Intonation strategies

smitty_p said:
That’s what Ghostwolf is saying. But, instead of comparing the open string to the fretted note, he is saying to match the 12th fret harmonic to the fretted note.

For me, I use the fretted note, too. Also, to Don’s point, I not only fret where I’m going to play, but how I’m going to play. I don’t put a death grip on my strings, but I don’t have a super light touch, either. Though, the more I play, the lighter my touch gets.
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I wear a size 14 glove. When I was a cop, I had to have my gloves custom made. Everything I do is a "death grip" so to speak, and I intonate accordingly...

And why my necks are made 1-3/4" x 1-1/8" thick just to feel comfortable in my hands.
 
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I will start at the 12th fret. Then chrck intonstion st 3rd, 5th and 7th frets. If they are out, i will dial them in even if i.give up a little at the 12th fret.

Then I check open G, Em, Am, Bm, C#Minor, and D-minor for potential oscillations, including Barre Chords all the way from 3rd to 12th fret.

In general, once it sounds good to my ear, it will be slightly off-pitch at ALL positions on the tuner, but in-pitch to my ear.

In almost every case, where I have had a guitar accurately (perfectly) intonated at the 12th, it will be off on the lower frets...
 
syscokid said:
For me, it has to be a compromise between the harmonics of the 12th and fretted notes in the first 3 frets. I'm very heavy handed... bull in a china shop! I love my cowboy/open chords. A slight mis-intonation at the 12th does not bother me as much as a slight mis-intonation with open chords.
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ABSOLUTELY!
 
smitty_p said:
That’s what Ghostwolf is saying. But, instead of comparing the open string to the fretted note, he is saying to match the 12th fret harmonic to the fretted note.
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I see. In that regard, I would still apply the same philosophy in that, if the open string is what you use more (or for me exclusively), use that as the basis of your comparison. Ultimately, Ghostwolf says the open note and harmonic are the same, so it is a difference with no (or little) distinction.

gball said:
Fretted. But, I don’t fret too much about intonation TBH (sorry for the pun). I just use my little Boss chromatic tuner and get it as close as that will allow. I’m playing rock and usually bending strings when choking the neck so close enough is fine by me. Time spent obsessing about intonation is time not playing.
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I also agree with this, and do not demand perfect intonation, which is impossible because the guitar is an imperfect instrument in this regard. However, I am trying to develop a best practices method when I do intonate.
 
RVA said:
However, I am trying to develop a best practices method when I do intonate.
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My approach is to think in terms of how I am actually going to use the guitar. In a real-world situation, the pitch of the notes actually produced by the guitar while playing is what’s important.

Consequently, I tend to favor the approach of comparing open to fretted strings as that seems most analogous to how the guitar will actually be played.
 
smitty_p said:
My approach is to think in terms of how I am actually going to use the guitar. In a real-world situation, the pitch of the notes actually produced by the guitar while playing is what’s important.

Consequently, I tend to favor the approach of comparing open to fretted strings as that seems most analogous to how the guitar will actually be played.
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Makes sense to me.
 
Intonation on the lower frets must be tackled differently to higher frets. Always set the octave with the bridge. If there is a 2nd / 3rd fret problem, it must be tackled with the nut. If you try and get those right from the bridge, you will be several notes off by the time you get to the octave.
 
DonP said:
Intonation on the lower frets must be tackled differently to higher frets. Always set the octave with the bridge. If there is a 2nd / 3rd fret problem, it must be tackled with the nut. If you try and get those right from the bridge, you will be several notes off by the time you get to the octave.
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On my DoubleNeck, the bridge saddles are almost in a straight line and intonation is nearly spot-on everywhere....That's a quality build... :-)

Tune-O-matic.jpg
 
DonP said:
Intonation on the lower frets must be tackled differently to higher frets. Always set the octave with the bridge. If there is a 2nd / 3rd fret problem, it must be tackled with the nut. If you try and get those right from the bridge, you will be several notes off by the time you get to the octave.
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Adjusting the nut might even be used to improve intonation when the bridge cannot be adjusted (like the fixed bridge of my ABG)
 
bea said:
Adjusting the nut might even be used to improve intonation when the bridge cannot be adjusted (like the fixed bridge of my ABG)
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Sorry, but no. The critical distance from the nut is to the first fret. If that is wrong open chords will sound horrible. If your octave region intonation needs fixing, the bridge is your only option. I've removed bridges before now to move them to the right place. I made a temporary trapeze tailpiece that hooked over the body of the guitar then moved the bridge until intonation was right. Then I drew round the bridge with a fine pen, too all the stuff off and glued the bridge in place. Happily these days manufacturers seem to know what they are doing.
 
Well, the trick is a side effect of a nut compensation: if You do that, the amount of compensation at the bridge will reduce. Which means if You don't correct for that, the intonation will be a bit low. And if the correction happens to be a bit high before, that error will be reduced.
 
bea said:
Well, the trick is a side effect of a nut compensation: if You do that, the amount of compensation at the bridge will reduce. Which means if You don't correct for that, the intonation will be a bit low. And if the correction happens to be a bit high before, that error will be reduced.
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Well, that looks like a 50/50 chance. Better to just see that the nut only intonates the first fret, while the bridge handles the entire guitar.

And of course if the nut height is right, that first fret will be correctly intonated by design.
 
DonP said:
Well, that looks like a 50/50 chance. Better to just see that the nut only intonates the first fret, while the bridge handles the entire guitar.

And of course if the nut height is right, that first fret will be correctly intonated by design.
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So amazed at my doubleneck. Despite having 2 strings sharing a common saddle, it intonates dead on everywhere, and all the saddles (on both necks) are almost in a straight line.

Tune-O-matic.jpg
 
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Possibly small angles across the saddles, relatively thin strings that need less compensation.
 
gasket said:
So thin gauge strings require less compensation?
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Correct. But, if your guitar intonates fine with, say 10's, switching to something a lot smaller, like 8's, likely will result in the need to move the saddles forward. If you have a rather narrow bridge, like an ABR-1, you may not have enough forward travel to properly intonate all of the strings, especially the higher ones.

I say, "may" because sometimes you never know before trying.
 
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gasket said:
So thin gauge strings require less compensation?
New stuff to me never considered such.
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Yep. A perfect string gets all of its centring force from its tension. That string will have the octave fret exactly half way along. Thicker strings only get part of their centring from tension, the rest comes from their inherent stiffness. They need a longer top octave part, hence the bridge saddle moves back. That's why the saddles form two diagonal lines. Wound strings are actually a thin string with a winding for added weight. The inner string gets thicker as the pitch drops, just the same as the non-wound strings.
 
DonP said:
Yep. A perfect string gets all of its centring force from its tension. That string will have the octave fret exactly half way along. Thicker strings only get part of their centring from tension, the rest comes from their inherent stiffness. They need a longer top octave part, hence the bridge saddle moves back. That's why the saddles form two diagonal lines. Wound strings are actually a thin string with a winding for added weight. The inner string gets thicker as the pitch drops, just the same as the non-wound strings.
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Midnight now, I almost understand, not at my sharpest this time of night. Will digest that early in morning. Thanks for comment, I'm sure it's straight forward. A little here and a little there all educating Gasket the late starter.
 
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