Odd Intonation Issue on 24.75" Tele-Style Build:

chilipeppermaniac said:
Robert, I know it is hard to visualize when trying to read the words and not actually doing the job yourself or seeing the thing in person.

I am operating on a new laptop that I have not loaded pics on yet, so I can't post the pics and doctor them up with arrows and stuff. I did that kind of stuff on amps a little of on my old laptops. Maybe @SG John can help me scratch my head and answer how he addresses the tail piece inserts into the bodies scenario.
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When I install just the bridge, I measure from the nut to the twelfth fret with a Starrett hardened 24" scale, and then use a 6" Starrett scale to get my end point. If the twelfth fret is at 12.281", I know I have to get the bridge centered a little beyond 24.562", and tilt it so the bass side is 1/8" behind the treble. Often, I already have the tailpiece in place, and sacrifice a set of strings to make sure that I mount the bridge correctly.

As for combination tailpieces such as on a Les Paul or SG Junior, I use a diagram someone on on of the forums gave me.

If it's already in the wrong place, mess with the intonation to make it as good as possible. If not, bore a huge blind hole, make a plug lining up the grain, refinish, and start from scratch.
 

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I stole a few images from an ETSG poster about his guitar and I pulled out my LP last night and definitely see my repair has held up so the tailpiece inserts are perfectly flush and fully set into the body of the guitar. My repair was superior to the Factory warranty man's work which was to remove and reinstall the inserts with some glue. By adding dowels and redrilling, I had holes that were round and angled properly, unlike when the holes were egg shaped and inserts lifted under torque of the string to bridge geometry. Mine were lifting worse than you can see in this picture. I lost all my pics of mine due to Photobucket and a crashed HD on one of my old Laptops. I may have some on the HD's of my other 2. I just have to transfer them here to this laptop.

lifting-tailpiece-1-jpg.76435
 

Attachments

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SG John said:
When I install just the bridge, I measure from the nut to the twelfth fret with a Starrett hardened 24" scale, and then use a 6" Starrett scale to get my end point. If the twelfth fret is at 12.281", I know I have to get the bridge centered a little beyond 24.562", and tilt it so the bass side is 1/8" behind the treble. Often, I already have the tailpiece in place, and sacrifice a set of strings to make sure that I mount the bridge correctly.

As for combination tailpieces such as on a Les Paul or SG Junior, I use a diagram someone on on of the forums gave me.

If it's already in the wrong place, mess with the intonation to make it as good as possible. If not, bore a huge blind hole, make a plug lining up the grain, refinish, and start from scratch.
Click to expand...

You Da Man!!!
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
I stole a few images from an ETSG poster about his guitar and I pulled out my LP last night and definitely see my repair has held up so the tailpiece inserts are perfectly flush and fully set into the body of the guitar. My repair was superior to the Factory warranty man's work which was to remove and reinstall the inserts with some glue. By adding dowels and redrilling, I had holes that were round and angled properly, unlike when the holes were egg shaped and inserts lifted under torque of the string to bridge geometry. Mine were lifting worse than you can see in this picture. I lost all my pics of mine due to Photobucket and a crashed HD on one of my old Laptops. I may have some on the HD's of my other 2. I just have to transfer them here to this laptop.

lifting-tailpiece-1-jpg.76435
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Neck angle is off.
 
Robert, How does a guitar leave the factory with an off neck angle? I mean you would think that after millions of guitars, this would be a set dimension that is duplicated every time and the PROPER angle would not deviate.
 
My 2016 Gibs SG with 12th fret action at .070"

2016 Gibson SG Corrected Pickup Angle.jpg

My 2021 Gibson Les Paul 50's Standard with 12th fret action at .070" (which is where the factory set it)

20211118_050453.jpg
 
Here is the thread I advised in, plus sysco n a few other familiar names.

www.everythingsg.com

SG tailpiece bushings lifting - major problem?

Hi all, Got a good deal on an SG today, as I noticed the bridge bushings were leaning forward from the body, so was able to get the price down. Hoping it's not going to be a difficult fix - or have I bitten off more than I can chew? see pic... It's lifted about half the amount it appears to...
www.everythingsg.com www.everythingsg.com
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
My LP as it sits today. 7 years after my repair.
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Gibson's published (desired) specification for neck angle (modern guitars not trapeze tapiece variants) is 4° with 3° and 5° both being acceptable deviations.

The local Gibson warranty tech measured the neck angle on my 2016 Gibson Les Paul 50's Tribute and recorded nearly 8° and the bridge screws were up as far as they would go and the action was only .040" at the 12th fret...
 
8 does seem pretty steep.

In the ETSG thread, the OP did post some pics to where he got his bridge and TP readjusted and they are a more manageable angle.
He said his guitar was an Epi SG.

Judging by your new LP and my EPI. I can lower my Tailpiece down and make it essentially a solid fit to the inserts. I believe I hesitated to lower it down in order to minimize downward pressure on the bridge plus since I top wrapped the strings, there is no chance the strings bind at the edge of the bridge.
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
8 does seem pretty steep.

In the ETSG thread, the OP did post some pics to where he got his bridge and TP readjusted and they are a more manageable angle.
He said his guitar was an Epi SG.

Judging by your new LP and my EPI. I can lower my Tailpiece down and make it essentially a solid fit to the inserts. I believe I hesitated to lower it down in order to minimize downward pressure on the bridge plus since I top wrapped the strings, there is no chance the strings bind at the edge of the bridge.
Click to expand...

My 2021 Les Paul 50's Standard has the tailpiece decked, action at .070" and strings are clear of the bridge.
 
Robert, here was my original 2014 Thread for my EPI LP.

Maybe I can retrieve my pics of the lifting Inserts and my progress. I just have to search either clouds, hard drives, and laptops for them.
Stupid Photobucket.

www.everythingsg.com

Tail Piece Issue with My Epi LP.

I mentioned this issue I found on my LP. Found a thread on MLP when I googled this. Here is a pic of Tail Piece studs pulling up out of guitar that I found on MLP. Mine is worse. Almost decided to give Epi Gibson warranty a shot at correcting this for me. Still on the fence as I usually...
www.everythingsg.com www.everythingsg.com
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
Robert, here was my original 2014 Thread for my EPI LP.

Maybe I can retrieve my pics of the lifting Inserts and my progress. I just have to search either clouds, hard drives, and laptops for them.
Stupid Photobucket.

www.everythingsg.com

Tail Piece Issue with My Epi LP.

I mentioned this issue I found on my LP. Found a thread on MLP when I googled this. Here is a pic of Tail Piece studs pulling up out of guitar that I found on MLP. Mine is worse. Almost decided to give Epi Gibson warranty a shot at correcting this for me. Still on the fence as I usually...
www.everythingsg.com www.everythingsg.com
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Sounds like you fixed it right!!!!!
 
Robert, I bet you'd have had a blast intonating and even keeping my guitar in tune long enough to stay sane enough to stay out of the asylum.

The guitar had almost no other issues whenever I tried it out at the store. I played it awhile at home after buying it and maybe it was a string change from the factory ones that led me to see the issue. If you notice, even the bridge one is lifting, and that is with a downward pressure on it. If you look hard enough, you can also see the TP studs lean forward, not just the bar's natural tilt as this design yields.
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
Robert, I bet you'd have had a blast intonating and even keeping my guitar in tune long enough to stay sane enough to stay out of the asylum.

The guitar had almost no other issues whenever I tried it out at the store. I played it awhile at home after buying it and maybe it was a string change from the factory ones that led me to see the issue. If you notice, even the bridge one is lifting, and that is with a downward pressure on it. If you look hard enough, you can also see the TP studs lean forward, not just the bar's natural tilt as this design yields.
Click to expand...

That would drive me nuts...
 
Robert, I wish it did not cost so much to ship guitars from coast to coast, or I might be in the story of sending my guitars to you to set up and send back to me. Or how fun to take a vacation and haul all my guitars out and have a pow wow where the 2 of us work through your system of steps to right the wrongs ( wear, bad setups etc) or just to tweak the ones that are a smidge out. We'd have a blast, and maybe I could circle the route and see all the California Contingent.
 
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