More Gain From Germino Lead 55:

syscokid said:
We can all suggest a boatload of higher gain amps, but unless Mr RH's bandmate wants to invest in a boatload of money, me thinks that a more practical and economical method is being requested... :popcorn:
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Absolutely. Robert mentioned the two amps and they are awesome but aint cheap. Im never one to try to lead anyone into a financial mineshaft. If you got the means? Go for it! But im a chiseler anyways so i personally look for the cheapest way lol
 
Clockworkmike said:
Absolutely. Robert mentioned the two amps and they are awesome but aint cheap. Im never one to try to lead anyone into a financial mineshaft. If you got the means? Go for it! But im a chiseler anyways so i personally look for the cheapest way lol
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What amazes me is how some dudes will invest so much time and effort to delay the inevitable expense of stepping up to the "right" tool for the job.

Then, you have dummies like me with a $499.00 Origin 50 and a 1987 Tube Screamer that generates more gain than anyone could possibly need... :-)
 
Robert Herndon said:
What amazes me is how some dudes will invest so much time and effort to delay the inevitable expense of stepping up to the "right" tool for the job.

Then, you have dummies like me with a $499.00 Origin 50 and a 1987 Tube Screamer that generates more gain than anyone could possibly need... :-)
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Thats the EVH school of thought: simplicity but make it sound massive and full. I think thats one of the greatest assets you can have: making what you got work and keep tweaking until you unlock that one sound that clicks.

Im more than confident that whatever sound i got coming out, is not original or iconic and never will be lol but i dug around long enough to find the sound that i liked and works and that stems from working with what you got i suppose
 
Clockworkmike said:
Absolutely. Robert mentioned the two amps and they are awesome but aint cheap. Im never one to try to lead anyone into a financial mineshaft. If you got the means? Go for it! But im a chiseler anyways so i personally look for the cheapest way lol
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Right! I have no personal experiences with anything by Granger Amps, but we can take it a step further and source the same parts as in the X-Gain package for half the cost. So for an extra $15 you're paying for
1: Somebody else to go thru the hassle of getting the parts together.
2: Provide some good instructions that also become educational.
3: And buying him a beer as a thank you... :cheers:
 
Clockworkmike said:
I AM cheap so maybe thats why lol but i do love the Rockerverb50 and Thunderverb 200, that one is a monster! I even like the cool MatAMPS and their Green variants of Orange ( used to be a part of the company before the two creators split and went their own ways)
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I've only played with vintage Orange amps, and then some Matamps over in the U.K. I think everyone misses the point with those amps, especially the stoner bands. They are wonderful amps with huge headroom, and super clean. To get natural distortion from them, they need to be very loud. Instead, people tend to throw a ton of pedals in front of them because they are "great pedal platforms", which seems like a huge waste of money and amplifier. I always thought the best example of how these amps are supposed to sound is Wishbone Ash. They were able to bring out the sound of what the guitars actually sound like because of how clear these amps are. The song "Warrior" is probably the quintessential Strat sound, and it's because of the Matamps.

I would love to have a Matamp. When I visited Lex Lurid (of ETSG fame) about ten years ago in England, he had three Matamps at his house. If I could have put one in my suitcase, I would have.
 
Robert Herndon said:
Then, you have dummies like me with a $499.00 Origin 50 and a 1987 Tube Screamer that generates more gain than anyone could possibly need... :)
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Nothing dumb about this approach at all.
The Germino 55 Lead is a clone of a (transitional, early '68) JMP50, a tried & proven classic & the "stick a pedal in front of it" approach is also a tried & proven formula, just choose the pedal wisely. Using this approach he can stomp the pedal in/out as needed & still have the amp, that he obviously bought for a reason, stock.
If he is dead set on modding the amp, there's several routes that can be taken, but be aware that adding gain/increasing sensitivity of the pre-amp often results in a higher noise floor.
While there's extra gain/sensitivity to be had from the 4 hole format, cascading V1a/V1b is often the more popular way to go. The easiest way to do this is what is known as the (Randy Rhoads) "one wire" mod. While some people like this mod, IMHO it sounds pretty meh. A better way of cascading V1a/V1b, as suggested by AMS, is to convert the pre-amp to a 2203/2204 type. This is easily accomplished so anyone that is competent should be able to do it in a short time (& for a quite reasonable cost if paying to have done). Once done, even more gain/sensitivity can be easily had from it if needed, though it must be done wisely.
All that said, if it were me, I'd use a pedal. Cheers
 
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ivan H said:
Nothing dumb about this approach at all.
The Germino 55 Lead is a clone of a (transitional, early '68) JMP50, a tried & proven classic & the "stick a pedal in front of it" approach is also a tried & proven formula, just choose the pedal wisely. Using this approach he can stomp the pedal in/out as needed & still have the amp, that he obviously bought for a reason, stock.
If he is dead set on modding the amp, there's several routes that can be taken, but be aware that adding gain/increasing sensitivity of the pre-amp often results in a higher noise floor.
While there's extra gain/sensitivity to be had from the 4 hole format, cascading V1a/V1b is often the more popular way to go. The easiest way to do this is what is known as the (Randy Rhoads) "one wire" mod. While some people like this mod, IMHO it sounds pretty meh. A better way of cascading V1a/V1b, as suggested by AMS, is to convert the pre-amp to a 2203/2204 type. This is easily accomplished so anyone that is competent should be able to do it in a short time (& for a quite reasonable cost if paying to have done). Once done, even more gain/sensitivity can be easily had from it if needed, though it must be done wisely.
All that said, if it were me, I'd use a pedal. Cheers
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I'm suggesting he go that way, but we will have to wait and see....
 
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Robert Herndon said:
I', suggesting he go that way, but we will have to wait and see....
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Yeah, I was wondering if your bandmate is Hellbent on not using a pedal. Mild overdrives are perfect for simulating an amp's extra gain stage with added tone control too.

But I also understand the allure of having an amp with more natural gain available. My attitude with my two JCM800's (One is a heavily modified real Marshall; the other is heavily modified unreal Marshall), is that with the right speakers, the stock 2204 circuit is pretty inspiring and the original designers nailed it the first time. Any mods outside of the original circuit that I introduced can be bypassed.
 
syscokid said:
Yeah, I was wondering if your bandmate is Hellbent on not using a pedal. Mild overdrives are perfect for simulating an amp's extra gain stage with added tone control too.

But I also understand the allure of having an amp with more natural gain available. My attitude with my two JCM800's (One is a heavily modified real Marshall; the other is heavily modified unreal Marshall), is that with the right speakers, the stock 2204 circuit is pretty inspiring and the original designers nailed it the first time. Any mods outside of the original circuit that I introduced can be bypassed.
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I will keep you posted!!!!!
 
Clockworkmike said:
I AM cheap so maybe thats why lol but i do love the Rockerverb50 and Thunderverb 200, that one is a monster! I even like the cool MatAMPS and their Green variants of Orange ( used to be a part of the company before the two creators split and went their own ways)
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Every time I see those this pops in my head....not even the same amp but I see Laney & MATAMP and I hear this in my head!
 
RobV said:
Every time I see those this pops in my head....not even the same amp but I see Laney & MATAMP and I hear this in my head!
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The MatAmps, Oranges and Laneys are now closely associated with Stoner and Doom sounds and are the standard for such. Which like @SG John said, is ironic since most of each brand were inherently clean. Laney AORs had no in between almost: either clean or over the top gain. Orange began going heavy with the Thunderverbs on the second channel as well, as has the GT120 MatAmps
 
Clockworkmike said:
The MatAmps, Oranges and Laneys are now closely associated with Stoner and Doom sounds and are the standard for such. Which like @SG John said, is ironic since most of each brand were inherently clean. Laney AORs had no in between almost: either clean or over the top gain. Orange began going heavy with the Thunderverbs on the second channel as well, as has the GT120 MatAmps
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The 1st amp I bought was a Laney AOR30 Combo...lol Let's just say I wasn't ready for it, so what did I do....I traded it for a Marshall 3203 thinking I could control the volume better with a head and 2x12 cab:pound-hand:
 
RobV said:
The 1st amp I bought was a Laney AOR30 Combo...lol Let's just say I wasn't ready for it, so what did I do....I traded it for a Marshall 3203 thinking I could control the volume better with a head and 2x12 cab:pound-hand:
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That was an Artist right? Amazing amp! I liked how it was a hybrid but they did it right with the valve power amp/ SS preamp, unlike the ones today where its an SS power amp/ valved preamp ( i have a Marshall Mode Four like that) and it seems like they dont work as well.
 
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