Solid State. Love it? Hate it?

[gball]

I've played a Dumble, they are nice amps and have a distinct tone, but not for 85K.

I've plugged into two of them in my life, both Overdrive Specials. Fine sounding amps, but I don't get the hype that people believe justifies the prices at all. For the right player they may be the Grail but I have plugged into many other amps that I felt sounded better, including one that I currently own. Maybe I'm just a hack and have no no refinement

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

OK, to expound on that last thought of gball. Having played only a handful of tube amps, one other than amps I own that I really enjoyed is a Fender Bassman. I cannot comment on MANY of either Solid State options or Tube amps, but I can say, my 50 watt Marshall JMP head when healthy is a beautiful sounding and feeling amp to play both Single coil and Humbucker guitars thru. When I wanted to add more tube amps to my selection I had intended to buy a Bassman 59 Reissue back when they were under $1000 US but found a nice Fender Red Knob The Twin combo amp for around $400-$450 if I recall correctly. DonP has said he has one of these too. His one comment I remember is he rarely gigs with it to save his back from hefting it to and fro. I would welcome further commentary on his experiences with how it sounds and settings and versatility wise.

In addition to those 2 Tube amps, I managed to find an 8 knob Laney AOR Pro Tube 50 watt head that I have discovered needs some wires replaced to various places on the board due to mouse damage. For quick plug and play practice stuff I have a number of Solid State amps. 1st is my Ashdown Mag 300 bass head, next is my Red Knob Princeton Chorus that I put 2 Weber Speakers in, and finally is my Peavey Envoy 110.

So to conclude, I obviously like both types and like all my above mentioned amps.
In case y'all are interested, my Speaker compliments are equally as nice.
Stock Speakers in the Twin, 4x12 300 watt 1965A Marshall, 2x10 Weber Vintage Series Ferromax speakers in my Princeton Chorus and a 1x15 Ampeg and 4x10 Mesa Boogie Road ready cab with David Eden Speakers.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Simple question. Solid State. You like it?

Simple answer: no.

Having said that, ss certainly has its place, and amazing sounds can be ushered from well designed/constructed ss amps. I was never much of a believer other than the ease, lightweight, cost and simplicity, but since I got the THR10 I've realized that sounds can be very good too. The THR 10 does not sound as good as the amps it simulates at gig or band practice volumes, but (I think) sounds better than them at low bedroom volumes, and is portable and takes batteries, and I really love the way the onboard effects sound good with every amp. Thus, simple answer: yes.

Now, can a ss amp sound as good at higher volumes as a tube amp? Probably.

Some real examples:

1) I played an SG through an AC30 in the shop. Bought the guitar, took it home and played it through the AC30 sim; sounded good, but did not have the characteristic presence and godly wave of musical love that an AC30 dishes up. There's a powerful AC30 something, I can't explain it..., that seems to take music beyond its present state into another dimension - the Yamaha doesn't do this.

2) The Yamaha is good, but even at low volumes it doesn't bring out the guitars character that my 1 watt Randall tuber did. The Yamaha is lighter, easier to use, better with pedals, more convenient, etc, etc, has loads of different sounds, but the one overdriven heavy bluesy tone that I loved from the Randall (a bit like a fully driven Princeton, but much lower volume???) cannot be replicated by the Yamaha. Tubes do give something extra imho.

Maybe a more expensive ss that's designed to gig can do all this stuff; I haven't heard one, but I haven't heard many amps, and as folks say, in a club with bad sound and loads of general noise, maybe one cannot much tell the difference?

 

[Relic]

OK, to expound on that last thought of gball. Having played only a handful of tube amps, one other than amps I own that I really enjoyed is a Fender Bassman. I cannot comment on MANY of either Solid State options or Tube amps, but I can say, my 50 watt Marshall JMP head when healthy is a beautiful sounding and feeling amp to play both Single coil and Humbucker guitars thru. When I wanted to add more tube amps to my selection I had intended to buy a Bassman 59 Reissue back when they were under $1000 US but found a nice Fender Red Knob The Twin combo amp for around $400-$450 if I recall correctly. DonP has said he has one of these too. His one comment I remember is he rarely gigs with it to save his back from hefting it to and fro. I would welcome further commentary on his experiences with it sound and effects and versatility wise.

In addition to those 2 Tube amps, I managed to find an 8 knob Laney AOR Pro Tube 50 watt head that I have discovered needs some wires replaced to various places on the board due to mouse damage. For quick plug and play practice stuff I have a number of Solid State amps. 1st is my Ashdown Mag 300 bass head, next is my Red Knob Princeton Chorus that I put 2 Weber Speakers in, and finally is my Peavey Envoy 110.

So to conclude, I obviously like both types and like all my above mentioned amps.
In case y'all are interested, my Speaker compliments are equally as nice.
Stock Speakers in the Twin, 4x12 300 watt 1965A Marshall, 2x10 Weber Vintage Series Ferromax speakers in my Princeton Chorus and a 1x15 Ampeg and 4x10 Mesa Boogie Road ready cab with David Eden Speakers.

Why not just get an original Bassman from the 60's or even a Silver Face Bassman?? You might think they are more expensive but I bought mine ('64) cheaply enough ($600-ish). In fact if you are willing to e-snipe a couple auctions that you like you can often get these heads for $500 to $700 in good working order! And... they are always going to be worth that! & on the right day to the right guy, maybe even a little more. lol

I remember cranking that old Bassman at practice for the first time. It was literally like magic! In that guitar sound I could here a flood of old songs come back to me & going, 'That's that sound!'. Same as playing those old Marshall JMP's bring out those tones & tunes from the great days of Rock 'n Roll. There is nothing like having an old Fender, the sound, the look, the simplicity & even the smell!!! It's all good bro! lol

Another old Fender that will knock your socks off is a Fender Bandmaster (Reverb) with Master Volume! These seldom get the attention & recognition of the classic Bassman but they really can kick some major a$$ for an old Fender. I honestly have gotten the one I have to sound real close to a JMP! My Bandmaster has a solid state rectifier that really tightens things up like a Marshall & unlike an old Bassman which leaves the biggest tonal difference being the tone characteristics of the Bandmasters 6l6 power tubes vs a JMP's 6550 or EL-34 tubes. I said close dammit! But it is there man. Plus it has a smoking inboard Reverb & killer 'Born On The Bayou' Tremolo that will having you adding the song to the Jam list as faster than you can say John Fogerty!
Just so you can use & hear the effect!

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Why not just get an original Bassman from the 60's or even a Silver Face Bassman??

Bro B, If I may say so, when you know me well enough you won't have to ask this question. I already planned to do this.
It is called plan B. I put these type purchases in the pecking order in which they MIGHT ever be possible to implement one day.

Things like amps and guitars etc now have to fit behind the $$$$$ I must pursue to buy stuff like health and dental insurance,root canals and crown, back pain management, vehicle maintenance and to pay stuff like taxes and mortgages, electric bills, home renovations, etc.

Another old Fender that will knock your socks off is a Fender Bandmaster (Reverb) with Master Volume!

Also, in case your sound pallete is diverse enough to incorporate another amp sound heard on countless recordings, I have another amp in the down the road radar. Having never put a pick to guitar to amp to hear my self playing one, my interest is also piqued to know the magic of Vox amps like AC30, AC15's.

Having posted the above, my brain moves me to ask after doing so just how will one of those modeling amps do at hitting the sound of a Vox, or Bandmaster, Bassman etc.?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Maybe a more expensive ss that's designed to gig can do all this stuff; I haven't heard one, but I haven't heard many amps, and as folks say, in a club with bad sound and loads of general noise, maybe one cannot much tell the difference?

Now that I mentioned the AC30, I go back and read Grumpy Betty's post about them vs modelers.
In my experience listening to and also attending live musical performances, I did witness a certain older brand of SS Amp that not only delivered some pretty hot goods, but also had a lot of top Pro players who gigged and made loads of music with this line of amp and speaker cabs.

I have no experience or knowledge of the current amp using this moniker but the old school Acoustic brand SS amps had a great rep if I am not mistaken. I cannot count how many enjoyable nights I spent no more than 4-6 feet away from my buddy as he played his Music Man basses thru Acoustic Bass heads and giant speaker cabs with what I think he told me had 18 inch speakers.

A good writeup can be seen here. Plus I will post the text for anyone who wants to read less than the full text.

6 Classic Amps Every Bassist Should Know

Acoustic 360/361
Chief proponents: Larry Graham, John Paul Jones, Jaco Pastorius
The volume of guitar amplifiers was on a hyperbolic curve throughout the entire decade that gave us The Boomers. If you start with the guitar volume of the Everly Brothers in 1960 and end with Jimi Hendrix in 1969, the volume differential is similar to the one between a sewing machine and a Saturn V rocket. The Ampeg B-15 was simply not designed to win a head-to-head collision with a Marshall stack set to “kill.” Something had to be done on behalf of bass players everywhere.

In 1967, enter the Acoustic 360, a 200-watt, solid state head designed to drive the 361 cabinet, a rear-firing 18” speaker enclosure modeled, I believe, after the Panzer tank. The 360/361 absolutely towered over the B-15, physically and sonically, and got the bass world ready for the Woodstocks, Altamonts and giant festival concerts to come.

In December of 1967, the Acoustic 360 actually helped The Doors get arrested for noise violations and put them - and the amp - on the cover of Life magazine. This notoriety had a very predictable response, which is that it made the amp a must-have for serious rockers who would love to be arrested by The Man for bass notes alone.

Not that this was an easily accessible piece of gear. The suggested retail price of the 360/361 package back in 1967 was $1250.00, which in 2014 dollars comes to USD$8,850.00 Not. A. Typo. There is not, to my knowledge, another bass amp that costs nine grand, unless you’re cutting an SSL console in half and dragging that around, which is actually a pretty awesome idea.

Nevertheless, price be damned, the best bassists of the era knew that this was a killer amplifier. Larry Graham himself used these towering stacks for the thumb, the stank and the funk. Led Zeppelin’s virtuosic bassist John Paul Jones had to keep up with Jimmy Page, for the love of Pete, and with the Acoustic 360 (or, say, a wall of them) he could. And there was a young bassist from Florida who knew that if he was going to be The Best, he had to play The Best Amp. That’s when Jaco Pastorius saved all his money (legend has it, sleeping on the beach when his bandmates on the road slept in hotel beds) and eventually purchased an Acoustic 360, which gave Jaco’s fretless J-bass that instantly-recognizable bump in the upper-mids that provided him bassdom’s most enduring, original voice.

CALLOUT: Check out Bobby Vega’s paean to the Acoustic stack here, and dig his Zeppelin riffs

 

[syscokid]

I used to hate SS, but after a few years ago when the Fractal Audio Axe Fx & then the Kemper Profilers hit the market, it got me wondering. I haven't yet personally tried any of these systems, but I'm afraid they're going to burst my bubble on my love for tube amps if I did try one. Especially the Kemper with its own power amp supply. The reviews and Internet demos are jaw dropping. Investment in a fully powered Kemper with Remote Controller, and with a Full Range Flat Response speaker cab will be steep (even though any type of speaker can be used). I'm guessing $3K at least with a FRFR speaker added.

The investment would be offset by selling 6 out of 7 of my tube amps. I'm imagining all the precious real estate my Mancave would gain. All, or most of my extra tubes, stash of resistors, caps, wires, pots... gone. Soldering would be relegated to guitars only. Pedals? WTF would I want any of those anymore? It's kinda depressing thinking about all this...

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

HAHA I love this comment in reply to the Bobby Vega video.

"Nice to hear a real story associated with a player for once, as opposed to the usual "my mom got me a guitar, I got some tats, threw a fifty cent piece in my earlobe and play like everyone else" crap Rock On!"

 

[Relic]

Bro B, If I may say so, when you know me well enough you won't have to ask this question. I already planned to do this.
It is called plan B. I put these type purchases in the pecking order in which they MIGHT ever be possible to implement one day.

Things like amps and guitars etc now have to fit behind the $$$$$ I must pursue to buy stuff like health and dental insurance,root canals and crown, back pain management, vehicle maintenance and to pay stuff like taxes and mortgages, electric bills, home renovations, etc.



Also, in case your sound pallete is diverse enough to incorporate another amp sound heard on countless recordings, I have another amp in the down the road radar. Having never put a pick to guitar to amp to hear my self playing one, my interest is also piqued to know the magic of Vox amps like AC30, AC15's.

Having posted the above, my brain moves me to ask after doing so just how will one of those modeling amps do at hitting the sound of a Vox, or Bandmaster, Bassman etc.?

Sorry, I totally misread that post. I somehow was thinking you said you were thinking about buying a '59 Bassman re-issue! but you actually were trying to say 'back when I was still thinking about buying...' or verbatim..

When I wanted to add more tube amps to my selection I had intended to buy a Bassman 59 Reissue back when they were under $1000 US

it was just worded in a way allowed my mind to twist it sideways because after all,.. who stops wanting to buy a Fender Bassman?? C'mon. You know you still do! Who needs dental coverage when you can own a classic tube amp & rock yer Rotten Toothed Blues away??

 

[Relic]

I used to hate SS, but after a few years ago when the Fractal Audio Axe Fx & then the Kemper Profilers hit the market, it got me wondering. I haven't yet personally tried any of these systems, but I'm afraid they're going to burst my bubble on my love for tube amps if I did try one. Especially the Kemper with its own power amp supply. The reviews and Internet demos are jaw dropping. Investment in a fully powered Kemper with Remote Controller, and with a Full Range Flat Response speaker cab will be steep (even though any type of speaker can be used). I'm guessing $3K at least with a FRFR speaker added.

The investment would be offset by selling 6 out of 7 of my tube amps. I'm imagining all the precious real estate my Mancave would gain. All, or most of my extra tubes, stash of resistors, caps, wires, pots... gone. Soldering would be relegated to guitars only. Pedals? WTF would I want any of those anymore? It's kinda depressing thinking about all this...

You really ready for such a drastic life change bro?? You know there is more to these vintage gems we've collected than just their awesome tone! It's the whole damn package! The whole mindset, the relationship & love affair we have for all our girls, gone!???
You could do that to 6 out of 7 your babies for some high priced solid state piece of expensive hooker bootie?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Bro B.

My initial enjoyment of a bassman was trying one of the Tweed 59 Bassman LTD reissues that my mom and pop shop had for $900-$999 about 10 years ago. I really liked the sound of those 4x10's. Now after doing some reading about Fenders and the new ones vs old, I saw the superiority of the older ones. Now fast forward to another decision I made that really blew my pea brain mind a bit. Where my SS Princeton Chorus sounded ok with it's Blue Label Special Design stock speakers, I upgraded to a pair of Weber Vintage Ceramic 10F150T speakers. WOW do they perk up this old school Fender SS amp.
Also, I would not hesitate to even make a mod to this amp to add a jack to use it as an extension cab for a Tube head because they sound that good.

HAHA after digressing, I hear ya about "giving up" wanting to buy a Bassman. Not gonna happen. If I can find the example, I will post it here and you will see I understand the point you are trying to make.

 

[Relic]

Bro B.

My initial enjoyment of a bassman was trying one of the Tweed 59 Bassman LTD reissues that my mom and pop shop had for $900-$999 about 10 years ago. I really liked the sound of those 4x10's. Now after doing some reading about Fenders and the new ones vs old, I saw the superiority of the older ones. Now fast forward to another decision I made that really blew my pea brain mind a bit. Where my SS Princeton Chorus sounded ok with it's Blue Label Special Design stock speakers, I upgraded to a pair of Weber Vintage Ceramic 10F150T speakers. WOW do they perk up this old school Fender SS amp.
Also, I would not hesitate to even make a mod to this amp to add a jack to use it as an extension cab for a Tube head because they sound that good.

HAHA after digressing, I hear ya about "giving up" wanting to buy a Bassman. Not gonna happen. If I can find the example, I will post it here and you will see I understand the point you are trying to make.

Just for right now, let's choose to focus on the post circuit change Bassman ('64 & later) where the presence knob is gone & the BlackFace panels are no longer worded Fender 'Electric' Instruments but have changed to Fender 'Musical' Instruments simply because they are less desirable to collectors & can be very affordable for us to pick up! But they are absolutely great amps that I like even more than the older versions because they just Rock & sound beautiful all at the same time!

Here's an old '66 Bassman that demonstrates it's wideness of use & shows off the beautiful interaction between man, guitar & tube that Solid State is just hard pressed to come by & easily reproduce. By the time he goes above 6 on the volumes things are sounding oh so good.

 

[guitarweasel]

Works for me....

 

[Relic]

Works for me....

View attachment 4167

Well Weazie, you got all the essential amplifier basses covered brother! And not only do you know how to decorate a wall, but y'all keep a nice house too!

 

[smitty_p]

I used to hate SS, but after a few years ago when the Fractal Audio Axe Fx & then the Kemper Profilers hit the market, it got me wondering. I haven't yet personally tried any of these systems, but I'm afraid they're going to burst my bubble on my love for tube amps if I did try one. Especially the Kemper with its own power amp supply. The reviews and Internet demos are jaw dropping. Investment in a fully powered Kemper with Remote Controller, and with a Full Range Flat Response speaker cab will be steep (even though any type of speaker can be used). I'm guessing $3K at least with a FRFR speaker added.

The investment would be offset by selling 6 out of 7 of my tube amps. I'm imagining all the precious real estate my Mancave would gain. All, or most of my extra tubes, stash of resistors, caps, wires, pots... gone. Soldering would be relegated to guitars only. Pedals? WTF would I want any of those anymore? It's kinda depressing thinking about all this...

First, let me be clear...I'm not against modelers, Line 6, Fractal, Kemper, or whatever. I'm not against tubes. And, I'm not against SS. I don't believe in "debating" the topic. Play what you like.

But, I do have to ask ya...

If you did play the Kemper...and if it did everything your tube amps do...why would you have to sell them to get the Kemper? I mean, If your tube amps do what you like now, why sell them to get something else that does something similar? They don't need to burst your bubble for your tube amp. Even if they sound identical to your tubers, so what? That's no reason to have a fire sale on your tube amps. If they sound like what you like...keep 'em and jam on!

This is where I will quote member @Paul G. :

"If someone tells you something is just as good as whatever, buy the whatever."

 

[syscokid]

First, let me be clear...I'm not against modelers, Line 6, Fractal, Kemper, or whatever. I'm not against tubes. And, I'm not against SS. I don't believe in "debating" the topic. Play what you like.

But, I do have to ask ya...

If you did play the Kemper...and if it did everything your tube amps do...why would you have to sell them to get the Kemper? I mean, If your tube amps do what you like now, why sell them to get something else that does something similar? They don't need to burst your bubble for your tube amp. Even if they sound identical to your tubers, so what? That's no reason to have a fire sale on your tube amps. If they sound like what you like...keep 'em and jam on!

This is where I will quote member @Paul G. :

"If someone tells you something is just as good as whatever, buy the whatever."

I like your reasoning on this. I doubt any of my amps are really going anywhere while I'm alive. And if one or two go, they'll be replaced by another one or two. At the current moment, I want to build two more amps. A Champ style amp and a JTM45 style. On the other hand, I'm 58, and entertain the idea of simplifying and downsizing. Not just amps, but guitars and pedals, too. There's also many other non musical related stuff that could go on the chopping block. I sometimes feel that I have too much f'n stuff, and I don't want my crap to be a burden on my family when it's time to go. These are just thoughts right now that have gain some energy from the buzz surrounding the Kempers.

One amp to rule them all... is it possible? No tubes that need replacing. No 50 to 100 lbs. heads, cabs, or combos to haul around. A 1 x 12 speaker cab and its relevant real estate footprint, is all I would need. Want a Blackface Princeton with more that 100 watts of clean headroom? Want a 50 watt hot rod JCM800 thumping at one watt levels? Want the Dumble sound and performance, but not at $50,000? That should be no problem. Anyways, I don't personally know anyone who has a Kemper. And if the closest Guitar Center has one to try out, it's more than 2 hours away and I'm not enthusiastic enough to make that trip just to try it out.

...

 

[Session 5]

I like SS.

 

[Inspector #20]

Here are my thoughts.

My VS265 Valvestate sounds better at low volumes.

My DSL40C sounds better at high volumes.

 

[gball]

Here are my thoughts.

My VS265 Valvestate sounds better at low volumes.

My DSL40C sounds better at high volumes.

I should go out and find one of those old Valvestates. I keep going through different SS "practice" amps and they all just leave me cold, but I remember those things sounding great every time I plugged into one.

 

[Inspector #20]

I should go out and find one of those old Valvestates. I keep going through different SS "practice" amps and they all just leave me cold, but I remember those things sounding great every time I plugged into one.

I gotta say...when I first played this one brand new in the shop (Damage Inc. on Court Street in Visalia, Ca.) The low volume tone, presence and attack impressed me so much that I bought it on the spot.

It still makes me mad that it sounds better than my DSL40C everywhere except really high volume.

It's got some scratchy buttons/switches and a lot of floor noise when its plugged in (plus amplified noise on the chorus system) but it's still got one of the best rock tones I've ever heard.



I heard a used 20watt (IIRC) Vakvestate at Guitar Sinner a while back and it sounded really GOOD!