Why Don't High-Dollar Tube Amps Impress???

I'm really old school about my amps. I grew up using Vox AC-50's, then switched to Sunn, which is really an under rateted amp and the only amp that used 6550 (KT-88) tubes that I really liked, back in the day they were pretty expensive amps, remember I'm an old guy, so this was all in the late sixties, also used some Hiwatt's as well and still have one Hiwatt 4X12 cab that I still use. I eventually switched over to Marshall's ( you could but a new 100 watt stack back the then for under a grand.) The one thing they all had in common was, there was no master volume. I firmly believe that a BIG part of "that sound".

So now a days, I've owned a couple Soldano's Splawn (I have a sponsorship with them.) Had a Friedman that I wound up hating and now use Bogner's, an Uberschall that I traded back in (to death metal for me.) an XTC Classic a XTC 101B (that were both unfortunately stolen. and now have a 20th Anniversary Shiva with the EL-34 option.

Now with these amps I use an attenuator, and not the master volume, they become a whole different amp with that set up. The Bogner's are expensive as hell, but the build quality far surpasses the other high end amps I've had and to me, well worth the money. The only other two amp's I use are an old Vox AC-30 and a 1962 Fender Bassman, again, no master volume. All three are built like tanks and have been totally reliable all these years, with the exception of the AC-30 which tend's to get really hot, I understand the older AC-30's are like that as well.

I really don't have a problem shelling out the money that has that kind of quality.
 
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Robert Herndon said:
Of late, I've played through some very expensive tube amps. Some are studio owned and others are privately owned. This morning it was a colleague's Overdrive Special. It sounded OK, but it just didn't blow me away. The price tag certainly gives you bragging rights, but as far as it really delivering uncommon tones, even clean, it just wasn't super remarkable.

Hmmm...
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Swing by my shop in Long Beach and plug in to my Carol-Ann Satin...
 
Robert Herndon said:
I think your point has merit, but its a bit of a blanket statement and I never look that lightly into anything.
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Perhaps I did paint with a broad brush, to a point. But, I'm not looking at it quite so lightly as you may suppose.

The choice in music gear really comes down to what any individual likes and prefers. There is no "best" in any of this. There is only "best" for a particular individual's taste. What serves your needs and is met with satisfaction from your listeners is a function of what you like to play and they like to hear. It may also be, to some extent, a matter of you being more inspired by the sound your rig makes, which translates to your playing.

True. You play for a living. But, when pondering this, it occurred to me that others do, as well. There are other famous artists of sufficient means and status to sample every amp you've tried...and come away with a different opinion. And, you know what? That's okay! Others choose the other stuff because it produces the sounds they like. Bonamassa is famous for his preference toward vintage gear - Fenders...Marshalls...what have you. It works for him. It works for his sound. Brian Setzer uses almost exclusively Fender amps with a very few well-selected effects. Eric Johnson uses mostly vintage Marshalls and Fenders, but has also used HiWatt and Dumble. On the other hand, George Thorogood is not known for being too particular about amps. He's far more particular about using a Gibson ES-125TDC with dog-ear P-90s. Again...it all comes down to preference.

Now, have all these artists or others actually sampled other amps? I don't know. My point is, any one of these or a myriad of other players in any genre have the resources and ability to choose pretty much whatever they want. But, for whatever reason they play what they play and their audiences like the sound.

In the end, some need or want a lot of features. Others don't. For me, I insist on a two-channel amp with an effects loop. That's all I really need for features. Though, I would also prefer a separate EQ for each channel. I don't want built in effects; I want to select my own. The rest comes down to the sound. But that's just me. I know what works for me and it's fine if it isn't what someone else needs or wants.

You've embarked on your own tonal journey and arrived at a different location than some others. That's okay. You really don't need to justify your decision. If some of the ribbing you've gotten from some of us (me included) has made you feel a little defensive, then you have my apology. I certainly don't want to make you feel uncomfortable. If it makes you feel any better...I've gigged with a Line 6 before, too. But, mine wasn't even an amp. It's just the, now obsolete, Pod X3 Live...run straight to the PA and not using any cabinet or amp!
 
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smitty_p said:
What serves your needs and is met with satisfaction from your listeners is a function of what you like to play and they like to hear. It may also be, to some extent, a matter of you being more inspired by the sound your rig makes, which translates to your playing.
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smitty_p said:
True. You play for a living. But, when pondering this, it occurred to me that others do, as well. There are other famous artists of sufficient means and status to sample every amp you've tried...and come away with a different opinion. And, you know what? That's okay!
Click to expand...

smitty_p said:
In the end, some need or want a lot of features. Others don't. For me, I insist on a two-channel amp with an effects loop. That's all I really need for features. Though, I would also prefer a separate EQ for each channel. I don't want built in effects; I want to select my own. The rest comes down to the sound. But that's just me. I know what works for me and it's fine if it isn't what someone else needs or wants.

You've embarked on your own tonal journey and arrived at a different location than some others.
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I likely will be re-stating a point I made in other similar topics of why one aspect in the musical equation solves the problem while other answers don't do it for you yet there seems to be different answers that are the right answer for others.
That brings me to that subjective nature of music. The metal head won't necessarily enjoy Joni Mitchell or Sonny and Cher or even classical music. But if you stretch a genre far enough, one can see how valuable a good background in classical music could be for the heavy metal and shredder type players. So, to do my best to wrap up my thoughts on this, I will boil it down to just like my job of being a carpenter or how a famous sculptor might go about their business. There are many many good tools we have to make a cabinet, install windows, chop down a tree, carve a rock, cast a statue in bronze etc. It should be obvious that in all of these to the lay person it should be obvious that one would presume a simple hammer would be necessary. Yet, I would venture to say there are many variations of hammer. My framing hammer would not be a good tool for an artisan for striking gouges and chisels for highly decorative trim type cabinetry, and similarly would not be the same type a sculptor would use for his work. So, basically one must choose the tool ( amps in this case) that best fits the use they intend it for and how it works best for the person using it. It boils down to the job at hand and what each person decides will do that job best given their parameters and tastes.
 
I was also going to say I also heard good things about this amp. Oh and it is Solid State too.

Roland JC120. Supposed to be loud and also have incredible cleans. But since Robert is aiming for good amp for metal, I would guess it might not fit the bill.
But then again, maybe with pedals and his ear/guitars it might. Here is the JC 40 version


 
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I owned a 1973 Traynor YVM-1 for a while. It is a 50W PA head with 4 inputs and it sounded absolutely glorious for guitar with 2 or more inputs jumpered. It was just WAY too much amp for me and I sold it to buy my 18W Trinity.

th.jpg
 
smitty_p said:
Perhaps I did paint with a broad brush, to a point. But, I'm not looking at it quite so lightly as you may suppose.

The choice in music gear really comes down to what any individual likes and prefers. There is no "best" in any of this. There is only "best" for a particular individual's taste. What serves your needs and is met with satisfaction from your listeners is a function of what you like to play and they like to hear. It may also be, to some extent, a matter of you being more inspired by the sound your rig makes, which translates to your playing.

True. You play for a living. But, when pondering this, it occurred to me that others do, as well. There are other famous artists of sufficient means and status to sample every amp you've tried...and come away with a different opinion. And, you know what? That's okay! Others choose the other stuff because it produces the sounds they like. Bonamassa is famous for his preference toward vintage gear - Fenders...Marshalls...what have you. It works for him. It works for his sound. Brian Setzer uses almost exclusively Fender amps with a very few well-selected effects. Eric Johnson uses mostly vintage Marshalls and Fenders, but has also used HiWatt and Dumble. On the other hand, George Thorogood is not known for being too particular about amps. He's far more particular about using a Gibson ES-125TDC with dog-ear P-90s. Again...it all comes down to preference.

Now, have all these artists or others actually sampled other amps? I don't know. My point is, any one of these or a myriad of other players in any genre have the resources and ability to choose pretty much whatever they want. But, for whatever reason they play what they play and their audiences like the sound.

In the end, some need or want a lot of features. Others don't. For me, I insist on a two-channel amp with an effects loop. That's all I really need for features. Though, I would also prefer a separate EQ for each channel. I don't want built in effects; I want to select my own. The rest comes down to the sound. But that's just me. I know what works for me and it's fine if it isn't what someone else needs or wants.

You've embarked on your own tonal journey and arrived at a different location than some others. That's okay. You really don't need to justify your decision. If some of the ribbing you've gotten from some of us (me included) has made you feel a little defensive, then you have my apology. I certainly don't want to make you feel uncomfortable. If it makes you feel any better...I've gigged with a Line 6 before, too. But, mine wasn't even an amp. It's just the, now obsolete, Pod X3 Live...run straight to the PA and not using any cabinet or amp!
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Hey! All is well here, my friend. I see your points and they are well taken to be certain.

I was willing to spend more on a setup, but just felt really lost when I didn't hear what I was expecting for the price...and then, there's that side of me where everything has to make sense logistically, and at times, those worlds collide.

Its kinda like my clunker 1987 Squirecaster. It's cheap. It's ugly, but it's just so useful...
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
I was also going to say I also heard good things about this amp. Oh and it is Solid State too.

Roland JC120. Supposed to be loud and also have incredible cleans. But since Robert is aiming for good amp for metal, I would guess it might not fit the bill.
But then again, maybe with pedals and his ear/guitars it might. Here is the JC 40 version


Click to expand...

Roland keyboard amps are in nearly every studio it seems. I have seen many guitarists playing through them. Some say the clean tones from a Roland actually rival the Twin Reverb.

My Mom still has two or three huge Peavey's that were given to her by Mr. Peavey himself. I think one is an acoustic amp and the others are keyboard amps. Good stuff!!!
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
I likely will be re-stating a point I made in other similar topics of why one aspect in the musical equation solves the problem while other answers don't do it for you yet there seems to be different answers that are the right answer for others.
That brings me to that subjective nature of music. The metal head won't necessarily enjoy Joni Mitchell or Sonny and Cher or even classical music. But if you stretch a genre far enough, one can see how valuable a good background in classical music could be for the heavy metal and shredder type players. So, to do my best to wrap up my thoughts on this, I will boil it down to just like my job of being a carpenter or how a famous sculptor might go about their business. There are many many good tools we have to make a cabinet, install windows, chop down a tree, carve a rock, cast a statue in bronze etc. It should be obvious that in all of these to the lay person it should be obvious that one would presume a simple hammer would be necessary. Yet, I would venture to say there are many variations of hammer. My framing hammer would not be a good tool for an artisan for striking gouges and chisels for highly decorative trim type cabinetry, and similarly would not be the same type a sculptor would use for his work. So, basically one must choose the tool ( amps in this case) that best fits the use they intend it for and how it works best for the person using it. It boils down to the job at hand and what each person decides will do that job best given their parameters and tastes.
Click to expand...

Musically, I'm a Musical Rain Man. I don't understand theory. I'm not an educated musician and I'm not super technical. I routinely play with guys worlds better than me, so I might be the guy trying to drive finishing nails with a spirit level, in the musical sense anyways.

My strengths have always been being a team player, having a good ear and being able to jump into something at the last minute and, quite often, kinda bringing everyone together.

I tend to gravitate towards metal and try to stay there. I have turned down some very lucrative business opportunities in other genres, and I know this is very limiting to some extent.

I guess my old 45 watt Marshall head and vintage upright cabinet (I think it was a 2034 IIRC) would be considered - by some - to be a real desirable piece, but it was very Spartan. I will tell you that I was completely shocked at the price I was offered when I sold it in 2015.

I do find that having built in delay and noise gate to be real desirable, but mostly because it eliminates pedals and not because of the quality of a built-in effect, so again, I see it more a function of logistics and economy of movement than a tonal advantage.

I keep threatening to attend Musician's Institute in Los Angeles and get an education. ..
 
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