Gibson Bashing or good review, What say you?

smitty_p said:
I'm glad you framed this as a general observation and not an absolute statement.

That's good.

Let me first say that I do agree that a Floyd Rose style locking nut is preferable to a behind-the-nut string lock. So, in general I would agree that a behind the nut string lock is probably not the best solution...but it does vary from installation to installation.

Back in the '80s, I had a Washburn Wonderbar on my '74 SG. I still have that tremolo. Anyway, I did not personally install it at the time, as I was new to guitars. I had it installed by a guitar shop shortly after I got the guitar. They installed the lock behind the nut as that is what came with the Wonderbar kit. I used that system for many years without any problems and it returned to pitch very nicely. I do not know if the shop made any modifications to the nut slotting to make it work better with the string lock, but I doubt it.

Incidentally, one popular user of the Washburn Wonderbar is Pat Simmons of the Doobie Brothers. I believe he still uses it to this day. It's a pretty decent system, but it does not have quite the downward range of something like a Floyd.
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The first guitar i ever bought for myself brand new was a 1983 Ibanez DT555 Destroyer.

It had the Ibanez Pro-Rocker Locking Tremolo, that was the forerunner of the later Edge Tremolo. It had a locking nut behind the nut. I had a lot of tuning issues with that tremolo, most of it with the fulcrums and some with nut slot profiles and the lock nut, which was held with tiny wood screws, woukd loosen up with Tremolo use.

Eventually, about 1985, i had Wayne Charvel convert it to a Floyd Rose and move the lock nut so that it replaced the stock nut and it was fantastic after that. The repair was so good that you had trouble telling it had been fixed.

I'm not a big Tremolo guy, but i like my YelloStrat 6-screw tremolo for projects where a Tremolo is desired. Its good enough and stays in perfect tune.

I can drop it 11 semitones, bar-to-the-wood, which is good i think for most things, anyways.

I got offered the job at Fender after someone saw my "11 Semitone Divebomber" video, so for a stock Fender tremolo, that's pretty good performance.

However, i think the 1-3/4" wide, 1-1/4" thick, deep 'V' profile, roasted maple neck plays a secret part in this guitar's tuning stability.
 
Inspector #20 said:
However, i think the 1-3/4" wide, 1-1/4" thick, deep 'V' profile, roasted maple neck plays a secret part in this guitar's tuning stability.
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I agree. I did an experiment many years ago on my '74 SG.

When you depress a vibrato bar, all we generally think about is the strings going slack and any friction at the nut or bridge. However, while paying careful attention to my SG, I noticed the neck also relaxes just a tad. Even aside from an actual observation, this is just sensible. That's the whole reason the truss rod was invented: to counteract the neck flexion exerted by the strings. Anyway, when you release the bar, the spring has to pull everything back into place - including the neck. Whereas we constantly think about the bridge and nut, how often do we think about the neck?

I cannot say with absolute, categorical certainty, but I am somewhat of the opinion that some individual guitars may never work well with a vibrato simply because of the neck on that particular instrument. I am also leaning toward the idea that certain woods, such as tight-grained, consistent woods, such as maple, are just physically more suitable to vibrato applications.

Again, this is hypothetical, and I lack the means to subject the idea to more rigorous and scientific testing, but I think there is some merit to the idea.

Nevertheless, it would be relatively easy to see the point. One could remove the strings from a guitar and set the neck to be perfectly flat. Then, install the strings, tune the guitar to pitch, and check the neck relief. That relief is how much the string tension flexes the neck. Consequently, that neck flexion is what a vibrato has to pull a neck back to after use. Of course, this does not prove the point I made above, so I may still be incorrect in my thinking, but it does somewhat illustrate the idea.
 
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I've come to this conclusion, simply put: are Gibsons expensive? Well yeah they are. But you know what you're getting. There WERE some massive QC issues a while back but I haven't seen that in recent times. You're buying something for it's reputation, it's looks, it's comfort and it's playability.

It's no different than if you are looking for a sports car and you got the means, you land yourself an Italian supercar. Or, if you don't have the means you can get some Japanese tuned elite car or maybe even something from the Big 3 like a Hellcat Challenger, ZL1 Camaro or GT350. It will perform well and it's awesome. But that doesn't give you carte blanche to begin $hit talking the guy who bought a Ferrari and say " well this Hellcat is way better and cheaper". You know it's not true but you lie to yourself because it's what? SOUR GRAPES.

Just enjoy what you got and if you can't afford the thing you want? Don't begin hating it now over that reason alone because it's petty as hell and that's largely what I'm picking up with these reviews more and more. They KEEP going to the price point, kinda showing their hand
 
On the run of the mill Gibson will not buy after year 2000 I think it's the quality of wood
the local music store gets Gibson guitars once in awhile I have first shot most the neck angle is messed up bridge 1/2" or more off the body
when I was searching for a 335 I played over 50 of them to find the one
My close friend just got a regular 1960 Les Paul Classic I played it then played My 1960 RO Custom Shop dead donkey
Kurt saved up for a made to measure Murphy Lab 1959 Les Paul Standard stunning to look at and played well just lacking the sound dead
One thing I should point out both my Custom Shop Les Pauls sounded good out of the box but after 17-18 years the sustain doubled
at first I thought it was my amp switched amps it was the guitar 2017 My wife gave me a 1958 Les Paul Standard
I call it the beater burst it's refret refinish it has the voice of GOD as things go my every day player is a 2000 Gibson Explorer LE
I put early T Tops in it wonderful sounding guitar to each his own I know what works for me was in my first band as a guitar player
1972 been through hundreds of guitars and amps my brother in law we were in guitar class 1969 Scott collected Pre CBS Fenders
custom colors and I sold him most of my Marshall amp collection after Scott's death his father gave me his collection I don't
have room in my house and my father in law said to never sell Scott's collection that's the deal
 
Ive discovered - after buying 5 brand new Gibsons between 2003 and 2017 - that the real quality doesnt happen under $3,000.

From a $799 Gibson SG T-Series, to a $899 Les Paul 50's Tribute, and up to a $1,050.00 Les Paul Studio, the difference in build quality, finish, wood quality/grain/color, fret wearability, setup and how the hardware is attached, (no crooked screws, cocked tuners, loose inserts, etc.) is a night-and-day difference between the Gibson Entry-Level guitars and my 2021 Les Paul 50's Standard Gold Top - and - it should be a night-and-day difference, quite honestly.

I have seen a few "decent" $799 SG T-Series, meaning they intonate, have reasonable neck angle, etc., but i honestly believe that good guitars in that "economy line" are largely accidental and not anything you could expect to experience on a regular basis.
 
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Bottom line is that materials have gone up in price example the wood I use for my wood carving knife handles
was $28.00 in 2008 is now $150.00 or is it just inflation
when I got my 335 guitar list price was $3400.00 I paid dealer cost $1700.00 my friend is a Gibson dealer 100% mark up
but when your a dealer and have to floor product it only makes sense
when I was in the marine business if I sold a new boat 40% profit margin plus extras at 100%
Makes me wounder how HB can sell a SG at this price slave labor

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Inspector #20 said:
If they are 250's, then yes, a Sterling. If 100's or 150's, then an 8.8" differential.

The joking point of my post was, after describing those heavy loads, you may post that Ford axles suck because of the overloading, especially because i thought you were doing this in a 100 or 150!!!

The reply was entirely meant as a joke...people in general seem to overload pickups, or tow 20,000 pounds, then say they suck when something fails from the overloading.
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Robert, remember my other post elsewhere where I said, I " knew " you, huh?

I also knew you were kidding as your train of thought read the loads I mentioned.
 
Inspector #20 said:
The reply was entirely meant as a joke...people in general seem to overload pickups, or tow 20,000 pounds, then say they suck when something fails from the overloading.
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I left off the rest of the story about heavy load hauling, so here it goes.

As I was going to be needing way more gravel than I got in my pickup, I borrowed my friend's brother's old International Dump truck to haul roughly 9+ ton loads. Well, the fun began on my way home fully loaded. About 1/3 the way back, I stopped in the only little town between the gravel yard and home to get fuel. After fueling, I turned the key but the engine didn't fire up. And of course the key broke off in the ignition, and since it was a manual trans, with vac assist braking, I had a bit of a panic as I mashed on the brake pedal as hard as possible in order to not lose control and drift backwards downhill out into the road or crash through the bank across the street.

Somehow I got the nub of a key turned and the truck started. ( Likely found a pair of pliers while still braking)

Needless to say, those were a tense few minutes and a forever story between me and my buddy who's brother lent me the truck.
 
Inspector #20 said:
We seen guys load an F100 like that! LOL
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Any ome that wants a great instrument without feeling like you just hired your own child slave labor or break any copy right laws buy one of these.Great guitar,better anointments than most Gibsons that cost 3 grand.Grover Rotomatics,Ebony fret board,sorry Gibson owners, real Seymour Duncan P90 dogear,CTS pots,hand wired.9lbs mine is.Plays,feels fantastic.Only thing i didnt like is the hoaky trc Blues Power.799$ from Sweetwater,free shipping with a case.No Gibson needed here or wanted.Plus i cant beat the poop out of rhis with out worry.My 2 cents only.Screenshot_20230605-055259_Gallery.jpg
 
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