high dollar, boutique pickup....
These experiences are why I chose to try GFS as opposed to a high dollar, boutique pickup....
These arrived today....well made...lots of wax....
Let me say this...I have bought, and subsequently dissected, original PAF's. I have bugged Seymour Duncan with a barrage of questions. I have had Carvin wind pickups for me. I have used some of the most expensive humbuckers available. I have also built pickups from scratch from Stewie Mac components.
In the end, I leaned this:
You have Alinco II or 5 magnets. Enamel or poly coated wires. High impedance or low impedance. Balanced or unbalanced coils. Potted or unpotted.
The reality is that all pickups are made within these parameters. The only true "Holy Grail" is in the player.
Case in point.
I personally sat next to Buck Owen"s lead guitarist, Terry Christopherson, in 1978 (during a recording session) and watched him play a cheap Harmony Les Paul copy, and extract unreal tones from it.
After all the experimentation, I always come back to this singular fact....
In the end, I leaned this:
You have Alinco II or 5 magnets. Enamel or poly coated wires. High impedance or low impedance. Balanced or unbalanced coils. Potted or unpotted.
The reality is that all pickups are made within these parameters. The only true "Holy Grail" is in the player.
Case in point.
I personally sat next to Buck Owen"s lead guitarist, Terry Christopherson, in 1978 (during a recording session) and watched him play a cheap Harmony Les Paul copy, and extract unreal tones from it.
After all the experimentation, I always come back to this singular fact....
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Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
I totally understand and agree...to a point.
When a player is THAT good they can wring tone from anything...but us scrubs need all the help we can get. And I for one can hear the difference in PUP's when I play.
Certain of my guitars also feel better in my hands and thus sound better when I play them...
I need more BEANS!!!
RVA
Ambassador
The biggest inexpensive surprise I have gotten lately is the Kent Armstrong P90s made overseas. $50 for a used set and they sound great. I would encourage anyone to try them.
I must say that Bare Knuckle Pickups live up to the hype. Whether they are worth the price is a personal decision, but they always sound special.
I must say that Bare Knuckle Pickups live up to the hype. Whether they are worth the price is a personal decision, but they always sound special.
I too am a fan of keeping as much of my $$$ in my pockets as possible.
And decent quality inexpensive pickups are my go to choice.
Like others I have had good luck and been very satisfied GFS, Dragonfire and Artec pups.
Just recently tried a set of soapbar P90's from Guitar Madness in my latest project. ($28.60 a pair) Alnico 5 magnets & wax potted. So far so good.
They sound like a P90...
I'm not a Doberman.
I can't hear the difference between a paper or plastic bobbin in a pickup.
Nor can I hear the difference between Formvar or any other coating on pup wire.
I can't hear the difference between 42awg & 43awg wire.
I CAN hear the difference between ceramic & alnico maginets.
And I do believe wax potting makes for a quieter and easier to control pickup.
Some may argue that an unpotted pup has a fuller sound.
So on that basic criteria, I base my choices.
I'm an old dude with hearing that has been compromised by a lifetime of working on noisy equipment and playing with handguns.
Not to mention years of drunken bar jams that turn into volume fests by the end of the night.
I believe that if it works & I like it, that's all that really matters to me.
And decent quality inexpensive pickups are my go to choice.
Like others I have had good luck and been very satisfied GFS, Dragonfire and Artec pups.
Just recently tried a set of soapbar P90's from Guitar Madness in my latest project. ($28.60 a pair) Alnico 5 magnets & wax potted. So far so good.
They sound like a P90...
I'm not a Doberman.
I can't hear the difference between a paper or plastic bobbin in a pickup.
Nor can I hear the difference between Formvar or any other coating on pup wire.
I can't hear the difference between 42awg & 43awg wire.
I CAN hear the difference between ceramic & alnico maginets.
And I do believe wax potting makes for a quieter and easier to control pickup.
Some may argue that an unpotted pup has a fuller sound.
So on that basic criteria, I base my choices.
I'm an old dude with hearing that has been compromised by a lifetime of working on noisy equipment and playing with handguns.
Not to mention years of drunken bar jams that turn into volume fests by the end of the night.
I believe that if it works & I like it, that's all that really matters to me.
RVA
Ambassador
I do agree with everything you said. Even more so, when I came across this blind test of alnico v ceramic, I was certain I would nail it. I failed. Give it a try.
RVA
Ambassador
Wow, really?! A pup swap already!! You are a bold man! Want to borrow my Dremel? It did wonders for my R6, but your guitar does not have that problem. Where are the burstbuckers going?
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I don't think I can hear AWG. Thicker wire has more resistance per foot than thinner wire, but the difference isn't detectable.
What I hear are nuances...and I look for these things.
Unplugged tone - the guitar must have a very acoustic quality. Rich and vibrant with lots of felt vibration and no fret buzz. Intonation must be 100% correct.
Quiet operation, lack of buzz, hum or "white noise." Lack of clicks or pops when touching the pickups.
Non-Overdriven Tone - clear, not twangy or sharp. Not muddy. Rich, balanced overall tone, even string to string balance. I usually play "Stairway to Heaven" or the intro to "Hotel California" to evaluate the clean sound.
Overdriven Tone: Full, clear, no muddiness, balanced lows/mids/highs, even string-to-string balance, thickness that still retains its "edge," such as a high-gain open 'G' chord, where the E/A/D are very fat and crunchy, but the g/b/e ring out with almost low-gain clarity - the "right" pickup, to my ear, will sound like two guitars playing at the same time.
For example, an open 'G' should sound like Dave Mustaine playing the E/A/D and the g/b/e of that chord should sound like Malcolm Young is strumming it.
The two spectrums of tone are clearly divided in my head and I'm listening to each string simultaneously. I can hear if intonation is out, or if the pickup is creating string pull.
Next is high volume behavior. This involves overdriven tone at a volume level of 5-7 on a tube Marshall at a distance of less than 6 feet from the front of the amp.
I will often walk back and forth, without playing any notes, just to evaluate the guitar's behavior.
If the guitar is well mannered (no squealing or other anomalies) I will start playing leads, usually the full lead to "Hotel California" (my warm up routine) and completely re-evaluate the guitar's tone all over again.
My biggest concern here is the guitar is controllable and has the same tonal depth and fullness at elevated stage volume...it simply must not get thin or "screachy" at high volume.
Case in point - my 2016 Gibson SG T Series with unpotted, vintage wound (7-8k) '490' humbuckers.
My first live performance with it, a few weekends ago, was irritating.
The SG has great tone...except on a small stage with floor monitors. In this situation, where the band was generating high stage volumes (without a PA or sound tech) the SG sounded very thin and bright...almost Telecaster-ish, and the minute I stopped strumming, it began to feedback wildly.
I immediately switched to my 2005 Schecter C1 Hellraiser with EMG'S (81 & 85) which are noiseless and do not feedback, so the outdoor gig (two 4 hour repeat sets with a 90 minute break between) went off without a hitch.
This experience is what has led me to change the pickups in my SG. I decided to ditch the open bobbins for a traditional covered PAF style pickup.
Seth Lover wrote that the covers reduced the high frequency response from the pickups and also made them quieter, which makes sense to my ears, and reflects my experiences with PAF's (styles) in general.
So, when choosing my pickups, I knew, based on this live performance, I wanted certain things...
Impedance - since my 490's sound great, I did not want any overwound pickups. The 490T is around 7.8k and the 490R is about 7.7k, (what many call "Vintage Wound," because that's close to original PAF specs) so this was a huge part of my selection criterion.
I also wanted to stay with Alinco II because I always, always, always find them to have smoother overall tonal response.
Next is the cover. You want to avoid magnetic covers! I prefer German silver that is nickel plated. Avoid chrome.
Next was full wax potting to eliminate/control feedback.
I considered a lot of pickups...but what I found from GFS had everything I was looking for.
The Classic II's are vintage wound to 8.2k (bridge) and 7.8k (neck) and have nickel plated, German silver covers. They are also double wax potted, meaning the space between the bobbins and the cover is filled with wax, which is an important feature of feedback control.
So, these GFS' cost me $90USD shipped for the pair and they had every feature that I was looking for...and that's why I bought them.
Now, I just need to get them installed...
What I hear are nuances...and I look for these things.
Unplugged tone - the guitar must have a very acoustic quality. Rich and vibrant with lots of felt vibration and no fret buzz. Intonation must be 100% correct.
Quiet operation, lack of buzz, hum or "white noise." Lack of clicks or pops when touching the pickups.
Non-Overdriven Tone - clear, not twangy or sharp. Not muddy. Rich, balanced overall tone, even string to string balance. I usually play "Stairway to Heaven" or the intro to "Hotel California" to evaluate the clean sound.
Overdriven Tone: Full, clear, no muddiness, balanced lows/mids/highs, even string-to-string balance, thickness that still retains its "edge," such as a high-gain open 'G' chord, where the E/A/D are very fat and crunchy, but the g/b/e ring out with almost low-gain clarity - the "right" pickup, to my ear, will sound like two guitars playing at the same time.
For example, an open 'G' should sound like Dave Mustaine playing the E/A/D and the g/b/e of that chord should sound like Malcolm Young is strumming it.
The two spectrums of tone are clearly divided in my head and I'm listening to each string simultaneously. I can hear if intonation is out, or if the pickup is creating string pull.
Next is high volume behavior. This involves overdriven tone at a volume level of 5-7 on a tube Marshall at a distance of less than 6 feet from the front of the amp.
I will often walk back and forth, without playing any notes, just to evaluate the guitar's behavior.
If the guitar is well mannered (no squealing or other anomalies) I will start playing leads, usually the full lead to "Hotel California" (my warm up routine) and completely re-evaluate the guitar's tone all over again.
My biggest concern here is the guitar is controllable and has the same tonal depth and fullness at elevated stage volume...it simply must not get thin or "screachy" at high volume.
Case in point - my 2016 Gibson SG T Series with unpotted, vintage wound (7-8k) '490' humbuckers.
My first live performance with it, a few weekends ago, was irritating.
The SG has great tone...except on a small stage with floor monitors. In this situation, where the band was generating high stage volumes (without a PA or sound tech) the SG sounded very thin and bright...almost Telecaster-ish, and the minute I stopped strumming, it began to feedback wildly.
I immediately switched to my 2005 Schecter C1 Hellraiser with EMG'S (81 & 85) which are noiseless and do not feedback, so the outdoor gig (two 4 hour repeat sets with a 90 minute break between) went off without a hitch.
This experience is what has led me to change the pickups in my SG. I decided to ditch the open bobbins for a traditional covered PAF style pickup.
Seth Lover wrote that the covers reduced the high frequency response from the pickups and also made them quieter, which makes sense to my ears, and reflects my experiences with PAF's (styles) in general.
So, when choosing my pickups, I knew, based on this live performance, I wanted certain things...
Impedance - since my 490's sound great, I did not want any overwound pickups. The 490T is around 7.8k and the 490R is about 7.7k, (what many call "Vintage Wound," because that's close to original PAF specs) so this was a huge part of my selection criterion.
I also wanted to stay with Alinco II because I always, always, always find them to have smoother overall tonal response.
Next is the cover. You want to avoid magnetic covers! I prefer German silver that is nickel plated. Avoid chrome.
Next was full wax potting to eliminate/control feedback.
I considered a lot of pickups...but what I found from GFS had everything I was looking for.
The Classic II's are vintage wound to 8.2k (bridge) and 7.8k (neck) and have nickel plated, German silver covers. They are also double wax potted, meaning the space between the bobbins and the cover is filled with wax, which is an important feature of feedback control.
So, these GFS' cost me $90USD shipped for the pair and they had every feature that I was looking for...and that's why I bought them.
Now, I just need to get them installed...
MadMatt
Member
My guitars all have seymore duncan pickups, but I buy them used on they 'bay.
I don't recall the sticker priceon new versions, but I only ended up paying 50~60 dollars per pickup, which I know is much more affordable.
I really believe, if at all possible with musical gear, used is the way to go. It saves money, and there is less risk of having to take a loss if I have to resell it.
I don't recall the sticker priceon new versions, but I only ended up paying 50~60 dollars per pickup, which I know is much more affordable.
I really believe, if at all possible with musical gear, used is the way to go. It saves money, and there is less risk of having to take a loss if I have to resell it.
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
Well...I think I'll stay away from the dremel...and I already have a huge Foredom that will kick a dremels a$$!
As for the swap...I want to PLAY my R8 not just look at it like a few out there do. So I want the PUP's I love best in it.
The PUP's in the R8 are actually Custombuckers and they are "Said" to be better than Burstbuckers...
The Custombuckers will either sit around to keep the R8 originality intact or go in the Traditional??? I have a few good sets lying around including a set consisting of a Wolftone Dr Vintage and a Wolftone Marshallhead
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
Wow! You really know what you are looking for and your ability to hear the nuances WAY surpasses mine. I must admit my ears are not what they used to be and many of my guitars seem to sound very much the same...but the few that are truly different are the ones I gravitate to...
It's amazing with all those criteria that you were able to find a set for $90. I hope they meet your expectations when installed. I have found a few times that what I heard on a demo or someone else guitar that I could not replicate it with the same PUP's in my guitar. The Beastbuckers were the exception for me and hopefully the GFS will give you exactly what you are looking for!
Here's hoping they blow you away...Now GO get them installed!!!
