I totally understand.
Like I said, it’s probably not an issue in most cases, but I’ve decided, for myself, to focus on separate head and cabinet setups. Of course, I use an iso-cab, so I pretty much have no choice!
Let's Discuss Potential Combo Amps???
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I totally understand.
Like I said, it’s probably not an issue in most cases, but I’ve decided, for myself, to focus on separate head and cabinet setups. Of course, I use an iso-cab, so I pretty much have no choice!
OP
Well, that's a valid point.
I'm having a tough time finding a NIB MG102GFX, or any decent one for that matter.
The next obvious solution would be the head version - MG100HDFX.
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
Had one -- GREAT TONES --
OP
I used my owned since new 1999 MG50RCD Saturday night.
froman5150
Well-Known Member
I forgot about this the Legend rock and roll 50 was supposed to be the holy grail , touted by billy gibbons , I had the chance to play through one when I was 17 a friend of mine had a buddy who owned a music shop in the next county who had one in his collection , it didn't disappoint it had that zz top texas fuzz and was loud as hell for a 1×12 Legend Rock n Roll 50 1980/81 Natural Wood | Fontana Custom Instruments | Reverb
old rocker
Well-Known Member
Billy's great at 2 things Playing in a Band & lying about his gear
,oh & i'm a die hard Gibbons fan.old rocker
Well-Known Member
If you're considering a small Head with your 2 x 12", what about a used Black Spirit 200 or a Blug Amp 1, i've owned the older generation Amp1,but not the newer Mercury & it gets very close to classic Marshall tones, while the Clean channel is very Fendery & the Mercury seems to be closer to newer gen Marshall & the BS200 is said to be very close to a GM40 & dems would support this, both can be bought at very reasonable prices used,just trying to confuse the picture even more
.
OP
OP
If you're considering a small Head with your 2 x 12", what about a used Black Spirit 200 or a Blug Amp 1, i've owned the older generation Amp1,but not the newer Mercury & it gets very close to classic Marshall tones, while the Clean channel is very Fendery & the Mercury seems to be closer to newer gen Marshall & the BS200 is said to be very close to a GM40 & dems would support this, both can be bought at very reasonable prices used,just trying to confuse the picture even more
A forum member (@STU) has a really nice Marshall SS Head. We've been chatting about it. I'd love to have a MG102GFX 2x12 Combo, (a combo would suit my needs the best and eliminate an amp and cabinet from my libeup) but I've only found ONE MG102GFX in the world, brand new in the box, and the $799.00 pricetage is more than I can swing...
froman5150
Well-Known Member
Billy's great at 2 things Playing in a Band & lying about his gear
Engineer: Billy Gibbons’ Eliminator Gear : WoodyTone!
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
Sounded fine for what it was, and I have always said it was probably the best practice amp I have had in some ways since it had onboard effects, but it lost the plot quickly when turned up. And even as a low volume solution I have moved on - just could never bond with a SS or modeling amp. I got a little Marshall DSL-1c and a small pedalboard to go with it and very happy. Now I have a small-volume amp that sounds like a real (tube) amp because it is a real amp.
old rocker
Well-Known Member
I have read so many different equipment lists from his old recording Engineers about Billy using Gibson vs Fender Guitars & Marshall vs Fender etc,etc,etc, Amps , i don't believe a word of itEngineer: Billy Gibbons’ Eliminator Gear : WoodyTone!
www.woodytone.com
, Billy is the Master of gear spin (he even tells porkies about his plec 
) , such as on one of their "Old Grey Whistle Test" performances in the UK he said he found an old Radio in the Studio & used that for his Guitar sound ,by the way have you heard his sound & playing on the Live Tube performance from '83(uk TV show) ?, for me it still ranks as the best live TV Guitar sound i've heard .I'm not having a go at Billy i think he's THE Best gigging big name Guitar player i've ever seen & i'm old & have seen a lot
, but i believe that all these stories about this & that gear used for this & that are just stories.I doubt that any Pro level Player uses off the shelf equipment, without mods or tweaks,even i use modded gear & i'm just an old arsed Pub player
.
OP
I doubt that any Pro level Player uses off the shelf equipment, without mods or tweaks,even i use modded gear & i'm just an old arsed Pub player
@old rocker - check out my post "Borrowed Mesa Fillmore."
froman5150
Well-Known Member
Wj
Why would a recording engineer randomly spout B.S. about an album made in the 1983 ? Even if gibbons lied about all of his gear and said he played through a toaster he wasn't the only one who used legend amps he was just the example, the band the outlaws were endorsed by them ,i dont know if you are familure with hughie thomasson but that guy had one of the best and underrated guitar tones, so I'd believe him, as far as "pro players" not using off the shelf gear now I don't see that as really being true especially when you can go buy a signature guitar ,amp, or pedal of any notable player , they all based those things off of something they own or have owned ,im sure that was probably more the case back in the day though because alot of the things we have now are results of the tweaks and modifications , but now you can pretty get any sound you want with an off the shelf piece of gear , it's a great time to be a guitar player the choices are endless to sculpt any tone heard or unheard before .I have read so many different equipment lists from his old recording Engineers about Billy using Gibson vs Fender Guitars & Marshall vs Fender etc,etc,etc, Amps , i don't believe a word of it
I'm not having a go at Billy i think he's THE Best gigging big name Guitar player i've ever seen & i'm old & have seen a lot
I doubt that any Pro level Player uses off the shelf equipment, without mods or tweaks,even i use modded gear & i'm just an old arsed Pub player
old rocker
Well-Known Member
Hi fromans5150, i hope i don't sound like i'm trying to get into argument, i'm way too old for that , to be honest my comments where a bit tongue in cheek & a bit of an attempt at being humorous.
Now, without trying to be humorous , i think Eliminator was the worst example of ZZTop ever recorded,the worst example of Billys recorded sound & full of '80's techno gizmos, like drum machines & bass synths etc, on the flip side it was there most successful album ever with at least 3 of there biggest hits ever, so it shows what my opinion is worth .
I'm not familiar with Outlaw or Hughie Thomasson(was he in that Band?), thanks for the info i'll check him out.
You could well be correct about gear nowadays & signature products etc. i always buy as cheap as i can nowadays, so have no knowledge of new higher priced gear.
My comments about Pros using "custom" or modded products come from years back('63), starting with after i played through an AC30 that was "exactly" the same as mine that was being used by a very famous Guitarist & my AC30 sounded like it was dead in comparison.
No offence meant with any of my comments.
, to be honest my comments where a bit tongue in cheek & a bit of an attempt at being humorous.Now, without trying to be humorous , i think Eliminator was the worst example of ZZTop ever recorded,the worst example of Billys recorded sound & full of '80's techno gizmos, like drum machines & bass synths etc, on the flip side it was there most successful album ever with at least 3 of there biggest hits ever, so it shows what my opinion is worth
.I'm not familiar with Outlaw or Hughie Thomasson(was he in that Band?), thanks for the info i'll check him out.
You could well be correct about gear nowadays & signature products etc. i always buy as cheap as i can nowadays, so have no knowledge of new higher priced gear.
My comments about Pros using "custom" or modded products come from years back('63), starting with after i played through an AC30 that was "exactly" the same as mine that was being used by a very famous Guitarist & my AC30 sounded like it was dead in comparison.
No offence meant with any of my comments.
froman5150
Well-Known Member
It's all good man , open forums are the reason we all gather here to share our experiences and such , it all moves us forward in achieving what were looking for , no offense taken .Hi fromans5150, i hope i don't sound like i'm trying to get into argument, i'm way too old for that
Now, without trying to be humorous , i think Eliminator was the worst example of ZZTop ever recorded,the worst example of Billys recorded sound & full of '80's techno gizmos, like drum machines & bass synths etc, on the flip side it was there most successful album ever with at least 3 of there biggest hits ever, so it shows what my opinion is worth
I'm not familiar with Outlaw or Hughie Thomasson(was he in that Band?), thanks for the info i'll check him out.
You could well be correct about gear nowadays & signature products etc. i always buy as cheap as i can nowadays, so have no knowledge of new higher priced gear.
My comments about Pros using "custom" or modded products come from years back('63), starting with after i played through an AC30 that was "exactly" the same as mine that was being used by a very famous Guitarist & my AC30 sounded like it was dead in comparison.
No offence meant with any of my comments.
OP
"Dream Warriors" by Dokken
From the album, Back for the Attack (1987 Elektra)
Produced by: Neil Kernon
Engineered [Assistant]: Andy Udoff
Recorded at: Rumbo Recorders (Canoga Park, CA)
Available in the JAMMIT “80’s Rock Vol. 2” application
The place: Rumbo Recorders in Canoga Park, CA.
The producer: Neil Kernon, who is most famous for producing Hall and Oats’ big albums.
With Mike Clink wrestling Appetite for Destruction into fruition down the hall, Kernon kept Dokken’s volatile ingredients as separated as the 36 analog tracks that were used to capture “Dream Warriors.” Penned by Lynch and bassist Jeff Pilson, this song is quintessential Dokken but with the romantic-but-still-tough lyrics directed toward a scissor-fingered villain instead of a Sunset Stripper. What better place to wallow in the self-pity of those “lonely nights” and one’s thermal propensity to “feel the fire”
game.
Andy Udoff must have had his hands full. Credited as assistant engineer on two high profile records being recorded simultaneously under the same roof may account for some of the errors in the documentation for this song. Assuming he was responsible for labeling these things (as assistants typically were), the track sheets and the tape boxes were erroneously dated January of ’86 when it should have been for the following year. Apparently sleep deprivation can cause an over-worked engineer to consistently misspell “warriors” as well. It’s not unusual to have discrepancies in documentation with older tapes and in a lot of cases finding the corresponding track sheets can be a victory in itself. So all mislabeling aside, let’s spool-up the 2” machine and hear what went down on Saticoy Street.
Exhuming the Boom
The unprocessed drums sound remarkably good. Not only did Mick Brown deliver a solid performance, but the separation and fidelity far exceeded that of previous Dokken albums. Like many other rock bands back then, Dokken was on the cusp of a technology and sonic growth that saw significant improvement throughout the 80’s. This was most obvious in the drum sounds of the time.
There were kick and snare room samples on the master tape to supplement the live drum performance. At that time, engineers would most likely have printed a pre-trigger by flipping the tape around to play backwards which allowed them to bounce the particular drum track to an available track through a delay unit. When the tape was played forward, that track would be gated and appropriately delayed in time to trigger the sample loaded in an AMS DMX 1580 unit. This would have been a significant step up from having to get that overblown sound entirely from the natural drum kit.
Mr. Scary’s Sweet Revenge
George Lynch’s guitar tracks on “Dream Warriors” were a pleasure to hear in their raw state. His signature chunky eighth note chugs and unconventional chord inversions are the elements responsible for propelling this song into a fist-raising rock anthem. The main rhythm guitars were tracked in stereo from a single performance—either using two separate amps or just different cabinets. The stereo imaging of this pair is superb with nice width in the higher frequencies tapering to the center for the lower midrange. The phase relationship of these waveforms is impeccable and this explains why the guitars sound so full and aggressive in this song. These rhythm tracks are supported with a single mono guitar double. The clean arpeggiated guitars—which are another Lynch trademark—are layered with a thin, metallic-sounding DI acoustic guitar track.
I distinctly remember the “Dream Warriors” music video that showed Lynch’s wrecking ball impersonation as he literally tore through a wall wielding his skeleton guitar—all to the initial bewilderment and eventual delight of an adolescent Patricia Arquette. Defiance by way of a ridiculous guitar solo entrance may come off as comical now, but this solo is no joke. Being able to isolate the actual track dry and audition these nuances in their rawest form was a privilege worthy of more than Arquette’s painted-on admiration. I can almost taste the disdain for Don emanating from those precarious bends and the disorienting mélange of well-articulated notes cascading down like Plinko discs on The Price is Right. Lynch’s tone is bold and never loses focus, plowing indiscriminately through the minor string rattles and pick-noise imperfections that get masked in the final mix. The boost used in the front end of the amp was an original square-buttoned Ibanez TS-808 overdrive pedal aided by the use of a BOSS GE-7 equalizer pedal with an accent on the mids being pushed above the zero point. This solo track is supplemented with a harmony lead that highlights and heightens this original performance. There was additional outro soloing other than what made it to the final mix, but Kernon extracted all the good stuff from this track and flew it into just the right spot to close out the song.
Unsung Hero
Don’s lead vocal was well recorded. Like the drums and guitars, the track was full of presence and tonal character that didn’t make it into the final, sloshy, ’80s-centric mixdown that we’ve all grown accustomed to hearing. While Don may be the front man after which the band is named, Jeff Pilson may be the unsung hero of this song. Jeff sang the guide chorus vocals on a scratch track that was used to build the 18-voice harmony layers constructed later on the tape. These were combined, consolidated to four tracks and were then placed into each chorus of the slave reel. Judging by that and a verse harmony track labeled as “Jeff” on the track sheet, I suspect that he may have sung most of these background vocals. Incidentally, his scratch bass take (that was most likely recorded live when the drums were done) was very well thought out and note-for-note pretty much what ended up on the master bass take.
The Bitter End
While Captain and Tennille may have professed that “Love Will Keep Us Together,” sadly, such was not the case with Dokken. “Dream Warriors” represents a career peak that was really just the beginning of the end for the band. Incarnations with different members and reunion attempts failed to recapture the magic of Dokken in their prime. Is it true that all good things must come to an end? Eventually, the significantly more popular Guns n’ Roses crumbled apart due to similar internal band problems and, as mentioned earlier, the very walls holding up what was once the infamous Rumbo Recorders recording studios are now absorbing endless refrains of “The Chicken Dance” and “Hava Nagila.”
Despite the traditional music industry’s decline and the seemingly irresolvable feuds of so many bands, the recorded music of groups like Dokken will outlive all the egos and attitudes that broke them apart in the first place. Evidence of their significance isn’t just immortalized in the mixes that we’ve come to know, the (nowdigitized) individual tracks of these master tapes tell a backstory of their creation that will outlive the bands themselves, and the fading memories of those who were involved in their creation.
Meet Frank!!!!!
Frank Gryner is a multi-platinum engineer whose credits include bands like A Perfect Circle, Matrix Soundtracks, Rob Zombie, and Tommy Lee. Frank’s technical expertise in audio system design has been applied to location studios for the likes of Filter, Perry Farrell and John Paul Jones.
Additional gear info provided by guitar tech and leading Lynchistorian Gerry Ganaden
@chilipeppermaniac
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OP
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
What am I missing? Robert