debug hum er rations

[eSGEe]

USed EH Humdebugger in route to me --- fellow RIGHT HERE in FLO-ri-DUH!

should be able to comprise a foolish fools essay if not a complete review by the weekend.......

I am thinking a TRUE comp would be

Here is an unshielded guitar that hums---- here is how it sounds with the Bugger mugger
HERE is the same guitar (after hours of cussing--throwing of tools and breaking of parts-- and shielding) and how it sounds through the same amp and settings ---

back to back so to speak --- bugger VS Copper........

inquiring minds (and idiots like me) want to know -----

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Hahahahaha! Sounds like fun!
But I gotsta say....I was surprised when you shielded a humbucker equipped guitar...that’s a bummer.
I honestly thought you were shielding a single coil axe. (Like your Junior, or a bass, or something)

 

[eSGEe]

well to be fari they were MINI hums (which SHOULD imply LESS hum right?!?!?!) -- NOT -- it was quiet enough with the volume on 10 -- but roll the gutiar volume down and the HUM increased--and the sound of the guitar decreased ---

its "all better now" ---but I am still HUMbugger curious

 

[Thatbastarddon]

it was quiet enough with the volume on 10 -- but roll the gutiar volume down and the HUM increased--and the sound of the guitar decreased ---

This sounds suspicious to me...with my single coils, the hum level decreases with the volume knob- directly in line with the volume output of the guitar.
This makes me wonder if you actually had a ground issue that was resolved, somehow, while you were shielding.

 

[eSGEe]

welp then I have the SAME ground issue on:
my 2015 Les Paul Jr.
and a Squire P bass
and a Squire Jagmaster
2017 Squire PRECISION 51
and a Warwick Corvette
oh and an 80s Peavey Patriot......I think thats it-----
..........
OH and the Gibson EBO_"P" from 1962

I swapped out guitar cords--- (several times) moved amps around--- it was and is constant on all the above (and was IDENTICAL in function on the SG) -- prior to shielding --- now after shielding on the SG its 100% gone....

now
Jackson Adrian Smith
Fender Strat
Les Paul Recording....
Music Man SUB
etc etc
etc
dont react that way

I find it ODD all those would have the same ground issue....

 

[Thatbastarddon]

welp then I have the SAME ground issue on:
my 2015 Les Paul Jr.
and a Squire P bass
and a Squire Jagmaster
2017 Squire PRECISION 51
and a Warwick Corvette
oh and an 80s Peavey Patriot......I think thats it-----
..........
OH and the Gibson EBO_"P" from 1962

I swapped out guitar cords--- (several times) moved amps around--- it was and is constant on all the above (and was IDENTICAL in function on the SG) -- prior to shielding --- now after shielding on the SG its 100% gone....

now
Jackson Adrian Smith
Fender Strat
Les Paul Recording....
Music Man SUB
etc etc
etc
dont react that way

I find it ODD all those would have the same ground issue....

Perhaps I misunderstood you....the hum “increases” with the volume turned down on the guitars/basses?
Turn down the volume knob, and the hum gets louder?
I’m honestly asking, and (for once in my life) not being a wise a$$.
Because when I turn the volume down on any of my guitars, everything gets quieter.
That’s the only reason I speculated, at all.

 

[eSGEe]

yep -- NOTICEABLE hum "spike" from about VOL level 8 it doesnt get LOUDER as the vol level decreases -- but the guitar volume does decrease--until 1 or 0 then it ALL goes quiet--

damndest thing I agree-- and if it was CONSTANT -- Id say its the AMP -- or the computer screen or --- or --
but its not its ONLY certain gutiars but it is CONSITENT on them ............till I shield them apparently because now the SG which was one of the BIGGEST culprits-- is dead quiet

ALSO -- for the record its the HUM that occurs with NO fingers touching strings or guitar metal bits---

on 10 average or expected levels---hum 60 cycle noise etc. -- turn volume knob down to 8.5 HUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMM to the point of if your in a chord change and let you RIGHT hand NOT touch the strings its like WOW that hum is stupid loud!!!

??

 

[Inspector #20]

Hahahahaha! Sounds like fun!
But I gotsta say....I was surprised when you shielded a humbucker equipped guitar...that’s a bummer.
I honestly thought you were shielding a single coil axe. (Like your Junior, or a bass, or something)

The humbuckers quite often hum worse than a single coil...dual coils...two antennas for interference.

 

[Inspector #20]

well to be fari they were MINI hums (which SHOULD imply LESS hum right?!?!?!) -- NOT -- it was quiet enough with the volume on 10 -- but roll the gutiar volume down and the HUM increased--and the sound of the guitar decreased ---

its "all better now" ---but I am still HUMbugger curious

I experience this quite often, exactly as Adrian describes. Copper shield the guitar and its gone.

I can also make brand new Gibson's do it in Guitar Sinner.

I have extensively investigated this phenomena, checking every ground connection for resistance and continuity. There were no grounding issues.

I recently shielded a documented 57 Gibson Les Paul because of this exact behavior. The guitar was so valuable that I had to up the homeowner's policy coverage before accepting the job.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

yep -- NOTICEABLE hum "spike" from about VOL level 8 it doesnt get LOUDER as the vol level decreases -- but the guitar volume does decrease--until 1 or 0 then it ALL goes quiet--

damndest thing I agree-- and if it was CONSTANT -- Id say its the AMP -- or the computer screen or --- or --
but its not its ONLY certain gutiars but it is CONSITENT on them ............till I shield them apparently because now the SG which was one of the BIGGEST culprits-- is dead quiet

ALSO -- for the record its the HUM that occurs with NO fingers touching strings or guitar metal bits---

on 10 average or expected levels---hum 60 cycle noise etc. -- turn volume knob down to 8.5 HUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMM to the point of if your in a chord change and let you RIGHT hand NOT touch the strings its like WOW that hum is stupid loud!!!

??

Not to post my own crap test again, but it’s an example that I have handy.
During the first 4 seconds of this clip, I’m turning the bridge pickup knob from 0 to 10...fairly slow and smooth. I did no fading in the recording, anywhere, with anything other than the guitar volume. No spikes...and no spikes when I tried earlier this evening.

https://soundcloud.com/id%3Duser-876355516%252Fhum-debugger-test-wav%3Btrack_id%3D660256742

That’s why I was suspicious. But hey, I’m not there to try for myself.

 

[eSGEe]

Oh I understand your suspicion -- IMAGINE MINE -- I have a ROOM full of guitars -- some do it -- some dont---the "WHY" -- and how to LOGICALLY -- affordably -- and most importantly NOT HAVE TO QUIT MY JOB -- to make time TO FIX them all was a constant bother--
the SG in question went UNPLAYED for many moons (as do some of the other BIGGER violators) ----I even contemplated selling off all the ones that did it as "no good" -- or " I DONT want to DEAL with it"s
the HErndon Shielding method however has saved them from that fate ---possibly--
I want to (in the interest of science) also give a comparo with the hum debugger ---

we shall see what happens---

 

[Thatbastarddon]

That shielding, with conductive copper tape, not only shields RF....it also provides a larger ground plane. Unless, of course, you are insulating/decoupling all the pots etc. Like the way you insulated/decoupled the circuit board itself....you’d have to tape up the pot stems as they pass through the shield etc.

 

[eSGEe]

 

[eSGEe]

noise bad
shield good



Im o.k. with that (im rather a simpleton really)

-- I will do further testing when the humdebugger mugger trucker gets here..... then we can discus your shaft taping fetish (you kinky devil you)
---or maybe we should just let that be????

 

[Inspector #20]

Not to post my own crap test again, but it’s an example that I have handy.
During the first 4 seconds of this clip, I’m turning the bridge pickup knob from 0 to 10...fairly slow and smooth. I did no fading in the recording, anywhere, with anything other than the guitar volume. No spikes...and no spikes when I tried earlier this evening.

https://soundcloud.com/id%3Duser-876355516%252Fhum-debugger-test-wav%3Btrack_id%3D660256742

That’s why I was suspicious. But hey, I’m not there to try for myself.

I have no doubt you are posting a totally legitimate condition...

 

[Inspector #20]

That shielding, with conductive copper tape, not only shields RF....it also provides a larger ground plane. Unless, of course, you are insulating/decoupling all the pots etc. Like the way you insulated/decoupled the circuit board itself....you’d have to tape up the pot stems as they pass through the shield etc.

I ensure the tape folds into the hole so the pot shanks are grounded too....there are grounded lugs on the back of the PCB that contact the copper too.

I add strips of Scotch 33+ electrical tape to all "hots" on the back.of the PCB.

 

[Inspector #20]

Oh I understand your suspicion -- IMAGINE MINE -- I have a ROOM full of guitars -- some do it -- some dont---the "WHY" -- and how to LOGICALLY -- affordably -- and most importantly NOT HAVE TO QUIT MY JOB -- to make time TO FIX them all was a constant bother--
the SG in question went UNPLAYED for many moons (as do some of the other BIGGER violators) ----I even contemplated selling off all the ones that did it as "no good" -- or " I DONT want to DEAL with it"s
the HErndon Shielding method however has saved them from that fate ---possibly--
I want to (in the interest of science) also give a comparo with the hum debugger ---

we shall see what happens---

I eagerly await your test results!

 

[Thatbastarddon]

I have no doubt you are posting a totally legitimate condition...

I’m posting an example of normal volume knob behavior, in an electric guitar circuit, using a single coil guitar to provide an example of the relative level of hum increasing/decreasing in intensity directly in line with the volume level. The entirety of the above clip is recorded at a static signal level(fairly hot actually).
The audible fade in during the first four seconds was provided by the guitars volume control. There were no spikes in hum level...there was no sudden onset of loud hum when I hit 2 on the knob(it certainly didn’t take 4 seconds for me to gently roll to 2 on the volume knob).

 

[Thatbastarddon]

I ensure the tape folds into the hole so the pot shanks are grounded too....there are grounded lugs on the back of the PCB that contact the copper too.

I add strips of Scotch 33+ electrical tape to all "hots" on the back.of the PCB.

Most people don’t decouple the shield from the ground plane. They insulate any “hots”(like the back of the Gibson circuit boards).
Exactly what I was saying here:

That shielding, with conductive copper tape, not only shields RF....it also provides a larger ground plane. Unless, of course, you are insulating/decoupling all the pots etc. Like the way you insulated/decoupled the circuit board itself....you’d have to tape up the pot stems as they pass through the shield etc.

 

[Inspector #20]

I’m posting an example of normal volume knob behavior, in an electric guitar circuit, using a single coil guitar to provide an example of the relative level of hum increasing/decreasing in intensity directly in line with the volume level. The entirety of the above clip is recorded at a static signal level(fairly hot actually).
The audible fade in during the first four seconds was provided by the guitars volume control. There were no spikes in hum level...there was no sudden onset of loud hum when I hit 2 on the knob(it certainly didn’t take 4 seconds for me to gently roll to 2 on the volume knob).

Understood completely.

I am always busy with repairs, but especially shielding...for example...and I hope Adrian will chime in here...the 57 Gibson Les Paul...every ground was checked and verified before work began.

At '10' on the volume knob, the guitar was reasonably quiet - a faint hum was present - but it was no worse than a Fender single coil, but very prevalent.

If I rolled the volume off to '8,' the hum increased in volume and intensity and increased as the volume decreased. As I passed '4' on the knob, I could pick up two way radio transmissions from nearby Cal-State University.

I carefully extracted the harness, shielded the control cavity and cover, shielded all 4 sides of the selector switch cable rout, the jack tunnel, switch cavity and cover plus pickup routs.

When I reassembled it - as always - dead quiet at all volume knob positions