Bye, Bye Gibson.

gball said:
Wow Robert, that's tough. My wife and I came very close to losing our home during the crash, and frankly it's a miracle we managed to hold onto it. We ultimately did end up selling the house but I feel your pain on some level - we were at the point that I was modifying my route to work to use less gas because I couldn't afford more than one tank every two weeks.
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I feel you...we tried everything to keep it. It was really humbling to find yourself losing the house, being served with divorce papers and living on a friend's sofa at 46.

It was my first purchase, so I didn't know that a '2-1 Buydown' was a bad thing. I walked into the deal not knowing anything...but I went through it alone. I feel worse for the families with children that lost everything.
 
smitty_p said:
I wasn't referring to anyone on the forum. I was making more of a general reference. However, I did not make that distinction clear. So, my bad for the confusion.
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No worries. I didn't take it that way. I just felt I should clarify my position. I hope Gibson makes it through this period and comes out the other side wiser and stronger than ever.
 
Sp8ctre said:
I also feel your pain Robert. I moved out here to California in 2006 and paid $500K for a brand new build. By 2010 it was worth about $195K. I also lost that house and about
$200K of equity I had in it. The good news for me was that in California at the time you were completely forgiven of the remaining loan balance after the foreclosure.

I had to rent for a few years and build back up from my losses, but I was finally able to buy another house at less than half what it cost new. It would have been better
if the bank had come in and lowered the value of the houses, but all the government did was pay off the banks and no one I know was helped in any way to refi after the crash...

...and as for Gibson, I have also bought some seriously sub standard guitars from them in the last 3 years. I mean the quality control was just terrible. And what do I see now?
Increased prices on every line and still sub standard product. The cleanest most well finished guitar I have bought in the last year is a Squier VM Stratocaster for all of $300.
A proper set of electronics brought the cost to $600, but it is a flawless build otherwise...
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Wow, Man. I am humbled...we can all sympathize with that notice being taped to the door...

Its good to know you guys pulled through. I have immense respect for you guys.

I may be an opinionated dickhead, but my heart literally breaks when I hear about people in distress, especially when their home is at risk.

I remember my little boy crying and hugging the door of his room when we had to leave.

My heat broke. I cried too...
 
Session 5 said:
Wow! Robert I Feel for you and others this has happened to. At the time this would be devastating to you and your family, very sorry to hear about this. I hope you and your family are getting along better now these days. I could not imagine the loss of losing my home, But from knowing you here on the forum, I know you are the type of guy who would not look back and press on. Keep making those fat neck guitars!:guitarking:
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Thanks, Bro...like I said, my wife left me and I went through the foreclosure and loss alone, so my little boy had a solid place to stay and that made it easier.

Fast forward 7 years. I got myself out of debt without filing bankruptcy, met an incredible woman (now my wife)and we have a beautiful home.

True story...

When I met her in 2014, I told her one night: "I like you. But I have nothing. I've lost it all. I'm living with friends. I have nothing to offer you and, quite frankly, you deserve better than a second-hand fellow..."

She replied, "you're perfect for me. All I want is an honest man..."
 
Robert Herndon said:
Thanks, Bro...like I said, my wife left me and I went through the foreclosure and loss alone, so my little boy had a solid place to stay and that made it easier.

Fast forward 7 years. I got myself out of debt without filing bankruptcy, met an incredible woman (now my wife)and we have a beautiful home.

True story...

When I met her in 2014, I told her one night: "I like you. But I have nothing. I've lost it all. I'm living with friends. I have nothing to offer you and, quite frankly, you deserve better than a second-hand fellow..."

She replied, "you're perfect for me. All I want is an honest man..."
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Wow, that's a keeper wife! Also once divorced but my now second wife calls the Ex the "practice" wife :LOL:
 
Robert Herndon said:
Thanks, Bro...like I said, my wife left me and I went through the foreclosure and loss alone, so my little boy had a solid place to stay and that made it easier.

Fast forward 7 years. I got myself out of debt without filing bankruptcy, met an incredible woman (now my wife)and we have a beautiful home.

True story...

When I met her in 2014, I told her one night: "I like you. But I have nothing. I've lost it all. I'm living with friends. I have nothing to offer you and, quite frankly, you deserve better than a second-hand fellow..."

She replied, "you're perfect for me. All I want is an honest man..."
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That's tough! My kids were both grown and gone and my wife stuck it out with me as it was not really through any fault of our own...just bad timing.

We celebrated 36 years this month!
 
Session 5 said:
I personally think Gibson is losing ground in the market. I have read about problems they have been having over the last couple of years. You don't need to spend $2,000 to $3,000 dollars for a very good guitar. Gibson and Fender have been riding the wave for many years on their names. But now the time has come some guitarists out there are realizing there is stiff competition now in the market. You can buy a very good guitar today for $1,000 . As far as I'm concerned Gibson has become greedy over the years, but now the market is changing quickly, most consumers now wont pay the prices they are asking. A few weeks ago I purchased a Godin Core P90 CT. This guitar had a selling price $895.00 this axe is very well made. I'm kinda stuck on Godin guitars. I live in a city that has a large guitar shop, that I frequent there often, I have sat down and played Gibson, Fender, Gretsch , Jackson and many others. There is a chap who gave a review on the Core with the P90s. You can go read it yourself in Sweetwater. He has played guitars for 30 years . He says this guitar exceeds that of a comparably priced Gibson and equals that of a PRS S2 series. There are many rave reviews on Godin guitars all you have to do is use the internet to find them or read reviews in the guitar magazines. I'm not saying these things to be boastful , just saying you can buy a high Quality guitar that is equal to or better than Gibson or Fender for much less money. I believe over the years people have been bombarded with Gibson and Fender, there are some out there that if you don't own a Gibson or Fender you don't have a good guitar. I Own a Godin Progression Strat that I purchased for $1,000 last November, I will put that up against an $2,000American made Strat any day of the week . I believe Gibson at some point will go offshore, because they want to make huge profits like they have over the years. They cant make the huge profits now they once made, times are changing and now with making some below standard guitars they are struggling. Time will tell.
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+1 on the Godin guitars like you said. For the price of $1,000 for your Progression Strat brand new is a pretty decent & affordable especially with the features it has like that switch that makes your pick ups go from passive to active. I paid just over $1,000 back in 2005 for my 1998 Fender American Std. Strat w/ a Fender hard-shell case...not a bad deal back then but a bit pricey for a used guitar. I really love the guitar since I had it quite a while now but when I tried a Godin guitar one time in the pawn shop it had about almost the same feel & quality like my Fender...I was very impressed. It goes to show you that you don't need to shell out big bucks for a quality guitar. Gibson in my opinion is probably the most expensive of them all and their quality control is all over the place. It's either a hit or miss with them guitars.


;>)/
 
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smitty_p said:
Stepping back and taking a breath, I think we can all put aside any immediate expectations that Gibson is going away. The lawyers on the forum can offer more professional insight, but bankruptcy does not necessarily mean a business goes out of existence. Often, the company will file for Chapter 11 protections. During this time, the company continues operations and sets about restructuring to satisfy debt and get itself back on its feet. This process has some degree of court oversight.

However, a real concern is if the main business is sound. According to a senior credit officer from Moody's Investor's Service quoted in this Nashville Post article, the core business at Gibson is stable and sustainable.

https://www.nashvillepost.com/busin...e/20992105/gibson-running-out-of-time-rapidly

Gibson lovers don't need to start mourning, yet. And Gibson haters shouldn't start celebrating, yet.
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For me it's not the end of the world whatever happens to Gibson. There are so many choices today with other guitar companies that offer better quality. If Gibson goes tits up I wouldn't lose any sleep. I have other things to worry about that are more important than to worry about something I personally have no control over. Let the chips lie where they may fall Witty Smitty.:wink:


;>)/
 
BlackSG91 said:
For me it's not the end of the world whatever happens to Gibson. There are so many choices today with other guitar companies that offer better quality. If Gibson goes tits up I wouldn't lose any sleep. I have other things to worry about that are more important than to worry about something I personally have no control over. Let the chips lie where they may fall Witty Smitty.:wink:


;>)/
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Did you tell them they are the Lord's chip's????
 
gball said:
100% is standard retail markup for virtually all consumer goods.
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It most certainly is not.

I have owned and managed business that do wholesale and retail trade and am currently employed in 2 fields doing so--- I WISH I GOT 100% mark up on my orders....I am LUCKY to get 40% ---average is 30% and many "dogfight bid wars" end up in the 20% range

One of the 2 businesses compete against China and Mexico on a daily bassis ---we recently lost a Large Retail Box Office Supply store account-----because they could MAKE MORE PROFIT--- not get it faster- or better--- but make more PROFIT buying from CHina.
they where marking our product up 3.6 times the purchase cost--- and that wasnt enough "mark up/profit" for them

I personally lost a 10,000 pc order to a competitor this week --- who claims "USA OWNED AND OPERATED" but their production facility is JUST across the border in Mexico------their bid was 1/3 ours for the "identical" product.....not USA made--- but they bid and won --- and the client who ASKED for USA made .....didnt seem to care at those cost savings.
 
eSGEe said:
It most certainly is not.

I have owned and managed business that do wholesale and retail trade and am currently employed in 2 fields doing so--- I WISH I GOT 100% mark up on my orders....I am LUCKY to get 40% ---average is 30% and many "dogfight bid wars" end up in the 20% range

One of the 2 businesses compete against China and Mexico on a daily bassis ---we recently lost a Large Retail Box Office Supply store account-----because they could MAKE MORE PROFIT--- not get it faster- or better--- but make more PROFIT buying from CHina.
they where marking our product up 3.6 times the purchase cost--- and that wasnt enough "mark up/profit" for them

I personally lost a 10,000 pc order to a competitor this week --- who claims "USA OWNED AND OPERATED" but their production facility is JUST across the border in Mexico------their bid was 1/3 ours for the "identical" product.....not USA made--- but they bid and won --- and the client who ASKED for USA made .....didnt seem to care at those cost savings.
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Well, technically it is a 50% markup that is standard but the math can be hard to make sense of so folks commonly refer to doubling a price as "a 100% markup" even if not completely accurate. Either way, that's the standard. Certain business sectors have different competition models that dictate things differently (ex. I was in the alcoholic beverage industry briefly and there is a different markup applied to each beverage category - beer, wine, spirits, premiums all had a different markup percentage) but by and large if you go to the mall and buy a bunch of stuff that isn't on sale, or order a bunch of stuff from Sweetwater that isn't on sale you are paying twice what the seller did for that item, full retail. Not sure what your business is but again, obviously there are variances from the normal for different sectors and even within something like the guitar business you can negotiate the final price with the seller for most guitars that are over $800-$1000, so the street price may be different from the retail price, which is what I was trying to say earlier - they are likely applying a larger than normal markup in an attempt to get their street price down to their nominal 50% (100%) markup.
 
DonP said:
A doubling of price is 100% markup. A halving of price is a 50% markdown.
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The "business school" model that our accountants apply define a doubling of price as a 50% markup. Meaning, you take the total retail price and deduct 50% to determine the markup percentage o_O. My common sense says the same thing you do, that doubling the price means a 100% markup but my CPA colleagues enjoy correcting me.
 
gball said:
The "business school" model that our accountants apply define a doubling of price as a 50% markup. Meaning, you take the total retail price and deduct 50% to determine the markup percentage o_O. My common sense says the same thing you do, that doubling the price means a 100% markup but my CPA colleagues enjoy correcting me.
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Your colleagues are wrong. Either their understanding of maths is screwed up, or they are simply misusing the language. I suspect some of both.
 
DonP said:
Your colleagues are wrong. Either their understanding of maths is screwed up, or they are simply misusing the language. I suspect some of both.
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No, I think this is a fairly common method, I've seen it used by too many people at too many businesses. At least in the US.

Per Entrepreneur:
Even though there is no hard and fast rule for pricing merchandise, most retailers use a 50 percent markup, known in the trade as keystone. What this means, in plain language, is doubling your cost to establish the retail price. Because markup is figured as a percentage of the sales price, doubling the cost means a 50 percent markup. For example, if your cost on an item is $1, your selling price will be $2. Fifty percent of $2 is $1, which is your markup.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/193986

There are plenty of sources that parrot this scheme, this is just one of them.
 
gball said:
No, I think this is a fairly common method, I've seen it used by too many people at too many businesses. At least in the US.

Per Entrepreneur:
Even though there is no hard and fast rule for pricing merchandise, most retailers use a 50 percent markup, known in the trade as keystone. What this means, in plain language, is doubling your cost to establish the retail price. Because markup is figured as a percentage of the sales price, doubling the cost means a 50 percent markup. For example, if your cost on an item is $1, your selling price will be $2. Fifty percent of $2 is $1, which is your markup.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/193986

There are plenty of sources that parrot this scheme, this is just one of them.
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Nope, not having any of that. It is simply bad maths. It may be how accountants do it, but that doesn't make it right.
 
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