guess you can .....................

[Inspector #20]

i was in a cover band in houston in 2016 and the other guitar player used a mustang. sometimes it was too bright and hurt my ears. we tried to get him to use one of his tube amps but he wouldnt do it.
i have gigged a few times with nothing but a helix into foh. the helix is great and i really like it but it was strange not having an amp behind me. it would have taken several gigs for me to get used to it.
i guess im too old school, because i prefer to have a real amp and i prefer to not only hear the music, but to feel it as well.

Dude!!!! Tell you something about playing live in a loud band that is kinda wild...and it's sonic beaming.

I've been standing right next to my Origin and 2x12 - with MV on 8 and gas pedal floored - and could barely hear my amp, but friends in the back said it was loud and clear.

It's like the sound just goes right past you!!!!

 

[smitty_p]

I spent some time playing on a worship team and in that setting, they were hypersensitive to everything...controlling actually, and the mix was so controlled that you could hear everything, but they provided you with list of equipment that was accepted and you could not go off the list.

The only delay they approved was the TC Flashback and only the sound person could adjust it. Amps were in a room under the stage and they were locked up. You could not access them. It was all controlled at the board.

Only Fender guitars were allowed.

I’ve heard of that type of thing before. Personally, I’ve never encountered that. I’ve played guitar in worship teams for 20 years (as well as playing out in other types of bands) and have never had anyone try to control the guitars I use, the effects I use, or the amp I use. I own all my own gear and control all the settings. (Getting a suggestion from an experienced sound tech doesn’t qualify as the same type of control you’ve described, in my mind.)

So, whereas I have certainly heard of the type of scenarios you describe, I wouldn’t say it is typical. It really comes down to local leadership.

 

[smitty_p]

I mean, seriously, do you know how loud you would have to set a delay to be heard above a live band in a crowded club???

I comes down to what you’re doing.

Too much delay won’t necessarily be heard as delay. If the settings are too extreme and you have the mix of the delay set too high and the delay feedback set too high the effect will be that the delay tails sound like they are rolling back on themselves. Played in isolation, it can lend a large, reverberant character to what you’re playing. In the mix, you won’t really hear the delay as it’s own thing. The sound will just be indistinct and muddled. If delay is used subtly, you will probably not have an issue.

Some songs really need a delay, such as many U2 songs. For example, “Where the Streets Have No Name” uses a precise dual delay of a dotted eighth plus a sixteenth, at 125 bpm. It’s also played very clean on a Strat. The mix level is not too extreme and the delay feedback is set to only one or two repeats. So, in a scenario like that, delay becomes more critical. Of course, hardly anyone in an audience is going to overtly comment on delay! I’m not concerned about that. But it is part of what captures what is going on and contributes to the character of that song. Most times, I’m less concerned about that sort of stuff. But, for some tunes, I pay more attention to capturing these details.

 

[Inspector #20]

I comes down to what you’re doing.

Too much delay won’t necessarily be heard as delay. If the settings are too extreme and you have the mix of the delay set too high and the delay feedback set too high the effect will be that the delay tails sound like they are rolling back on themselves. Played in isolation, it can lend a large, reverberant character to what you’re playing. In the mix, you won’t really hear the delay as it’s own thing. The sound will just be indistinct and muddled. If delay is used subtly, you will probably not have an issue.

Some songs really need a delay, such as many U2 songs. For example, “Where the Streets Have No Name” uses a precise dual delay of a dotted eighth plus a sixteenth, at 125 bpm. It’s also played very clean on a Strat. The mix level is not too extreme and the delay feedback is set to only one or two repeats. So, in a scenario like that, delay becomes more critical. Of course, hardly anyone in an audience is going to overtly comment on delay! I’m not concerned about that. But it is part of what captures what is going on and contributes to the character of that song. Most times, I’m less concerned about that sort of stuff. But, for some tunes, I pay more attention to capturing these details.

Good observations. In the Hotel California solo, the delay can be heard pretty clearly, but everything else is pulled back, so it kinda jumps out at you, so to speak.

 

[Inspector #20]

So, whereas I have certainly heard of the type of scenarios you describe, I wouldn’t say it is typical. It really comes down to local leadership.

Agreed...

Being an Indigo, I'm naturally resistant to that level of control. I turned down a lead guitar spot with a top country artist (Warner Brothers) in 2007 because the contract specified "will agree to play only Fender guitars and Amps, to be photographed with only Fender guitars and Amps, pursuant to endorsement contracts."

Actually, in my area, the worship teams are widely known for their absolute control over the equipment and instruments. One huge church in Fontana (where we once attended) required only Fender guitars and no red guitars of any kind where permitted.

The Amps were Bad Cats under the stage with isolation cabinets and only the worship leader could access the Amps and alter the settings. There was a written sign-in log that had to be signed whenever the room was accessed.

Before you could join the worship team, you had to go to an internal "school" where you were taught how to stand, how to play, how to dress and how to sound. It was here that you were given instruction on what FX were allowed and I still have the email with all the details, even though I declined the paid position.

Everything is pretty much centered around sounding like Chris Tomlin's Band, who was a frequent visitor at the church. There is a tremendous effort placed on sounding like the record, which isn't a bad thing I suppose, that level of structure is just not for me I have learned.

In March of 2011, I was hired by a church in Visalia to bring a more 'edgy' tone to their music program and perform some of the more 'contemporary' songs that the 'traditionalists' were not comfortable playing.

It wasn't as controlling in terms of equipment, but they were very, very controlling in terms of tone. For example, Fireflight's song 'Unbreakable' has quite a bit of gain, and they would pull the gain way back until the song wasn't really recognizeable.

I stayed on staff (payroll) there for about 6 months, but I really wanted to get back into the clubs where I felt the greatest sense of freedom.

I started playing out every chance that I could get, in just about every band I could find. In November 2011, I moved to SoCal and was immediately hired as an $800/week bassist in a blues band and that paid the bills for a couple of years. My second paid job down here was in an Eagle's Tribute and I loved that job.

But, my tone and playing style has to be constantly restrained in other genres and I can do it, but it feels unnatural.

This song is kinda how I see myself tonally...

 

[Inspector #20]

I comes down to what you are doing...

True!!!!
For me, the #1 thing has to be to earn a living.

In a recording studio, there is a lot of producer/engineer control over the sound of a given project, but to me, it's a reasonable level to assure a quality product.

Most of what I do is covered by non disclosure agreements and to be honest, a lot of projects that I am involved in - and paid good money to work on - I wouldn't want to share with anyone because it is just not me.

I'm a paid musical actor and I can assume just about any role that you require.

I've played on jazz projects, country projects, Latin music projects, commercials, advertisements, and just about anything you can name.

I sometimes hear some of my guitar work being played on the radio and it's still a very cool experience, even if it's not music that I would listen to of my own volition.

 

[Inspector #20]

@smitty_p - I should add that some of these worship team players are really precise and sound great.

However, I have been performing when the sheet music blew off the stand and the guitarist stopped until he could retrieve the page.

I never use a music stand. It's all in my head...but I've also been fronting bands for a living since I was 15...

 

[SIx String Chef]

Didnt this hack named Dime use SS from time to time. ? I seen Pantera live and they kicked ass no matter what damn amp Dime used.View attachment 72155

I think that, following Mr. Goo's assertion above, in the end the critical element that will define how great or not an amp (tube or SS) ends up sounding, is THE GUITARIST. I can betcha good money that if you put me through a Dumble, a Trainwreck, or any other bespoke / artisanally crafted tube amp I'll end up sounding just as ty as I do on a smokey amp with the battery about to die... And of course, the inverse would apply to any guitarist worth their salt.

 

[SIx String Chef]

What I like about my current contract job with Outfall is that I have total control over my sound, my FX and there are zero restrictions on me whatsoever.

We have a Caswell #39 Modded JCM800 2204 on premises, but I prefer the Steinberg Amp Rack VST Simulator for recording.

View attachment 72232

I tend to stay really conservative. I use the Origin 50H and a custom 2x12 cabinet along with my modest pedalboard. I never change any levels except volume. It works on every song. If I need a clean tone, I just kick off the TS-9. I can add delay and reverb with a pedal if needed.

View attachment 72231

Yes, there are more glamorous rigs, but this is my only source of income and it's been super dependable.

Can't say enough good about it...

As I like to say: If it works, it works...

 

[Inspector #20]

As I like to say: If it works, it works...