Looking For More Punch In YelloStrat:

Inspector #20

Inspector #20

Ambassador of Tone
Fallen Star
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I'm feeling like my tone with the 8.1k A4 PAF in the bridge of YelloStrat, just doesn't quite have the punch I need. It's decent sounding to be certain, but it doesn't develop enough gain in comparison to my 14k Passive in my Jackson, or my EMG 81TW in my Schecter.

I have been looking at DiMarzio humbuckers. I feel like sticking with an Alnico magnet is probably the right way to go.

I've found some good contenders...




And one that interested me was a DiMarzio Rail that is described as a "de-tuned X2N."


What's critical for me is output. Even with a tube screamer, it's tough to get any gain out of an Origin 50H.

I don't want to lose clarity and definition, but need a tight bottom end.

Hmmmm....

Thoughts???
 
Yeah the Dimarzio X2N and its companions, the D Activator and Crunchlab are all pickups that sound like something you're looking for. The d activator is more open sounding than the x2n, the crunchlab is more aggresive but clearer than the x2n. Other comparable pickups are Bill Lawrence X500XL and Seymour Duncan SH-13 Dimebucker ( which is based around both the Bill Lawrence and DiMarzio X2N)

All of these are Ceramic vs Alnico so theres gonna be some different tone from the beginning obviously
 
Clockworkmike said:
Yeah the Dimarzio X2N and its companions, the D Activator and Crunchlab are all pickups that sound like something you're looking for. The d activator is more open sounding than the x2n, the crunchlab is more aggresive but clearer than the x2n. Other comparable pickups are Bill Lawrence X500XL and Seymour Duncan SH-13 Dimebucker ( which is based around both the Bill Lawrence and DiMarzio X2N)

All of these are Ceramic vs Alnico so theres gonna be some different tone from the beginning obviously
Click to expand...

Dimarzio actually told me they could make a X2N with A5!
 
67plexi said:
Robert you want punch replace the plywood body.
Click to expand...

You know, at one time I would have agreed with that statement. But, after seeing guitars made from 2x4's and even solid concreate, sheet aluminum and even a single section of 3/4" plywood, I'm less an less convinced that wood has as much to do with tone as we have been told all these years....
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
Ambassador of The Viking Conquests?
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Mitch Pearrow SJMP said:
I like Horror movies
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Clockworkmike said:
Yeah the Dimarzio X2N and its companions, the D Activator and Crunchlab are all pickups that sound like something you're looking for. The d activator is more open sounding than the x2n, the crunchlab is more aggresive but clearer than the x2n. Other comparable pickups are Bill Lawrence X500XL and Seymour Duncan SH-13 Dimebucker ( which is based around both the Bill Lawrence and DiMarzio X2N)

All of these are Ceramic vs Alnico so theres gonna be some different tone from the beginning obviously
Click to expand...
Mitch Pearrow SJMP said:
SD Invader
Click to expand...
Clockworkmike said:
Thats a very aggressive pickup as well!
Click to expand...


HOW do you guys know all these things?

There is so much gear out there, it is getting as hard to keep track of models as it is all the car options out there once we got past 1988.
 
One thing the DiMarzio tech told me this morning was interesting.

He asked about my current bridge pickup and I told him 8.2k 42AWG A4 Magnet. The first things he said was, "Ok, that's almost identical to our PAF Master DP261, right down to the A4 magnet, 42AWG winds and nickel-silver baseplate. With a pickup like that, you need to be almost touching the strings to get enough output, but the A4 magnet doesn't pull on the strings, so you can get away with it...."

He suggested the following settings:

Low 'E' to slug bobbin to string fretted at 22nd fret: 2/32"

Low 'E' screw pole piece to string fretted at 22nd fret: 1/32"

High 'e' slug bobbin to string fretted at 22nd fret: 3/32"

High 'e' screw pole piece to string fretted at 22nd fret: 2/32"

I usually set all my humbuckers to 4/32" fretted at the 22nd fret, so I tried the suggested settings. My screw poles are set slightly above the bobbin and level with one another.

20210203_081947.jpg

Holy Biscuits, Man!!! The increase in output, clarity and definition was like night and day. It sounded better clean, and it sounded better overdriven.

I might hold off on the new pickup until after our next live show and just see how this works...
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
HOW do you guys know all these things?

There is so much gear out there, it is getting as hard to keep track of models as it is all the car options out there once we got past 1988.
Click to expand...
Lol for me its a case of being full of useless trivial information that often doesnt benefit anyone. Ask me some math problems or something relevant? And im hopeless. Ask me a stupid jeopardy question and ill spring to life :pound-hand:
 
Robert Herndon said:
I'm feeling like my tone with the 8.1k A4 PAF in the bridge of YelloStrat, just doesn't quite have the punch I need. It's decent sounding to be certain, but it doesn't develop enough gain in comparison to my 14k Passive in my Jackson, or my EMG 81TW in my Schecter.

I have been looking at DiMarzio humbuckers. I feel like sticking with an Alnico magnet is probably the right way to go.

I've found some good contenders...




And one that interested me was a DiMarzio Rail that is described as a "de-tuned X2N."


What's critical for me is output. Even with a tube screamer, it's tough to get any gain out of an Origin 50H.

I don't want to lose clarity and definition, but need a tight bottom end.

Hmmmm....

Thoughts???
Click to expand...

It has more to do with the wood....and the shape

Conventional wisdom is constantly trying to tell us that the sound comes from the electronics.
It doesn't.

Conventional wisdom tells us that we make huge changes by changing pickups.
It won't.

The basic sound of the guitar from the wood is there to stay no matter what pickup.
No matter what electronics ---no matter what tone cap, etc...you can't change the sound of the guitar.

But what will make the big difference is:
A mahogany body, or a ironwood body, or a koa body...etc....
compared to a poplar or other light weight less dense wood.
Then you will get the change you keep looking for. It's not in the pickups.

Indecently maple is a poor choice unless it's combined with other woods.
Maple by itself kills the sustain and makes the guitar dead as hell.
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
It has more to do with the wood....and the shape

Conventional wisdom is constantly trying to tell us that the sound comes from the electronics.
It doesn't.

Conventional wisdom tells us that we make huge changes by changing pickups.
It won't.

The basic sound of the guitar from the wood is there to stay no matter what pickup.
No matter what electronics ---no matter what tone cap, etc...you can't change the sound of the guitar.

But what will make the big difference is:
A mahogany body, or a ironwood body, or a koa body...etc....
compared to a poplar or other light weight less dense wood.
Then you will get the change you keep looking for. It's not in the pickups.

Indecently maple is a poor choice unless it's combined with other woods.
Maple by itself kills the sustain and makes the guitar dead as hell.
Click to expand...

In complete agreement. I just have too much of my own personal anecdotal experience to feel otherwise.

For pickups I've found it comes down to two basic philosophies: lower-output or higher output. Lower are more open, articulate and dynamic. Higher are more compressed, a bit tighter and often more percussive. That being said, I've found very little difference in switching between types, i.e. changing out one low-output for another or one high-output for another. I've also found that low-output work better, generally, for hard rock and old-school metal (that's what that music was made with after all) and high output of course for more modern chugga and broots.

Robert, I would take anything that a pickup company tells you with a grain of salt. It's their job to try to sell you a set of pickups after all, so they will try to make it sound like every little element is a night and day difference. It's not.

You want more grunt? Your money is much, much better spent investigating some high gain OD's or straight up distortion pedals IMO. TS's are fantastic but just not capable of the kind of noise you seem to be seeking. Some of the greatest tones ever recorded are low-gain Marshalls with the right stomp box in front of them.
 
gball said:
Robert, I would take anything that a pickup company tells you with a grain of salt. It's their job to try to sell you a set of pickups after all, so they will try to make it sound like every little element is a night and day difference. It's not.
Click to expand...

Actually, the tech at DiMarzio has actually encouraged me to give my home-built pickup a good run before replacing it. He feels like I am really close to 'right" with this nickel-silver baseplate, 42AWG, 8.1k A4 Humbucker...
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
It has more to do with the wood....and the shape

The basic sound of the guitar from the wood is there to stay no matter what pickup.
No matter what electronics ---no matter what tone cap, etc...you can't change the sound of the guitar.
Click to expand...

My experiences have been the opposite. I'm not a tone-wood believer in all honesty. We often imagine all manner of things, often to justify our purchases and I reject subscription to that point of view.

For example...

My Jackson is a super-heavy guitar. It's made from Poplar with a maple neck. It has a 14k ceramic passive humbucker

My Schecter is the lightest next to YellowStrat. It is Mahogany body and neck with EMG 81TW

I have two Les Paul Copies. Both are traditional mahogany construction. Both have Epiphone H8BN 14k pickups.

I can switch between all (4) guitars and nobody (not even me) can detect a difference in how it sounds.

@Mitch Pearrow SJMP has heard me run through the different guitars live at Primo Studios in Riverside and he will attest to this.

Two of my engineers have remarked on how similar the 4 guitars sound and they produce virtually identical waveforms.

Now, the YelloStrat is a brighter guitar than any of the others. However, when fitted with a 16k humbucker, it was on-par with the other guitars for tone, but I didn't like the ceramic magnet.

I think the Alnico is the way to go in this case...
 
Robert Herndon said:
My experiences have been the opposite. I'm not a tone-wood believer in all honesty. We often imagine all manner of things, often to justify our purchases and I reject subscription to that point of view.
Click to expand...

Interesting observation. I would have said the same about pickups/electronics. Guess at the end of the day we all believe what our own ears are telling us and really no amount other people's anecdotal experience is going to sway what we hear and feel with our own hands. And that's good, really.

Robert Herndon said:
Actually, the tech at DiMarzio has actually encouraged me to give my home-built pickup a good run before replacing it. He feels like I am really close to 'right" with this nickel-silver baseplate, 42AWG, 8.1k A4 Humbucker...
Click to expand...

That's the kind of thing I was referring to. I will never accept that the material a baseplate is made of could make a bigger different than the kind of wood a guitar is built out of. What I know is this: a dog is a dog, and no matter how many pickup changes I have made to a dog it remained a dog. On the other hand, when I have had a good piece of wood its virtually impossible to make it sound bad no matter what is in it. Again, my own experience and no one else's.
 
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