Gibson Pickup Noise Anomalies:

I am going to say this about the covered/uncoverd argument-------- I have uncovered Gibson Zebras. (SG)--- and an uncovered DEAN Zebra Pup (Epiphone Spirit)---and the Spirit is dead quiet----- the SG -- not even close. its AS LOUD as my P90 SG jr.
The quietest pickups I have are uncovered, the Duncan Distortions in my Jackson Soloist, & they are really hot pickups. The guitar is shielded with paint from the factory but the coils are fully exposed on the bridge pickup & about 1/2 exposed on the neck. Go figure. Cheers
 
The quietest pickups I have are uncovered, the Duncan Distortions in my Jackson Soloist, & they are really hot pickups. The guitar is shielded with paint from the factory but the coils are fully exposed on the bridge pickup & about 1/2 exposed on the neck. Go figure. Cheers

All the Jacko's seem really quiet....
 
All the Jacko's seem really quiet....
All wiring is done with shielded leads & anywhere the center conductor exits the braided shield, like to connect to pots, switch or jack, the exposed center conductor is kept as short as possible, less than a centimeter sortta thing. Really quite impressive for an Indonesian guitar. Cheers
 
All wiring is done with shielded leads & anywhere the center conductor exits the braided shield, like to connect to pots, switch or jack, the exposed center conductor is kept as short as possible, less than a centimeter sortta thing. Really quite impressive for an Indonesian guitar. Cheers

Jackson's have great shielding....it's a shame to have these problems with a Gibson....
 
Looking at the video, first impression is an earthing issue or static? Then I tried it out with my SG faded and my little 10 watt Yamaha with 5 amp sims, at full gain and full volume:

Fender Twin - quiet.
VOX AC30 - quiet.
Marshall Plexi - quite quiet.
Marshall JCM800 - noisy.
Mesa Boogie Rectifier - damn noisy; feeding back, so you have to turn the volume right down when not playing the guitar; actually, I couldn't even put the gain/volume more than 50%.

I was on the 490R.

&, yes, same as you, if you touch the pickups then the noise grows.

I'm not sure it's a problem though, it's just a function of Gibson pickups (relatively high output) with gain laden amps. I don't play with that much gain, so I don't notice it often - performing live or in a recording studio I see folks turn the volume down or put the amp on standby when they are not playing. I suppose this is the reason that so many pickups are wax potted - to reduce coil movement, noise, microphonic feedback, etc; but, that clearly doesn't solve the problem completely.

I hadn't noticed the issue before because I don't play as loudly as you with as much gain. So, for me it's not an issue, but I understand it's real.

For you, Robert, the solution is to find pickups that are designed differently so they are not noisy when played at volume with high gain (I don't think it's a wiring issue or faulty pickups). &, that's exactly what you have down! It's all good. :D
 
Ok,

Many of you will recall the constant buzzing I encountered in my 2016 Gibson SG that got worse if you touched the pickups. This noise anomaly remained through 3 sets of Gibson pickups - two pairs of 490R/490T and a set of brand new Gibson '57 Classics. No matter what I changed, amplifiers, locations, power supplies or cables, the noise persisted. So, I removed the Gibson PCB and replaced it with the Tone Man Vintage Wire harness and again tried all 3 sets of Gibson pickups. The noise issue was unchanged.

So, I threw in a set of GFS Classic II PAF Clones (7.93k bridge and 7.8k neck) and the noise disappeared completely. How can three sets of Gibson pickups in a row be bad that were all wound on different dates???

Ok...

I just bought a 2016 Gibson Les Paul 50's Tribute...and it displays the exact same noise anomalies that I fought for 8 months in my 2016 Gibson SG - a noise anomaly that I could not get rid of until I got rid of the Gibson pickups.

Here is a comparison video I just made. This is not my imagination, neither is it an OCD over-exaggeration of normal floor noise. If you are working in a recording environment, or playing live at elevated volume levels, this is a killer:


Ok, fellows, so how then is it possible to get two "bad" Gibson guitars in a row and (4) different sets of Gibson pickups that react exactly the same, even through different amplifiers, different locations and different cables???

Interesting!!!!!

I tried this on three of my guitars. I used my 2007 Les Paul Custom, which has covered 498T/490R pickups. I used my 2014 SG, which has covered 57 Classics. And, I used my Jackson, which has uncovered Seymour Duncan JB/Jazz pickups.

When I went to touch the pickups with my thumb and finger as you did in the video, not a single one of the above pickups demonstrated increased noise, as your video depicts. I tried it both while touching the strings with my other hand, and without touching any other metal part.

This, of course is not a solution, but it does provide an additional data set.
 
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What amp did you use Smitty????

I find the Panama and OWEGITONE 5 watt tube amps do not make much noise at all ---not annoying levels---
the Marshalls--- both--- solid state---give the most hum

and the Hartke bass amp produces almost no hum with the same guitars used (SG and SGJ--open humbuckers and P90)

My covered humbucker beasties are all very quiet......the PEavey Super Ferrites are noisey as SHITE with the Marshalls but clean a low hum on the Tube amps .......
 
What amp did you use Smitty????

I used my processor and headphones. But, that doesn't really matter. If the pickups are the culprit, the noise will still come through. For instance, I'll get the 60 cycle hum from my Strat if I'm using a single pickup just as much as if I used a real amp.

I was also using a very high-gain patch I made. I call it, "Power Metal." But, the patch is based on '80s era Marshalls.

Besides, Robert is having this issue regardless of the amp he's using.
 
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I tried this on three of my guitars. I used my 2007 Les Paul Custom, which has covered 498T/490R pickups. I used my 2014 SG, which has covered 57 Classics. And, I used my Jackson, which has uncovered Seymour Duncan JB/Jazz pickups.

When I went to touch the pickups with my thumb and finger as you did in the video, not a single one of the above pickups demonstrated increased noise, as your video depicts. I tried it both while touching the strings with my other hand, and without touching any other metal part.

This, of course is not a solution, but it does provide an additional data set.

Thanks, Smitty....that mimics my testing here with different guitars.

It's definitely related to the bridge pickup in this Gold Top.

Its not related to impedance or output. I experienced the same noise anomaly with several sets of Gibson 490's in my 2016 Gibson SG, and those are in the 7-8k range.

My daughter's new H-S-S Stratocaster is not affected. Neither are any of my student's guitars, despite some having higher output, uncovered pickups.

If you watch the video again, I am playing at very low volume. If I crank the volume, the bridge pickup goes into a howling feedback that cannot be controlled.

If you go back a few months and read my 6/4/2004 emails to Gibson's Nicholas Chemsak, regarding the problems with my then brand new 2003 Gibson SG, it is the exact same issue almost verbatim.

Chemsak's reply suggested buying a more expensive SG variant. But Chemsak did acknowledge a lot of noise complaints relating to pickups.

About a week into ownership, I returned the Gibson SG and bought two brand new Hamer Standards, for recording and live use respectively, from Guitar Sinner in Fresno - both were perfectly setup and sonically quiet off the rack. I played these awkward, yet quiet guitars for 2 years...until a colleague introduced me to Schecter. We paid a visit to their SoCal facility and I walked out with a brand new C1 Hellraiser - my main guitar from 2005 until September 2016 - when I bought my 2016 Gibson SG.

I still have the Hellraiser, which I still use for general recording work. It is especially good for volume swells, due to the placement of the volume knob, but I do feel like the EMG'S lack the character of a conventional pickup, and I much prefer the tone and feel of a 24-3/4" scale neck.

Getting back to the noise issues depicted in the video...I have been able to duplicate it at Guitar Sinner, with off the rack Gibson's....not all of them, but on several of them... with both covered and uncovered Gibson pickups.

After evaluation, I don't think the PCB is an issue - I actually think it's a good idea. I recently played one of the Gibson Historical Reissues, with all the vintage wiring, and played a 2017 Gibson Les Paul Tribute with PCB and the tonal spectrum was, to my ear, identical.

Secondly, I tried 3 sets of Gibson pickups (490R/490T x 2 & 57 Classics) that still exhibited this noise after the PCB was replaced with the Tone Man Vintage Harness - and finally stopped completely when the GFS Classic II's were installed.

So, step one will be having the guitar checked out by Gibson warranty - 60 miles away - and see what their official word is.

Depending on what they say/do, I have the option to just sell it outright or return it.
 
Let me just throw in a thought about covers. True, many non-covered pickups do not exhibit the noise Robert has recorded. However, we cannot conclude from that observation that covers make no difference. Unless I've missed a post stating otherwise, I haven't seen anyone post that their covered pickups DO exhibit this noise anomaly. All I've seen is that some (including me) have stated that their UNcovered pickups do NOT have this noise issue.

It's entirely possible that if I removed the covers from my 498T, 490R, and 57 Classics that I'd get the same, or similar, issues as Robert is experiencing. (No, Robert. I love ya, man, but I am not going to remove the covers from my pickups just to find out!)

Robert, have you considered just buying covers and putting them on the pickups? It's the easiest possible fix. Just a drop of solder on each side of the cover is all that's necessary to secure it to the pickup base plate.

I realize you're going to have a tech look at it, but it's just a thought.
 
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Let me just throw in a thought about covers. True, many non-covered pickups do not exhibit the noise Robert has recorded. However, we cannot conclude from that observation that covers make no difference. Unless I've missed a post stating otherwise, I haven't seen anyone post that their covered pickups DO exhibit this noise anomaly. All I've seen is that some (including me) have stated that their UNcovered pickups do NOT have this noise issue.

It's entirely possible that if I removed the covers from my 498T, 490R, and 57 Classics that I'd get the same, or similar, issues as Robert is experiencing. (No, Robert. I love ya, man, but I am not going to remove the covers from my pickups just to find out!)

Robert, have you considered just buying covers and putting them on the pickups? It's the easiest possible fix. Just a drop of solder on each side of the cover is all that's necessary to secure it to the pickup base plate.

I realize you're going to have a tech look at it, but it's just a thought.

Hey, Smitty....

I thought about precisely what you are saying....but, my brand new Gibson 57 Classics, and the 2017 490R/490T's (11/09/16 wind dates) were covered and exhibited the exact same noise characteristics, which disappeared when the GFS PAF clones were installed.

I worked at the studio a couple of hours this morning. I took the Gold Top and had a colleague listen to it. He immediately said, "Oh, wow, you got a broken ground lead on the bridge pickup. see it all the time on Gibsons..."

Maybe from shipment????
 
Hey, Smitty....

I thought about precisely what you are saying....but, my brand new Gibson 57 Classics, and the 2017 490R/490T's (11/09/16 wind dates) were covered and exhibited the exact same noise characteristics,

Well...so much for that theory! Interesting information. Thanks, Robert.

I worked at the studio a couple of hours this morning. I took the Gold Top and had a colleague listen to it. He immediately said, "Oh, wow, you got a broken ground lead on the bridge pickup. see it all the time on Gibsons..."

Maybe from shipment????

From shipment? Not likely.

If it's any consolation, in looking up info on your pickups, the opinions on Gibson pickups are all over the map (though not necessarily due to noise issues).

Though they have accomplished some innovations in regards to pickups, the third-party sources, such as Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio seem to generally have more positive opinions. Of course, some of this could be the due to the fact that Gibson-bashing is always a popular spectator sport. But, even the early PAFs were inconsistent.

Generally, I'm satisfied with the 57 Classics in my SG and the 489T/490R pickups in my LPC. But, I'll probably use Seymour Duncans in my Studio project. I trust a pickup company to make good pickups more than I trust a guitar company to make good pickups. That sounds weird, but I don't really see Gibson as pickup experts. I see them as guitar builders.

Even so, this gold-top of yours is a brand new guitar. You have the leverage to push back a little. Don't read the riot act to the Gibson guy you've been dealing with. He's trying to help. But, I'll tell you. Even from the stand point of a gigger, not a studio guy, I'd not use a guitar that started to buzz and hum just because I moved my hand close to the p'ups. If I really liked the guitar, I'd swap pickups. But, admittedly, that's a little silly for a guitar that retails for a few thousand dollars.
 
I have 3 guitars with uncoverd pups........
Epi SPirit with DEAN USA zebra.....no hum....no funky fingering noise
Gibson 57 Classic and classic plus Zebras......noise and hum like Roberts....perhaps not AS bad ,..but noisy
4.00 Ebay humbucker bridge position of my Explorer .......no noise --- no issues in any situation......works great....

ALl using the Marshall same high gain settings....
 
Well...so much for that theory! Interesting information. Thanks, Robert.



From shipment? Not likely.

If it's any consolation, in looking up info on your pickups, the opinions on Gibson pickups are all over the map (though not necessarily due to noise issues).

Though they have accomplished some innovations in regards to pickups, the third-party sources, such as Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio seem to generally have more positive opinions. Of course, some of this could be the due to the fact that Gibson-bashing is always a popular spectator sport. But, even the early PAFs were inconsistent.

Generally, I'm satisfied with the 57 Classics in my SG and the 489T/490R pickups in my LPC. But, I'll probably use Seymour Duncans in my Studio project. I trust a pickup company to make good pickups more than I trust a guitar company to make good pickups. That sounds weird, but I don't really see Gibson as pickup experts. I see them as guitar builders.

Even so, this gold-top of yours is a brand new guitar. You have the leverage to push back a little. Don't read the riot act to the Gibson guy you've been dealing with. He's trying to help. But, I'll tell you. Even from the stand point of a gigger, not a studio guy, I'd not use a guitar that started to buzz and hum just because I moved my hand close to the p'ups. If I really liked the guitar, I'd swap pickups. But, admittedly, that's a little silly for a guitar that retails for a few thousand dollars.

Good advice, Man....

Nah, I'm super cool with this deal...I'm not upset.... :-)
 
My rudimentary guitar skills dont require such scrutiny hahahahaha. Id set it to my liking and well i could get some good Neil Young out of it. :)
 
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