eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
sounds good but just dont call me Betty
Call Me Crazy: Cheap Winder Build
- Thread starter Cadorman
- Start date
OP
Cadorman
Ambassador of the Catocaster
OP
Cadorman
Ambassador of the Catocaster
Thanks Mitch. I'm sure I am biased, but I think all the pickups I have wound so far sound better than the Gibson 61s, 57/57+ and BB2/3 combos that I have replaced. I also like my milder versions better than the Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers and this new set in the SG is definitely more interesting sounding than the SD Whole Lotta Humbuckers I had in there. I have a few more things I want to try, but I will most likely start selling these. I'm making a lot of notes right now and constructing a spreadsheet so I can nail down duplicates.Sounds great brother.
You may have a new calling
:dood:
I have a hot rod set I want to put in my SG JB and Jazz from Seymour Duncan, and I plan on putting the Gibson pickups in my Epi LP.
OP
Cadorman
Ambassador of the Catocaster
Possibly. You either have to increase the magnet strength, increase the number of winds on the coils or both. Put up a picture of it so I can get an idea of what we are looking at.
They are in the guitar, but I can get replacements easily.
Here you can see how they use screw-type pole pieces...
These are made by Artec and they are readily available. They are around 5.5k in stock form...
I thought of adding some Neodymium strip magnets along the sides of the screw poles, but wasn't sure it would work properly.
OP
Cadorman
Ambassador of the Catocaster
So, is that 2 coils stacked up? I assume opposite wind direction to cancel hum. Do they use 2 little strip magnets between the two coils, or is that a magnet on the bottom with holes drilled in it with a similar one in between the coils? If you pull the plastic cover off of one you should be able to tell if there is room to add wire to the coil. The bobbins can be filled right to the top. As long as you can get them back inside the covers all is good. If those are drilled magnets there isn't much I can do there. If there is room adding wire shouldn't be too hard. 5.5k is extremely low windings by any standard.
I think I'm gonna order a couple more because I don't want to down the guitar to pull these out...
What i like about the screw-stylebpole pieces is you can get them up against the strings without the magnetic pull you get from the magnetic pole pieces.
OP
Cadorman
Ambassador of the Catocaster
So I did a gauss test on the Jackson. Mine versus stock.
Bridge: mine=50.9 gauss. Stock=50.8 gauss.
Neck: mine=41.7 gauss. Stock=49.3 gauss.
The stock pickups have ceramic magnets. I used an alnico8 in the bridge and alnico5 in the neck. I got 10.3k ohms on the bridge with 42 awg wire versus the stock pickup with 15.9k ohms of 44 awg wire. This ends up being around 13500 winds on both pickups. Winds matter. Resistance doesn't. Resistance just gives you a way to compare how long the wire is if you know the diameter. As wire diameter goes down resistance goes up. Another thing to note is that the more air gap in the coil the more open it will sound. Therefore 42 awg coils will naturally sound more open than 43 or 44 awg wound coils as the larger diameter automatically creates more space between the wires in the coil. Another item of note is how tightly a coil is wound. I've read a lot of guys talking about stretching coil wire for a different sound. I call bull
e. Even 42 awg is smaller than the diameter of a human hair. It DOESN'T stretch, it breaks. Really damn easily. Coils are either wound sloppy unusably loose, or correctly and the are not really tight, but have absolutely no slop in them. I'm on my 3rd beer. Sorry about the rambling.
Bridge: mine=50.9 gauss. Stock=50.8 gauss.
Neck: mine=41.7 gauss. Stock=49.3 gauss.
The stock pickups have ceramic magnets. I used an alnico8 in the bridge and alnico5 in the neck. I got 10.3k ohms on the bridge with 42 awg wire versus the stock pickup with 15.9k ohms of 44 awg wire. This ends up being around 13500 winds on both pickups. Winds matter. Resistance doesn't. Resistance just gives you a way to compare how long the wire is if you know the diameter. As wire diameter goes down resistance goes up. Another thing to note is that the more air gap in the coil the more open it will sound. Therefore 42 awg coils will naturally sound more open than 43 or 44 awg wound coils as the larger diameter automatically creates more space between the wires in the coil. Another item of note is how tightly a coil is wound. I've read a lot of guys talking about stretching coil wire for a different sound. I call bull
e. Even 42 awg is smaller than the diameter of a human hair. It DOESN'T stretch, it breaks. Really damn easily. Coils are either wound sloppy unusably loose, or correctly and the are not really tight, but have absolutely no slop in them. I'm on my 3rd beer. Sorry about the rambling.
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I've not ever wound a pickup, but have picked up a bit of knowledge through speaking with winders/having pickups wound over the years & you're right on the money regarding the more air gap or space between winding in a coil, the more open it will sound. This is why a well done scatter wound pickup exhibits better clarity with clearer high end/harmonic content & are generally thought to be more dynamic than uniformly wound pickups.So I did a gauss test on the Jackson. Mine versus stock.
Bridge: mine=50.9 gauss. Stock=50.8 gauss.
Neck: mine=41.7 gauss. Stock=49.3 gauss.
The stock pickups have ceramic magnets. I used an alnico8 in the bridge and alnico5 in the neck. I got 10.3k ohms on the bridge with 42 awg wire versus the stock pickup with 15.9k ohms of 44 awg wire. This ends up being around 13500 winds on both pickups. Winds matter. Resistance doesn't. Resistance just gives you a way to compare how long the wire is if you know the diameter. As wire diameter goes down resistance goes up. Another thing to note is that the more air gap in the coil the more open it will sound. Therefore 42 awg coils will naturally sound more open than 43 or 44 awg wound coils as the larger diameter automatically creates more space between the wires in the coil. Another item of note is how tightly a coil is wound. I've read a lot of guys talking about stretching coil wire for a different sound. I call bull
More air space between the winds means lower capacitance, which moves the resonant peak upward.
I have been told though that scatter winding to consistently produce whatever certain characteristics one may be after is akin to a black art, & only "maybe" achievable after a great deal of practice. Cheers
OP
Cadorman
Ambassador of the Catocaster
Ivan, I bet the big guys like Seymour Duncan etal, are using the CNC programmable winders to duplicate any desired winding pattern they want.
The only trade off I see with a scatter wound bobbin is it limits how much wire you can get on it. This isn't a problem for a 7-8.5k ohm reading humbucker bobbin, but if you want to get much above 9k you need to lay it down pretty consistently.
My problem is I like them all. For bridge pickups I currently have an 8.65k A2 in my blueberry burst, 9.9k A8 in the V, 9.0k A2 in the SG, 9.15k A2 in the Signature T and 10.32k A8 in my Jackson. They all sound great, but different. I really don't have a favorite.
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
that sounds awesome ... your winding ...is PICKING UP
OP
Cadorman
Ambassador of the Catocaster
I currently have my pickups in 7 of my 8 guitars. The SD Antiquities are staying in the honey burst LP Classic. I have to start making a couple of sets for when the new SG and Les Paul arrive. Since I have yanked out a set of 57 Classic/Classic +, 61 Burstbucker's, Burstbucker 2 & 3, and a couple sets of Seth Lovers I am reasonably sure I can improve on the Burstbucker Pro's.that sounds awesome ... your winding ...is PICKING UP