Conversion disorder in Guitarists.

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Biddlin

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Conversion disorder is a mental condition in which a person has blindness, paralysis, or other nervous system (neurologic) symptoms that cannot be explained by medical evaluation
Early last year I did a review of the Fender Stratocaster Elite, which I think is a good piece of design and the one I played was a solid, professional's instrument. I noticed a few days later someone on a fanboi site posting "Dead spot at 11th and 14 fret on Elite." followed by the usual flood of agreement and made up ailments from members who don't own and have never played one. I didn't take much notice, other than wondering if the unhappy owner had tried seeing his tech or adjusting the trussrod, but I try not to get involved in these threads anymore. Then after lunch today, my neighbor, Luther, came by, with the very Strat that I had reviewed and set up for him almost a year ago.
" I think it's got that neck thing, man."
" What neck thing would that be?"
" You know the dead notes. Plug it in and listen to it."
" Have you changed the strings since the last time you were here?"
" Sure, brah, but I don't think it's the strings."
" OK man, let's see."
I tuned it up, plugged into a Fender Mustang on a clean model, said, " OK, raise your hand when I hit the dead spots." and played a dozen two octave scales, without a hand going up.
"I don't know, but yesterday it was definitely doing what all the guys post about."
" Oh dear, I think I know the problem. Have you recently self diagnosed a gluten allergy?"
" Well....yeah, but I don't see what that has to do with it."
" Bro, you're gluten deficient, it's making you tone deaf."
" You're sh*ttin' me, right?"
" I saw it on an internet guitar forum, dude, lots of guys turned out to have the same thing. The ones that went back to regular wheat products got better in a couple of days."
" Thanks Biddlin."
" No, brah, thank the internet."
 
Biddlin said:
Conversion disorder is a mental condition in which a person has blindness, paralysis, or other nervous system (neurologic) symptoms that cannot be explained by medical evaluation
Early last year I did a review of the Fender Stratocaster Elite, which I think is a good piece of design and the one I played was a solid, professional's instrument. I noticed a few days later someone on a fanboi site posting "Dead spot at 11th and 14 fret on Elite." followed by the usual flood of agreement and made up ailments from members who don't own and have never played one. I didn't take much notice, other than wondering if the unhappy owner had tried seeing his tech or adjusting the trussrod, but I try not to get involved in these threads anymore. Then after lunch today, my neighbor, Luther, came by, with the very Strat that I had reviewed and set up for him almost a year ago.
" I think it's got that neck thing, man."
" What neck thing would that be?"
" You know the dead notes. Plug it in and listen to it."
" Have you changed the strings since the last time you were here?"
" Sure, brah, but I don't think it's the strings."
" OK man, let's see."
I tuned it up, plugged into a Fender Mustang on a clean model, said, " OK, raise your hand when I hit the dead spots." and played a dozen two octave scales, without a hand going up.
"I don't know, but yesterday it was definitely doing what all the guys post about."
" Oh dear, I think I know the problem. Have you recently self diagnosed a gluten allergy?"
" Well....yeah, but I don't see what that has to do with it."
" Bro, you're gluten deficient, it's making you tone deaf."
" You're sh*ttin' me, right?"
" I saw it on an internet guitar forum, dude, lots of guys turned out to have the same thing. The ones that went back to regular wheat products got better in a couple of days."
" Thanks Biddlin."
" No, brah, thank the internet."
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Oh my, I hope that story is imbelished, at least a little.
 
i think i know the thread you're talking about, and yeah, some opinions are really hard to dispel, wrong ones moreso, in my experience. Screw 'em. You can lead a horse to water....
 
I recall that the topic of dead notes seemed to really get under Tom Anderson's skin, so I dug up one of his old posts from the Tom Anderson forum reprinted below
----------------
this is a super complicated topic, so i will try to give a simple answer since i have a zillion other things to do today.

dead spots, are usually heard as notes that don't ring as long as others. they can vary greatly in their intensity. they can be caused by several things or combinations of things. in the end it's how well, or evenly the whole guitar vibrates together. they tend to be a note that will show in more than one octave or position on the neck, like and A on the G string second fret and the same note on the D string 7th fret. one position may be better or worse but it will usually show in both.

dead spots tend to be more obvious on a more lively guitar. deader guitars tend not to show off inconsistencies as well. mahogany necks seem to be more obvious about it than maple necks but maple necks are not immune. fender bases are the text book example of dead spots. most have some degree of dead spot on the G string around C or C#. people have fiddles around with them for decades adding different reinforcements strips to solve it. since every piece of wood is different, sometimes the spot just moves around or gets soft enough that it's not as noticeable.

i have an acoustic guitar, my favorite guitar in the world that is tonal bliss. it has a note on the A string that may as well not be there if you hope to get a whole note time out of it. but as a passing tone it's fine and certainly doesn't keep it from being my favorite guitar.

to those who have the time to sit around and time the decay of every note on their guitar, i say "you need to play more and fiddle less". guitars are wooden instruments and every note can not be exactly the same.

there is also another thing that could be happening when notes are dead. especially on the G string. the G is the lowest tension string on the guitar so it doesn't take nearly as much to be wrong to have a great effect on it. the bridge saddle could have a worn groove or in the case of a floyd, bad definition on where the string leaves the saddle. a dirty nut slot can also be a culprit in a dead sounding open string but that should mostly go away when the string is fretted.
 
Dead spots...
dead+spots+on+lawn+manny+reyes.jpg
 
All wooden guitars have dead spots, and generally the better they sustain the more obvious the dead spot will be. That is just a matter of contrast. If someone can come up with a construction material that is simultaneously very stiff and highly damped, then we can have guitars without dead spots. I haven't played a carbon fibre guitar, but I'm hopeful that they may be at least part of the answer.
 
What Don said.
There are also certain notes that ring louder on most guitars.
The materials the instrument is made of will have resonant frequencies.
 
Ghostwolf said:
i think i know the thread you're talking about, and yeah, some opinions are really hard to dispel, wrong ones moreso, in my experience. Screw 'em. You can lead a horse to water....
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the political thread in this forum. Just saying.
 
I've listened to more "expert" dissertations on guitars from people who can barely go "doink", let alone get the most out of an instrument.

Then again, I hear thoughtful opinions from great players that I disagree with. Funny thing is, sometimes they disagree with themselves as well, depending on when they're talking.

P.
 
Paul G. said:
sometimes they disagree with themselves as well, depending on when they're talking.
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From a tech's point of view, when you post or speak as an "expert," you try to be as specific as possible, so if I tell you wood doesn't matter, I try to specify electric guitar, maybe even arch-top hollow body, neck through, etc. just so we are talking about the same thing. Sometimes I change my opinion and try to own that change and explain why.
As a guitarist, I'm as romantic and susceptible to fairy dust as anyone else, especially when I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know why certain Gibson necks make it almost impossible for me to screw up. The notes are just in the right place.
DSCN1151.JPG
picture.php

I don't know why (or objectively, IF) two guitars made in the same plant a few days apart feel and sound different, to me( No one else can tell and in a dark room, I've proven to myself, I can't, either, until the lights come up..) I don't know where my original songs come from. They are largely born whole, usually while I'm walking or doing chores, the tune is frequently one I have used as a vamp or segue for years and ba-da-bing ba-da-boom, pop tune in da room! Sometimes they're pretty good, actually.
 
+1 on that.

I think the crux of this thread would be: Play more, fiddle less...

I've seen numerous posts by buyers of new Gibsons who complain bitterly about the dead spot at the
twelfth fret on the G string. Some swear they're sending their guitar back. I usually feel sorry for them.
I never worry about stuff like that. I just play around it.

Play it before you buy it, bro... and as soon as you get your new guitar in the house, plug it in and
play it some more. Then take it down and clean it, and check everything, and wipe down the fretboard, and
wiggle the truss rod around a little bit... to make sure it really works. take a sharpie and mark the
top dead center on the nut (simply as a starting point). check the neck for straightness, make small
adjustments. Lube the nut slots. Install new strings of your preferred gauge. Use the self locking method.
Set the bridge height just where the clattering stops. Lube the bridge saddles. Do a preliminary intonation
with the new strings and the bridge height just the way you like it.

Then play the hell out of it. Retune to pitch and play more. When you're hoarse and sore, and satisfied,
put it back in the case. Check the neck straightness and the intonation again tomorrow.
 
Gahr said:
I never realized there were dead spots on a guitar (unless it wasn't set up correctly). Now you've made me look for them on all my guitars, @Biddlin! I still can't find any, though...
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Mostly they're not "dead" dead spots, just certain notes don't ring out as clearly and may not sustain as well as others. If you really, really, really, really want to find them, you should…oh wait! Just forget about it and play something nice for the ladies -- they want to dance.

P.
 
I've mainly heard people complain about deadspots on the necks of Fender basses, but I wonder if they just haven't set their trussrods properly. I assume in some cases there might be a design flaw that means that when it is properly adjusted on one string it isn't necessarily the case on the other three, but given that the design has persisted for something like 65 years I am wondering why that would be the case if it's true.
 
Dave Sloven said:
I've mainly heard people complain about deadspots on the necks of Fender basses, but I wonder if they just haven't set their trussrods properly. I assume in some cases there might be a design flaw that means that when it is properly adjusted on one string it isn't necessarily the case on the other three, but given that the design has persisted for something like 65 years I am wondering why that would be the case if it's true.
Click to expand...

No it's nothing to do with adjustment - OK, you may be able to shift the dead spot to another note that way. No, it is built into the physics of coupled resonators, which is what you have with every stringed instrument. Every part of the guitar is a spring coupled to a mass. The one you want is the string, but neck, body, headstock are all also spring/mass combinations. When they couple together - which they inevitably do, energy is transferred between them. At the neck resonance, energy from the string goes into the neck, and the coupling is so tight that there is very little left to keep the sustain going.
 
It's true... many bass players are aware of it and simply play around it. Fender basses are notorious for the
persnickety dead spot at the 7th fret on the G string. Fender knows about it, and have for a long time.
Most of us just play around it and don't worry too much. When the women kick off their shoes and start
dancing, it doesn't seem so important. All that coupling together is what it's about.

If Fender could have, they would have done something about it decades ago.
The guitar making industry is deadly competitive... did you know?
It seems to be more so on some instruments, and less so on others, but it's there.
SGs seem to be prone to one on the G string at the 12th fret. We've seen a number
of posts on this subject over on ETSG.

Paul's right, it's not a real "dead' spot, because the instrument makes music, but if you didn't know better,
you might write a snarky review and publish it for all the world to see, saying "Thanks a LOT, Gibson!"
grumble grumble grumble... "four thousand dollars for an overblown Les Paul and it's got a dead spot..."
What's come of Gibson's quality control any more..."

Anyway, the thrust of Biddlin's post IMHO is that some of us worry too much and don't play enough.
He's preaching to the right crowd of sinners, I confess. I wanna testify! ...but maybe I'll go upstairs and
play some music instead. *grins
 
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