Observation on Live Tone:

RVA said:
Sorry to go off topic a bit, but Alex's playing up close

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OK Ray, since you started it and unless anyone else wants the crown as the biggest Rush geek here, I will claim it and ask a few questions. I'd like to also post a few observations based on this video clip and what my limitations as a pro player like Alex and some of you are here.

1st is my question for RVA. Could you expound upon your statement:
RVA said:
No comment either way, but it is an interesting video upon which to form an opinion
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2nd I will post a few things I hear and some that I see based on the vid.
Knowing some techniques Alex is known for, the video only tells half the story. In many sections of the clip, we see his left hand either playing single note lead type portions, and at others, power chords.
But what I feel is a big key to Alex's tone and trademark is in his Arpeggio work. The missing 1/2 of the vid is when it cuts away from his right hand work. If one listens carefully, they can hear the individual notes within the chords.

3rd comes his Lead play. To me it is Alex's phrasing, his pause,,his buildups and then his flurry of sound. Much of this comes from his ear first, fingers second, whammy, pedals and pure mastery of timing.

Here is a write up on his style.
How to play guitar like Alex Lifeson from Rush | MusicRadar
 
Robert Herndon said:
You are spot-on Gahr. Allow me to clarify a bit. When I have played smaller venues, where everyone is mic'd, it is possible to preserve every nuance.

Recently, I've found myself more and more playing larger indoor (and outdoor venues) where there is no PA system except for the vocalist. In these situations, I'm running the amp close to flat out - even though we have a good mix.

The huge backyard parties - where we are setup either on the cool deck or a tennis court- are very challenging because the acoustics are virtually non-existent and they want to hear the music at the bar area.

What I have noticed is, I am beginning to care less and less about the guitar I am playing from a "nuance" standpoint and just focusing on playing.

All three of my guitars (VH/SG/LP) have identical neck profiles and scale length, which I love. It's just something I need to have to feel comfortable.

I took the LP and SG both to rehearsal yesterday because one was tuned A-440 and the other Eb. For live playing, That's my only criterion for having more than one guitar.

In the studio, I often pick up the DoubleNeck because its a thicker, meatier, sound and on a recording, you will hear it.

But live, it really doesn't matter in this genre. All three of my guitars perform the same tonally, and in that case, I will often choose the VH Double Neck for it's stage presence.

A while back, I was playing a private party on an estate in Rancho Mirage. The set list was drafted by the host and it included lots of obscure covers from the 1980's and a lot of it was hard rock. I got pulled in as a fill-in.

Initially the band was playing like they were sleepy and the crowd was really disconnected. I can't explain it any better than that. So, I told the bandleader, let's go off the sheet and wake them up.

I cranked my DSL40C and hit the intro to Cat Scratch Fever (right after a Toto number) so loudly that people literally jumped and I played as if I was trying to saw through my guitar with the pic. The crowd literally exploded and we went on and off list for the rest of the event. The finale was Motorhead's Ace of Spades followed by Hotel California as a closing number.

I played with total abandon - I mean literally flat out - and not all that cleanly either, and that energy was somehow infused into the crowd and the band picked it up too and it became a very energetic performance.

Aside from my pay that night, the host tipped me $700.00

So, I'm finding that I seem to earn more - and people comment more often -when I play more like Mr. Page. I am sure many guitarists would criticize the "wild" (even sloppy at times) playing, but that seems more and more what people are asking for.

Now at a winery...you really have to pull back, and here's where you can hear the difference between a Les Paul and a Stratocaster, but you also are not taking home big rolls of dough. Winery's almost always pay by check and a lot of dudes comp food and drink out of their fee and largely play for free, although some do offer the band free food and drink, not all do.

I suppose I have got to the point where I'm just playing to the crowd and ignoring the guitar players who may be in the crowd - since the guitarists are not the ones paying my bills. :)

I still have no clue where this musical journey will lead, but I hope it leads to a band home...
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Sounds like you’re doing something right, Robert!
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
1st is my question for RVA. Could you expound upon your statement:
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I just think it is rare to get such an closeup on a famous players hands for that long a period of time. It was similar to a Truefire lesson, except the names there are not nearly as big as Alex. The "no comment" part is simply because, unlike you, I have not spent any time studying his technique beyond this video and it would be unfair of me to render an opinion.
 
Alex Lifeson: Rush's Prog Master - Guitar Techniques Magazine - January 2014

In addition to my comments about Alex Lifeson, I have read Robert's description of his experiences. I see his points based on his venues, clientele, bandmates, and equipment used and how he tweaks them to get his best result.

To make a comparison I have found that also links to Rush of old vs the 2000's Rush I went to see live within the last 10+ years. I can only describe things as going from articulate clarity of the instruments, to muddled, bogging down or blurry mush of sound. One concert I could attribute to the venue. The place sucks acoustically. But I would also think that in 40+ years of toring, Rush certainly would have sound men capable of clearing up the mud. It was not the case here.
If anyone has insight on why could they get good tone in the 70's and 80's vs lousy live sound in the 2000's, please do tell. I also can see, if professional sound men can make or break a band's performance, what are hired guns like us and Robert to do if we are essentially sound checking our gear straight thru amps and out into the various venues plus squeezing the best playing and best set list we can muster to give the crowd what they came for?

Thanks
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
Alex Lifeson: Rush's Prog Master - Guitar Techniques Magazine - January 2014

In addition to my comments and these links about Alex Lifeson, I have read Robert's description of his experiences. I see his points based on his venues, clientele, bandmates, and equipment used and how he tweaks them to get his best result.

To make a comparison I have found that also links to Rush of old vs the Rush I went to see live within the last 10+ years. I can only describe things as going from articulate clarity of the instruments, to muddled, bogging down or blurry mush of sound. One concert I could attribute to the venue. The place sucks acoustically. But I would also think that in 40+ years of toring, Rush certainly would have sound men capable of clearing up the mud. It was not the case here.
If anyone has insight on why could they get good tone in the 70's and 80's vs lousy live sound in the 2000's, please do tell. Thanks
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Could it be the size of the venues and the concert volumes?
 
RVA said:
I just think it is rare to get such an closeup on a famous players hands for that long a period of time. It was similar to a Truefire lesson, except the names there are not nearly as big as Alex. The "no comment" part is simply because, unlike you, I have not spent any time studying his technique beyond this video and it would be unfair of me to render an opinion.
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As I get older musically, I find myself, more and more, becomming disenchanted with guitar players I once held in very high regard.

I am very fond of Blackmore's style....and this seems to remain constant....
 
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Gahr said:
Could it be the size of the venues and the concert volumes?
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As for size of venue. Let me make a comparison and then say why I had the confusion and less than stellar reaction to concert venue selections. I have seen Rush at indoor as well as outdoor venues which range from 12000-15000 person Ice Hockey/ Basketball arenas like the Baltimore Civic Center ( Now Royal Farms Arena), the Capitol Center in Largo Md which is now razed, on up to the almost 50K seating of the Syracuse Carrier Dome. All of these shows had excellent sound in my opinion.

But it was the Snakes and Arrows tour, which will be my last concert I will ever go to at Nissan/Jiffy Lube Live Pavillion with it's seating of 25k that absolutely had the muddiest sound ever. For comparison, I will say I saw Rush again shortly after that at The Royal Farms arena. The sound was decent there and I could hear their playing nicely again. However, I still felt as if Geddy on the Jazz bass was not up to his Rickenbacker days thump and sound wise.

Contrast my experience at Nissan/Jiffy Lube Live, to that of the Westmoreland Fairgrounds at Latrobe Pennsylvania for the first 2 Rolling Rock Town Fair Festivals.
I estimated the crowd to be 100K or better and in the hottest of humid 95-100 degree heat imaginable, yet bands such as LIVE, Chilipeppers, STP, Incubus, Moby, Fuel, Filter, Staind, Tantric, Deftones etc.
Neither RRTF 2000 or 2001 disappointed.

Listen to this sound of RHCP I can hear every note, every drum beat, every bass note just like it comes thru the board is how it sounded in that sea of bodies I was in.

 
Now I know one might say this is from a cell phone recording or something, but as it sounds here is like it sounded when I saw this show. I know the Rolling Rock concert footage sound was likely off the board for pro footage, but that is exactly how it sounded when I was in the crowd. Same as this Rush sounded at Jiffy Lube, Muddy as hail.
Can you even hear Geddy's bass or Neil?


 
For Contrast I post the PINK POP 1979 Rush.

One can clearly hear Neil, Alex AND GEDDY.


Another example of them sounding their best. I am sure the sound quality here is due to this likely being for the DVD or something being professionally shot. However, it shows how tone is supposed to sound.

 
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Hahaha, you sure like your Rush, chili! I see your point. Venues have different acoustics, but you would think an experienced sound crew could fix at least some of the problems.

What I know of' sho' is that for me to be able to play like Alex Leifson would require two things:

1. Me dying.
2. Me being born again an incredibly much more talented guitarist.
 
Robert Herndon said:
I played with total abandon - I mean literally flat out - and not all that cleanly either, and that energy was somehow infused into the crowd and the band picked it up too and it became a very energetic performance.
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Robert, I know you have a hard time with Geddy Lee's voice, so I am sure you won't enjoy this next clip,
but I would say that Chi ( bass) and Abe Cunningham ( drums) and Chino singing, held nothing back at this show.
I was there but missed it to take a Pee break. I can now only see the clips on the computer and on a VHS I recorded of the PPV of portions of the show we bought the next day.


Needless to say I give the Deftones a lot of credit for the energy and vibe their tone and playing conveyed here. The crowd surely got their money's worth.

 
Gahr said:
Hahaha, you sure like your Rush, chili! I see your point. Venues have different acoustics, but you would think an experienced sound crew could fix at least some of the problems.

What I know of' sho' is that for me to be able to play like Alex Leifson would require two things:

1. Me dying.
2. Me being born again an incredibly much more talented guitarist.
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From sound clips I hear of your playing and singing, you make nice music, Gahr. I'd have no regrets with your skills.
 
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