Amplifier Tone - Another Fascinating Jim Lill Video

[gball]

To me, it just apoears to be a monetization opportunity.

So? You posted a literal photo of cash earlier in the thread...so you monetized something. Why on someone for doing the same?

As has been stated, this guy is a touring musician as his 'day job' and likely making a decent living at it, so why can't he also have a side gig that makes some extra scratch and maybe helps some people along the way?

 

[smitty_p]

To me, it just apoears to be a monetization opportunity.

Doesn’t matter. What matters is the content.

 

[Inspector #20]

So? You posted a literal photo of cash earlier in the thread...so you monetized something. Why on someone for doing the same?

As has been stated, this guy is a touring musician as his 'day job' and likely making a decent living at it, so why can't he also have a side gig that makes some extra scratch and maybe helps some people along the way?

Not at all my intention.

I suppose anyone is free to do what they choose to do - and may they be blessed in said pursuit thereof - but i honestly find so little value in these endless dissections of tone, especially considering the subjective nature of the phenomenon, that i see it as nothing more than a monetizing opportunity.

I think its great, if you like that sort of thing, but i just don't find any tangible value in these videos, unless you are just watching for entertainment, in which case i find Mia Mao far more appealing.

I'm not your average follower of whatever is en vogue, which is disturbing to many.

God bless him with whatever he wants to do...but this is a bit like watching an episode of Seinfeld and being completely unable to find any humour in it.

 

[Inspector #20]

Doesn’t matter. What matters is the content.

Precisely my point. Educate me. What exactly did you derive from this video in particular????

 

[Inspector #20]

I will say that his videos are incredibly well produced and quite entertaining. Kinda hard to figure out where he has the time to do all these things, but the subject of tone is just so completely subjective that i find it really a strange practice to devote so much time to the study of such an abstract science.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

 

[Inspector #20]

View attachment 90911

LOL

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Jim Lill just dropped another video.

This is gold!

Well….it’s nice to see a little affirmation. I feel that this was another well done video from this guy. His presentation style is engaging enough, and he goes for the scientific approach. When I give any advice on recording, I usually try to touch on the importance of a solid mic, and a solid preamp/channel strip. No matter what else is going on at a session, the mic chain(mic, preamp, and anything else in the path to the A to D converters) is going to have a huge effect on the capture. I have proven this to myself many times over the last few decades. While I do like having a couple of “money” channels to work with, I also like to play around with some “less than popular” piles of pathways to the destination drive. If Beck can record an album on a 4-track cassette deck….well…some of that new fangled, cheap azz, electronic stuff might actually be used to make a decent bit of noise…it keeps me busy sometimes, and usually makes me smile a bit. So yes, I enjoyed this video. I am happy that it exists as a reference. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Just a little proof of concept that I have floating around on my SoundCloud….

https://soundcloud.com/id%3Duser-876355516%252Fopen-womb-wav-at%3Btrack_id%3D794290051

…any guesses on the only amp used to record guitars on it? Speaker? Speaker size?


I know it’s muddy as….insert feeble colloquial phrase here…
It was recorded around 2003.
Yesssss, I know it’s a poop drum machine…most of the cymbals are real though.(just not the high hats)
Bass was direct.
Recorded in an afternoon, at a leisurely pace. Preamps were AKAI DPS24…The first four…they were nice…my skills were not.
I just wanted to get the song “put together” for the band to absorb.

 

[smitty_p]

but i honestly find so little value in these endless dissections of tone, especially considering the subjective nature of the phenomenon, that i see it as nothing more than a monetizing opportunity.

Did you watch it? I ask because at one point he makes a point similar to one that you, yourself, have made. But, it's toward the end of the video. If you only watched the first few minutes, you didn't see it.

The interesting thing is that there has been a spate of these sorts of videos lately, both from Jim Lill and Glenn Fricker. The interesting thing about their dissections of tone (good phrase!) is that they actually serve a positive goal - saving people time and money. They kind of get to the bottom of things in a way that can help people avoid the endless rabbit trail of mods and purchasing ever more expensive "holy grail" amplifiers. They also emphasize to players the primary focus of playing and practicing more instead of buying more stuff.

 

[smitty_p]

Precisely my point. Educate me. What exactly did you derive from this video in particular????

Watch the video. When you have, let me know and I'll tell you what I liked about it.

 

[Inspector #20]

Watch the video. When you have, let me know and I'll tell you what I liked about it.

I have significantly less time these days in light of my new assignments, so i tend to "scan" things as time permits. I just expected another "price tag worshipper" type of presentation, but your description sounds very interesting.

 

[mashed potato]

One thing I have not seen him address is the "feel/response/feedback to ones fingers" that tubes do have that Quilter or digital stuff doesn't really offer. The sounds can get so close, but can't cop that interaction yet IMO. YMMV

 

[mashed potato]

Just a little proof of concept that I have floating around on my SoundCloud….

https://soundcloud.com/id%3Duser-876355516%252Fopen-womb-wav-at%3Btrack_id%3D794290051

…any guesses on the only amp used to record guitars on it? Speaker? Speaker size?


I know it’s muddy as….insert feeble colloquial phrase here…
It was recorded around 2003.
Yesssss, I know it’s a poop drum machine…most of the cymbals are real though.(just not the high hats)
Bass was direct.
Recorded in an afternoon, at a leisurely pace. Preamps were AKAI DPS24…The first four…they were nice…my skills were not.
I just wanted to get the song “put together” for the band to absorb.

Roland Cube with 4"? Sounds good to me.

 

[Inspector #20]

Watch the video. When you have, let me know and I'll tell you what I liked about it.

I think i have misjudged this content. I'm so jaded by the "pricetag worshippers" - both here in our forum and abroad - that i just kind of dismissed this as another "lokk what i paid for this" kind of perspective.

The fellow makes a lot of sense. He kind of surreptitiously raises the veils without calling anybody out by name.

Its a brilliant worldwide marketing phenomenon where people, who have been indoctrinated into the hype of "i can hear everything", buy more and more gear, searching for some nuance that is the product of perception...something i am a very outspoken opponent of in my role as a teacher and musical spirit guide.

Good call on this one, @smitty_p

 

[gball]

Its a brilliant worldwide marketing phenomenon where people, who have been indoctrinated into the hype of "i can hear everything", buy more and more gear, searching for some nuance that is the product of perception...something i am a very outspoken opponent of in my role as a teacher and musical spirit guide.

Everything is life is a product of perception. Every. Single. Thing that you experience, think or say is a product of your perception.

Sure, there's an entire industry trying to get you to part with your cash, but at the same time we all fall for it in one way or another - didn't you mod your amp relatively recently? Why? Because of the perception that it would sound better. Whether that perception is yours alone or shared by other people is irrelevant: if it makes a difference to you then it is different.

 

[T-Rex]

Overall I found the video somewhat entertaining, but didn't care for the "I 'm just a performer, and know don't know lines". And I don't think the comparisons that he used for examples were very good choices to pick from. Some of what I would refer to as "bottom tier" equipment is what he used for examples. Such as the difference between solid stare rectification and tube rectifications. The amp that he featured would be way different in sound compared to an amp that had a rectifier tube and the B+ was way lower than the same amp with a solid state that would make the B+ a lot higher. Just one example

 

[Inspector #20]

Everything is life is a product of perception. Every. Single. Thing that you experience, think or say is a product of your perception.

Sure, there's an entire industry trying to get you to part with your cash, but at the same time we all fall for it in one way or another - didn't you mod your amp relatively recently? Why? Because of the perception that it would sound better. Whether that perception is yours alone or shared by other people is irrelevant: if it makes a difference to you then it is different.

One distinction i would like to point out.

When i do make a change, it is for a HUGE change/return, not listening for the value of a capacitor and straining for a nuance.

And the Origin mod was a HUGE change in not only tone, but in sheer volume as well.

 

[gball]

One distinction i would like to point out.

When i do make a change, it is for a HUGE change/return, not listening for the value of a capacitor and straining for a nuance.

And the Origin mod was a HUGE change in not only tone, but in sheer volume as well.

But you can't value your own perception over someone else's. There could be a lot of people that do hear the difference in capacitor values (I sure can when I change the caps in a guitar, why not someone else in an amp?). And there could be a lot of people that don't give a rat's ass about what you did to the amp, because they may use it in a totally different way than you, negating the change. None of us should presume to be an arbiter of what others can and can't perceive, or what will or will not work for them, because it comes off as you feeling your opinion is more important than anyone else's - saying that when YOU make it change it is for a big difference then minimizing any differences that occur when someone ELSE makes a change is bordering on arrogance, sorry.

 

[Inspector #20]

But you can't value your own perception over someone else's. There could be a lot of people that do hear the difference in capacitor values (I sure can when I change the caps in a guitar, why not someone else in an amp?). And there could be a lot of people that don't give a rat's ass about what you did to the amp, because they may use it in a totally different way than you, negating the change. None of us should presume to be an arbiter of what others can and can't perceive, or what will or will not work for them, because it comes off as you feeling your opinion is more important than anyone else's - saying that when YOU make it change it is for a big difference then minimizing any differences that occur when someone ELSE makes a change is bordering on arrogance, sorry.

My methodology is very different here, in my discussions with you, than in the real world and i think that's a distinction that's being overlooked herein.

All these years that i worked as a session player, i told nobody nothing of my own opinions. I LISTENED and focused on doing what i was told and that quality kept me steadily employed.

Now, when i am asked specifically whether a given mod will produce a tangible change, i will offer my opinion in that context.

I believe i have a responsibility to my students to tell them something other than "paper in oil is best," or all the other bull that's been preache for decades, and in that context, i do interject my opinion.

I'll give you a real-world example.

A client recently asked me to change a ceramic disc capacitor - that measured .047uf - for a PIO that measured .047uf. I did what he asked and he was puzzled because it made no difference at all and i told him that it absolutely could not make a discernible difference from a scientific standpoint.

You cannot, in all honesty and candor, compare that to what @syscokid did to the Marshall Origin. Its a completely different thing, regardless of perception, or whther or not you like the tonal change, the tonal change slaps you right upside the head, and even non-musicians have commented on the change, and it is that precise distinction that is being disregarded within the confines of this discussion.