12AX7 Shootout with Pete Thorn
- Thread starter syscokid
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BFT Gibson
Ambassador of Originality
watching, that Marshall sounds great. Interestingly Mullards mostly in my Marshall's after i send them to my tech, have done well with them. We sit down before taking home & run a few through.. As time goes on seem to be tweaking towards less gain & fuller tone.
Amp Mad Scientist
Ambassador of Heresy
I know there is major differences between 12AX7s.
Some of them have a major advantage over others and produce a night and day affect.
Some are clean, some are wildly over-powered.
Most "NOS" tubes are fake. These are just old used tubes that "test" good.
And so it's not really a fair comparison to test old / used / pulled from other amps, etc.
But rather you need to start on a more level playing field....
Some of them have a major advantage over others and produce a night and day affect.
Some are clean, some are wildly over-powered.
Most "NOS" tubes are fake. These are just old used tubes that "test" good.
And so it's not really a fair comparison to test old / used / pulled from other amps, etc.
But rather you need to start on a more level playing field....
Clockworkmike
Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
That was a cool video and pretty well done. I hate when someone does a test like this and then plays a different riff or style: you cant fairly judge the sound from A to B.
That being said, i liked the old Mullard and Amperex tubes in this but the Shuguang and Sovteks were quite good too. My favorite though was the 12Au7. They can give a really cool, no frills sound and open it up naturally (i use one in V1 of a JCM2000 DSL50 myself)
That being said, i liked the old Mullard and Amperex tubes in this but the Shuguang and Sovteks were quite good too. My favorite though was the 12Au7. They can give a really cool, no frills sound and open it up naturally (i use one in V1 of a JCM2000 DSL50 myself)
SG John
Ambassador of Cool Guitars and Amps.
That was a fun waste of time.
I'm a fan of the old Mullards, Amperex, Brimar, and Telefunkens. My reissue JTM has Brimar and Telefunken 12ax7s in it, as well as RFT EL34s. My '79 JMP is full of old Blackburn Mullard tubes, and sounds amazing. I have an Amperex Bugle Boy EF86 in my DST30, as well as a good collection of Mullard, Telefunken, and Siemens tubes. It's another great sounding amp.
Now, I'll probably have to play with the box full of 12ax7s that I have, and see what sounds best in the V1 position of my JTM45 build. Haven't done anything other than play it after getting V3 sorted.
I'm a fan of the old Mullards, Amperex, Brimar, and Telefunkens. My reissue JTM has Brimar and Telefunken 12ax7s in it, as well as RFT EL34s. My '79 JMP is full of old Blackburn Mullard tubes, and sounds amazing. I have an Amperex Bugle Boy EF86 in my DST30, as well as a good collection of Mullard, Telefunken, and Siemens tubes. It's another great sounding amp.
Now, I'll probably have to play with the box full of 12ax7s that I have, and see what sounds best in the V1 position of my JTM45 build. Haven't done anything other than play it after getting V3 sorted.
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I didn't bother to watch the the shoot-out clip, I don't think it's possible to get a true representation of how each tube sounds in a YouTube video clip.
That said, we all know that the different ECC83/12AX7 types all have their own characteristic "sound," whether we like them or not in a particular amp pretty much comes down to personal preference.
I have (NOS) Mullard, Brimar, Amperex, RCA, GE (both GE & JAN GE), Super Radiotron (Aussie made RCA), Sylvania, Aussie made Philips Miniwatt (Mullard tooling & material stock) & probably more, & different "types" of many of them.
All but one of my 4 hole Marshall type amps have a Blackburn Mullard 163 series (ribbed grey plates) in V1 & V3 (some V2 as well). Hard to beat these for that classic Marshall sound, they just deliver that big aggressive sound. I do like a Brimar CV4004 box plate type in V2 & have this tube in my '69 superlead & '68 JMP50 type amps in that position. Seems to give the overdrive sound a crunchy, gritty characteristic & delivers good highs without getting shrill or pearcing. The Philips Miniwatt also sound great in all positions of these amps. I have a "red tipped" Amperex Bugle Boy (slated for V1 in an upcoming '68 JMP50 build) that I tried in my similar amp. Really good sounding tube. Doesn't have the heavy mids of the Mullards, very rich open sound with great clarity & detail right across the frequency range. I'd like more of these.
My 2204/ Caswell #39 has Sylvania's in all positions. It did have a GE in V1 but a Sylvania 7025 knocked it out of there.
Again, it comes down to personal preference. Cheers
That said, we all know that the different ECC83/12AX7 types all have their own characteristic "sound," whether we like them or not in a particular amp pretty much comes down to personal preference.
I have (NOS) Mullard, Brimar, Amperex, RCA, GE (both GE & JAN GE), Super Radiotron (Aussie made RCA), Sylvania, Aussie made Philips Miniwatt (Mullard tooling & material stock) & probably more, & different "types" of many of them.
All but one of my 4 hole Marshall type amps have a Blackburn Mullard 163 series (ribbed grey plates) in V1 & V3 (some V2 as well). Hard to beat these for that classic Marshall sound, they just deliver that big aggressive sound. I do like a Brimar CV4004 box plate type in V2 & have this tube in my '69 superlead & '68 JMP50 type amps in that position. Seems to give the overdrive sound a crunchy, gritty characteristic & delivers good highs without getting shrill or pearcing. The Philips Miniwatt also sound great in all positions of these amps. I have a "red tipped" Amperex Bugle Boy (slated for V1 in an upcoming '68 JMP50 build) that I tried in my similar amp. Really good sounding tube. Doesn't have the heavy mids of the Mullards, very rich open sound with great clarity & detail right across the frequency range. I'd like more of these.
My 2204/ Caswell #39 has Sylvania's in all positions. It did have a GE in V1 but a Sylvania 7025 knocked it out of there.
Again, it comes down to personal preference. Cheers
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ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I totally agree with all of this, with exception to the part about most NOS tubes being fake & just old pulls that still test good.
Now I accept that there are fakes out there, like a certain German supplier (allegedly) Lazer etching a diamond between the pins of 12AX7's to fake Telefunken's (to anyone familiar with these they should be noticeable at a glance), but on the whole, since it was first introduced by RCA in 1946, the 12AX7 quickly went on to be arguably the most widely used valve on the planet & produced in very large numbers by practically every manufacterer going. As such, even though some types are very rare, a good many types are still quite available as NOS & NIB.
As I've said before, avoid buying off eBay & the likes, buy through a respectable supplier. Cheers
OP
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
True, true, true... But despite the audio limits of YouTube, you can still hear some worthwhile differences between the different tubes in Pete's video. I think that Brimar was my favorite of all of them.
Dude! This is better than Viagra! How long ago did you start getting into the vintage tubes? I think just about all those tubes you named are at least $200 on up if you can locate any?
B759 Genelex Gold Lions
OP
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
Me thinks this is an excellent suggestion! I wish Pete would have been able to include a Genelex in the mix.
bea
AmBASSador of the F Clef
But regarding the JJ tubes the shootout was a bit unfair: he tested the (fairly new) 12AX7MG which has a reduced gain. That explains that it did not compete with the others. JJ' "real" 12AX7, the ECC83S is a really different thing - it continues latest Telefunkten technology with the "ladder grid" (Spanngitter), and it is on the level of my old Telefunken tubes - and in my Mywatt (JJ ECC83S, Telefunken ECC81 as PI, and JJ KT88), these tubes just sound great. I really prefer them over the russian ECC83 (EH ECC83). In the Mywatt and in the Valve Juniors. I did not test, but maybe in the DIY preamp of my G2000 the EH might be preferable, just because its crispness.
In the shootout i actually preferred the tubes with the warmer tone, especially the Telefunken, and i was a bit disappointed on the Mullards - a bit harsh to my ears.
In the shootout i actually preferred the tubes with the warmer tone, especially the Telefunken, and i was a bit disappointed on the Mullards - a bit harsh to my ears.
Mr Grumpy
Ambassador of Comings and Goings
Rabbit hole...
As a few members on here know, I looked in depth at 3 of these and three power tubes in a very simple amp - insanity ensued.
I'll watch that video though (I love stuff like that; even better than a woman, so good, there's no/little need for Viagra.).
It's been a while:
As a few members on here know, I looked in depth at 3 of these and three power tubes in a very simple amp - insanity ensued.
I'll watch that video though (I love stuff like that; even better than a woman, so good, there's no/little need for Viagra.).
It's been a while:
OP
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
Jethro Rocker
Ambassador of Live & Loud Action
I have a variety of old Mullards, GE, RCA, RFT, Amperex, Raytheon long hlack plates, Ei smooth plates, etc. Trouble is so many tubes and so many spots to put them in. I pay the most attention to V1 in the cascading amps, obviously. The lower gain Marshalls do like Mullards. Have to pkay with the new SC20 now.
It is indeed a rabbit hole.
It is indeed a rabbit hole.
Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
V1 is of importance in any amp, as along with the sonic characteristics, any noise, heater induced hum, microphonics etc here is all passed on down the line to be further amplified. Ever found that a tube that is noisey or microphonic in the V1 position can be just fine if placed further along in the signal chain?
With the low gain Marshall (4 holer) type amps, V2a is, IMO almost equally important as V1, as it is the first tube that is being overdriven by the preceding stage, so has an impact on the overdrive characteristics. I mean, how often do we play these amps "clean". Cheers
Jethro Rocker
Ambassador of Live & Loud Action
Right. The 6101 uses different tubes for different channels so for example V1 in that amp is strictly clean channel, whoch I do not care. V2 becomes the first gain stage for channel 2 and I thjnk it's V3? that is the first one for channel 3. So quieter tubes where possible cause, yeah, I don't want to pass that noise further on.
I have a couple of microphonic ones I use for PI in 2 amps. But for the most part, V1 is the biggie for me. And V2 , amp dependent.
Cheers!
Kerry Brown
Ambassador of the Great Northern Bar Jams
The Telefunken was the best to my ears. I liked the low end.