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Inspector #20

Inspector #20

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Ok, so on the DSl40C Doug from Doug's Tubes claims that by using this combination, you can greatly improve the DSL40C's tone:

V1 - Tung-Sol 12AX7

V2 - Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG

V3 - Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG

V4 - Sovtek 12AX7 LPS

So, I was going through my tubes to see what i actually have on hand that might be close to these in terms of gain.

I have an oddball ECC823 - which is a low/high gain tube, so we will leave this one out for now.

I have the following:

(1) Russian made Genelex Gold Lion (B759?) T12AX7

(4) Red marshall Labeled ECC83's

(1) JJ-5751

(1) JJ-ECC83MG

(4) 7025-WA's

Ok, so when looking at the chart at Amplified Parts, and comparing the tubes Dave recommended, I see this:

The Tung-Sol T12AX7 has a gain factor of about 5.7

The Ruby 12AX7AC5HG's have a gain rating of about 4.3

The Sovtek 12AX7LPS has a gain factor of about 7.3

Then, I compared my tubes:

Genelex Gold Lion has a gain factor of 10.0

JJ-ECC83's have a gain factor of 7.3

TAD 7025 WA's have gain factor of 3.0

JJ-ECC83MG has a gain factor of 4.3

JJ-5751 has a gain factor of 3.7

I know I have tried the JJ ECC832 and the JJ 5751 both in V1 and V2 and still had a lot of mud if I pushed red channel gain over about 12pm.

Based on the tubes I have on hand, what seems like a good rollout to try next????





 
Gain factor... Gain shmactor... Don't get all hung up on those numbers too much. There are other factors within the construction of a tube, like the 12AX7, that effects how an amp's circuit is going to respond.

Dougs Tubes been around for awhile now. Last I heard, is they still have a good reputation. I say... Do some business with them! These combo of tubes just might be the ticket to some DSL nirvana. None of the tubes you have right now are like the ones that Doug's is recommending.
 
syscokid said:
Gain factor... Gain shmactor... Don't get all hung up on those numbers too much. There are other factors within the construction of a tube, like the 12AX7, that effects how an amp's circuit is going to respond.

Dougs Tubes been around for awhile now. Last I heard, is they still have a good reputation. I say... Do some business with them! These combo of tubes just might be the ticket to some DSL nirvana. None of the tubes you have right now are like the ones that Doug's is recommending.
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I agree. But after managing and paying for so many things in Central America, things are tight, so I was going to experiment with what I have on hand until we recover...
 
@syscokid - of interesting note, I pulled the B759 Gold Lion out of the VS265 and replaced it with a regular, Marshall-branded ECC83.

In comparison to the B759, i had less overall gain and could "dime" the gain without any muddiness.
 
Chart or no chart I say stick 'em in a socket and see which you like best. Buy two sets of the same tubes from the same company and there's still a good chance they'll sound a bit different in the same amp. At least that's been my experience. Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes no so much...
 
smitty_p said:
Improve the tone how?
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Robert Herndon said:
More useable gain without mud
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Hopefully, that was meant in "improve the tone"! I just got thru surfing Doug's Tubes website. Those four preamp tubes recommended by DT is just a general recommendation for any tube amp with four preamp tubes... and not specific to the DSL40.

Robert... Have you ever heard a demo of a DSL40 using extreme gain that you like?
 
syscokid said:
Hopefully, that was meant in "improve the tone"! I just got thru surfing Doug's Tubes website. Those four preamp tubes recommended by DT is just a general recommendation for any tube amp with four preamp tubes... and not specific to the DSL40.

Robert... Have you ever heard a demo of a DSL40 using extreme gain that you like?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure. To be honest, my head is still a whirlwind after getting back from Central America, and maybe I should just take a break until my head is clearer...
 
syscokid said:
Hopefully, that was meant in "improve the tone"! I just got thru surfing Doug's Tubes website. Those four preamp tubes recommended by DT is just a general recommendation for any tube amp with four preamp tubes... and not specific to the DSL40.

Robert... Have you ever heard a demo of a DSL40 using extreme gain that you like?
Click to expand...

I'm really not convinced that my tone is that extreme.

On my VS265, I can nail it with a stock 1997 White Label Marshall ECC83 with the gain at 12 noon.

The problem with the DSL40C - and Don O confirmed this on his own DSL40C - is when you roll up enough gain, palm muted sections - especially F# - are a muddy mess.
 
Robert Herndon said:
The problem with the DSL40C - and Don O confirmed this on his own DSL40C - is when you roll up enough gain, palm muted sections - especially F# - are a muddy mess.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'm trying to understand better: Are you desiring for more gain from your DSL that you could use in a live performance and/or recording scenarios? Or... Do you have enough useable gain, but knowing there is more gain on tap that is not useable really bugs you about your satisfaction with the amp?
 
Robert Herndon said:
The problem with the DSL40C - and Don O confirmed this on his own DSL40C - is when you roll up enough gain, palm muted sections - especially F# - are a muddy mess.
Click to expand...

I said it before and I will say it again: you are fighting a losing battle against the amps fundamental nature/sound. I honestly, truly believe, that if you don't love the way an amp sounds 100% stock, then it's not the amp for you and no amount of mods, tube rolling or speaker changes are going to alter it's baked-in, as-designed character. Time to cut your losses and move on.

I wouldn't change a thing about my Mk5 right out of the box. Not one tube, not one knob, and I do feel that's the only way you can be happy with an amp long-term.
 
syscokid said:
Ok, I'm trying to understand better: Are you desiring for more gain from your DSL that you could use in a live performance and/or recording scenarios? Or... Do you have enough useable gain, but knowing there is more gain on tap that is not useable really bugs you about your satisfaction with the amp?
Click to expand...

I only record with a Blackstar. The DSL40C has only ever been used for live work. I can't get enough gain without getting mud.
 
gball said:
I said it before and I will say it again: you are fighting a losing battle against the amps fundamental nature/sound. I honestly, truly believe, that if you don't love the way an amp sounds 100% stock, then it's not the amp for you and no amount of mods, tube rolling or speaker changes are going to alter it's baked-in, as-designed character. Time to cut your losses and move on.

I wouldn't change a thing about my Mk5 right out of the box. Not one tube, not one knob, and I do feel that's the only way you can be happy with an amp long-term.
Click to expand...

You are probably right and I will most likely trade it in or give it to a student just to be rid of the headache once and for all.
 
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