Solid State. Love it? Hate it?

Dude, those ^^ are awesome!! I came withing a kittens hair of buying the mini head (got something else instead) and I still may succumb. They even sound righteous at low volume in the 5-watt mode. And you are right, they don't have nearly as much gain as modern Marshalls so the fizz and buzz is kept to a minimum.
 
Dude, those ^^ are awesome!! I came withing a kittens hair of buying the mini head (got something else instead) and I still may succumb. They even sound righteous at low volume in the 5-watt mode. And you are right, they don't have nearly as much gain as modern Marshalls so the fizz and buzz is kept to a minimum.

Yeah man I agree. Granted I'm only judging by a video clips sound but we can certainly hear other amps give way to noisy buzz tone in these types of clips so,.. maybe you're on to this being due to not wringing every potential what out of those power tubes (2 EL34 tubes) which can be driven to produce 50 watts & I hear sometimes even more. But I'm also interested in its components as well such as its filtering & other design factors that may be responsible for this amps unusual organic quality for being a Marshall.

At one time I was greatly intrigued by the change in tone of the Marshall Lead amps from the 70's through the 80's which gave way from an somewhat organic tone to a thinner, brittle tone with a buzzing bee quality to it in the form of added static noise. One of the factors beside the added gain stage was that Marshall kept changing components & tweaking the design so it could be made cheaper. This meant less power supply filtering, transformer changes & circuit design changes as well.

So what did Marshall do to suddenly produce this well behaved & relatively purer organic sound reproduction? Certainly it sounds quieter & purer than the original Silver Jubilee which was very capable of sounding like a beehive!
 
So what did Marshall do to suddenly produce this well behaved & relatively purer organic sound reproduction? Certainly it sounds quieter & purer than the original Silver Jubilee which was very capable of sounding like a beehive!

No idea, but I like it. I got to try one out in an isolated room with a sealed 2x12 (Bogner IIRC) so I was able to juice it a little and with the preamp dialed down and the master up a bit it did indeed have the poweramp "push" that I like in a Marshall. Like I said, also had one of the better low-watt sounds I have heard from any amp too. Really didn't lose much of the character of the amp in the 5-watt mode at all.

I think a lot of the "modern" Marshalls are biasing the power tubes pretty cold and getting all of the distortion from the preamp...at least that's what my ears and fingers are telling me...and I think that's where the fizz is coming from. This one seems to have a bit hotter power stage and you can really feel it.

This head is on my short-list of next gear acquisitions.
 
No idea, but I like it. I got to try one out in an isolated room with a sealed 2x12 (Bogner IIRC) so I was able to juice it a little and with the preamp dialed down and the master up a bit it did indeed have the poweramp "push" that I like in a Marshall. Like I said, also had one of the better low-watt sounds I have heard from any amp too. Really didn't lose much of the character of the amp in the 5-watt mode at all.

I think a lot of the "modern" Marshalls are biasing the power tubes pretty cold and getting all of the distortion from the preamp...at least that's what my ears and fingers are telling me...and I think that's where the fizz is coming from. This one seems to have a bit hotter power stage and you can really feel it.

This head is on my short-list of next gear acquisitions.

Sounds awesome! You are giving me major A.S.S. (that sounds fuct-up don't it?) but we all know that means Amp Acquisition Syndrome! Maybe I should throw 'Tube' in there & make it T.A.S.S. just so people don't get the wrong idea? Hey, these schools are telling our kids it's all ok so wtf, maybe I shouldn't even care.?. But I digress, let's get off the a$$ & back to frik'n amps man!

So ya really got to play this baby huh? I almost got no problem taking your word on how good it really was because I could actually hear the quality & fidelity on the 2 videos I checked out so far. And you think it's loud enough for a crank'n R&R Band to get us guitar players out, up & over the rest of the band when we need to be? Dang I want to get my fingers on one of these real bad now!

Thanks gball. I got an a$$ full of T.A.S.S. for this 2525 Silver Jubilee now after hearing your in person report!
 
No idea, but I like it. I got to try one out in an isolated room with a sealed 2x12 (Bogner IIRC) so I was able to juice it a little and with the preamp dialed down and the master up a bit it did indeed have the poweramp "push" that I like in a Marshall. Like I said, also had one of the better low-watt sounds I have heard from any amp too. Really didn't lose much of the character of the amp in the 5-watt mode at all.

I think a lot of the "modern" Marshalls are biasing the power tubes pretty cold and getting all of the distortion from the preamp...at least that's what my ears and fingers are telling me...and I think that's where the fizz is coming from. This one seems to have a bit hotter power stage and you can really feel it.

This head is on my short-list of next gear acquisitions.

Here's a clip of my main (modified) DSL40C - 7025-WA preamp tubes, Electro-Harmonix EL-34's and a 90 watt Creamback - Nothing else. I don't hear a fizzy sound, but am I missing something???

 
Sounds awesome! You are giving me major A.S.S. (that sounds fuct-up don't it?) but we all know that means Amp Acquisition Syndrome! Maybe I should throw 'Tube' in there & make it T.A.S.S. just so people don't get the wrong idea? Hey, these schools are telling our kids it's all ok so wtf, maybe I shouldn't even care.?. But I digress, let's get off the a$$ & back to frik'n amps man!

So ya really got to play this baby huh? I almost got no problem taking your word on how good it really was because I could actually hear the quality & fidelity on the 2 videos I checked out so far. And you think it's loud enough for a crank'n R&R Band to get us guitar players out, up & over the rest of the band when we need to be? Dang I want to get my fingers on one of these real bad now!

Thanks gball. I got an a$$ full of T.A.S.S. for this 2525 Silver Jubilee now after hearing your in person report!

I didn't get a chance to play one with the band. It was at the shop in their isolation room. I wound it up pretty good but not to full-band volume. From what I heard though, I don't think volume would be an issue through the right cabinet. My #1 amp is a Mesa Mark 5:25, and through a 4x12 on the 25-watt setting that little amp has never had to see the far side of 4 on the master. It is shockingly loud for its power rating, and I think this little Marshall will do the deed just as well. I have been really getting into lower powered amps in recent years, there is just nothing like getting the power section really working and amps with more power/headroom don't do it for me any more.
 
Here's a clip of my main (modified) DSL40C - 7025-WA preamp tubes, Electro-Harmonix EL-34's and a 90 watt Creamback - Nothing else. I don't hear a fizzy sound, but am I missing something???


No, you're not missing anything. They did a killer job with the 40-watt version...it's not fizzy per-se but I do hear a characteristic upper midrange thing that all high-gain Marshalls have seemed to have in them since the JCM-900's came out (The DSL 15 is more accurately "fizzy" and some of the other Marshalls are too). It's something about how they are implementing the clipping diodes I think. I don't hear it in your clips, but when I play through one It is definitely there. I bet the Creamback is cutting down a bit of that too, the stock speaker wasn't great and the only 40's I have played had the stock one.

The biggest difference with the Jubilee's is that they have less gain and it sounds like the way they use the diodes for clipping is different (maybe they are in a different spot in the signal path?) so they are a bit smoother and you get the power section going quicker, and at least for me, the power tube distortion sounds nicer and the amp "feels" more responsive.
 
No, you're not missing anything. They did a killer job with the 40-watt version...it's not fizzy per-se but I do hear a characteristic upper midrange thing that all high-gain Marshalls have seemed to have in them since the JCM-900's came out (The DSL 15 is more accurately "fizzy" and some of the other Marshalls are too). It's something about how they are implementing the clipping diodes I think. I don't hear it in your clips, but when I play through one It is definitely there. I bet the Creamback is cutting down a bit of that too, the stock speaker wasn't great and the only 40's I have played had the stock one.

The biggest difference with the Jubilee's is that they have less gain and it sounds like the way they use the diodes for clipping is different (maybe they are in a different spot in the signal path?) so they are a bit smoother and you get the power section going quicker, and at least for me, the power tube distortion sounds nicer and the amp "feels" more responsive.

Are you sure the DSL amps use clipping diodes?
 
Are you sure the DSL amps use clipping diodes?

My understanding is that the 50 and 100 watt models do not, but that the 5, 15 and 40 do. I could be wrong as I have never personally opened one up to find out. They do respond and sound like amps that use them, and I don't have any problem with using them as the Jubilee's definitely have them. The difference I hear could come down to where in the circuit the diodes are or even if they don't have them (maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong) it's about the gain structure of the preamps that makes them so different.
 
No, you're not missing anything. They did a killer job with the 40-watt version...it's not fizzy per-se but I do hear a characteristic upper midrange thing that all high-gain Marshalls have seemed to have in them since the JCM-900's came out (The DSL 15 is more accurately "fizzy" and some of the other Marshalls are too). It's something about how they are implementing the clipping diodes I think. I don't hear it in your clips, but when I play through one It is definitely there. I bet the Creamback is cutting down a bit of that too, the stock speaker wasn't great and the only 40's I have played had the stock one.

The biggest difference with the Jubilee's is that they have less gain and it sounds like the way they use the diodes for clipping is different (maybe they are in a different spot in the signal path?) so they are a bit smoother and you get the power section going quicker, and at least for me, the power tube distortion sounds nicer and the amp "feels" more responsive.


Settings used on the video:

DSL40C 1.jpg DSL40C 3.jpg DSL40C 2.jpg
 
Robert I would have never guessed you had the mid and bass EQ'd like that. The amp sounds killer in your clip (and great playing , BTW). So you're at like 1 on the master - how loud is that in the room?
 
Here's a clip of my main (modified) DSL40C - 7025-WA preamp tubes, Electro-Harmonix EL-34's and a 90 watt Creamback - Nothing else. I don't hear a fizzy sound, but am I missing something???


You also have nothing in the video for audio comparison or point of natural / organic tube overdrive reference. I would suggest that if you had say that 25/25 Jubilee or better yet, an early 70's JMP or even an amp from the first several years pf the JMP Master Volume '76-'77 & could A/B the sound then not only would fidelity & frequency range be more apparent but so too would the type of driven gain / Overdrive. Things were done different back then & technology seldom walks backward.

Let's not forget, the first real Overdrive amps were Marshall Non-Master home made Master Volume & Pre-amp conversions that allowed the pre-amp section to be run hotter than a normal low volume setting would run it (OK, Fender, Mesa Boogie & other shop creations were being experimented on too). But the point is,.. The driving the pre-amp genie was out of the bottle!

I love the Randall Smith Mesa Boogie story of amp evolution & development too. Maybe you guys heard of Randall's prank that went Bad, or Good depending on how you look at it? He sneak surprised Barry Melton of Country Joe & the Fish by converting his tiny Fender Amp (Princeton?) into a hot rodded high gain Fender Bassman & barely wedging a 12" speaker in the cabinet! That was in 1967 & people actually loved it! Including Carlos Santana.

After Carlos Santana tries the little amp & was blown away by how it 'Boogies' Randall would soon be modifying lots of California Fender amps come 1968 until starting Mesa Boogie & building his own amplifiers in 1972. But even these early conversion Fenders were missing Randalls true crowning achievement in R&R amplifier breakthrough! That came when Randall was asked to design a pre-amp for a Crown DC-300 power amp & he developed subsequently came up with his revolutionary Cascaded Gain Stage pre-amp! I'm going to quote the story here because it just a great read that dramatically tells the tale with Randall's own insight & enthusiasm.

" I had no idea what it would take to make the Crowns work, so I started with my favorite Bassman circuit but figured I’d better cover the bases by adding another tube stage. To make it controllable, I also put in three level controls. We took it over to his studio and the first thing Lee did was plug the preamp straight into a 4x12 cab, which, of course, didn’t work. When I noticed this, we plugged it right with the preamp driving the Crown, which was now connected to the speakers. By this time everything was also turned up really high too, so Lee hits this big power chord and it felt like we got blown across the room! With the preamp set clean it was like the biggest Fender-style sound you’d ever heard, but you could also unleash a new realm of gain by turning up the first two controls and turning down the output level. Lee was just getting these hellacious crunch chords and endless sustain, and the thought occurred to me, “That’s what Carlos needs.” But instead of the Crowns, this preamp should be driving some 6L6s in the little 1x12 package I was pioneering at the time."


It then took Marshal almost 10 years to catch up to this extra tube cascading gain stage. Starting in 1976 Marshall finally started putting out their Master Volume series in 50 & 100 watts. FYI: interesting side note in the first 50 watt Master Volume Marshalls the design did not use a cascaded gain during the first half of 1976 but the 100 watter did. This makes those unmodified 50 watt amps rare birds.

But that is how it started, with a tubes characteristics of saturation, compression, clipping & it's added even order harmonic distortion fattening the sound. This was a very organic guitar tone with little to no fizz or bee buzz factor involved in the sound reproduction of creation gain, drive & saturated overdrive.

While on the SS vs Tube thang, here's a great visual of Tube clipping vs Solid State clipping & why I use the 'square wave' vs the 'compressed & rounded wave' descriptions for each.....

Symmetric_Clipping.jpg


Although your amp sounds surprisingly good for a newer mass produced Marshall, I do hear a fixed frequency fizz but it's really not too bad or excessive at all & actually seems to comes & go with how hard you are playing (diode clipping??) Fixed frequency fizz is exactly what it sounds like, an added square wave type of generated tone that remains fixed in the same frequency / tonal range & does not change or modulate as the notes & chords change. It's like the square wave fizz has it's own group of resonant frequencies that stay unchanged & static regardless of changes in guitar chords & notes. SS configurations (Diodes) are usually responsible for this because they just aren't as complex as a tube in generating overdrive / distortion.

Sometimes we get so used to this square wave tone built into our amps & our pedals that we almost tune it out & don't hear it! I know I used too! We are after all busy listening to so many things & playing our guitar at the same time etc etc.

This amp (DSL 40) does a much nicer job than what the JCM 900 de-volved into! Your amp sounds really decent. I could work with it!

Hey, check this Tube vs Solid State comparo!

tube_vs_modeling_amps.jpg

Is this a 'Her' vs 'your hand' analogy??
 
LOL!!!!

Good analogy!!!!!

Ok,

Lots of people ask me about a "honk" in my playing. I play with the point of the pick facing the bridge and I pluck really hard, so there is a "quack" or "honk" in my tone. I also avoid effects. I use no overdrive pedal and NO pedals whatsoever were used in the production of that video....It's just my 1987 squire-caster plugged straight into it via a 25 foot cable.

My normal live effects are a GE-7, a CS-3 a DD-3 and a NS-2 - all modded for pure signal/quiet operation by Modest Mike.
 
LOL!!!!

Good analogy!!!!!

Ok,

Lots of people ask me about a "honk" in my playing. I play with the point of the pick facing the bridge and I pluck really hard, so there is a "quack" or "honk" in my tone. I also avoid effects. I use no overdrive pedal and NO pedals whatsoever were used in the production of that video....It's just my 1987 squire-caster plugged straight into it via a 25 foot cable.

My normal live effects are a GE-7, a CS-3 a DD-3 and a NS-2 - all modded for pure signal/quiet operation by Modest Mike.

Why 25 ft cable? There are lots of reason to minimize chord length that I think someone as particular like yourself would have embraced by now.
 
Why 25 ft cable? There are lots of reason to minimize chord length that I think someone as particular like yourself would have embraced by now.

Adding capacitence. I guess because I don't use a wireless I have always used long cables. When I use a short cable, I don't like the tone.
 
Back
Top