What Is He Thinking??? (NGD)

By the way, no Gibson flame intended. Just curious. I love my Gibson Les Paul and my Les Paul replicas, but having to tune between every song outdoors - and having the tuning change enough to hear it during a song - is just more work than I want to be faced with...
 
Robert Herndon said:
@gball I will post up links later on when I get back home.

Here's one forum discussion that I still had open where a new Les Paul goes both sharp and flat:

Les Paul Studio - will not stay in Tune

I have a 2009 Les Paul Studio with Gold Hardware that will not stay in tune, and is very hard to get into tune. I just put new strings on it, gibson vintage reissue and it is a little better. But just sitting around the 1st three strings go shart, 4 and 5 go flat and 6 does both. No pattern that ...
forum.gibson.com
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This is a noob that needs a setup, which is basically what every post I see on the internet about supposed Gibson tuning problems seems to resolve out to (setup). I still believe any tuning issues are 90% setup, 10% environmental changes. Sure you may have to let a guitar adjust to the heat of direct sunlight but if its set up properly it will settle in quickly. My own anecdotal experience, but I used to play a lot of shows outside and I never ran into this problem you describe.

Also anecdotally, if there is any change at all, my guitars always go sharp in storage but flat when I play them, if anything can be read into that, which I don't think it can because once I correct the tuning it will stay there for as many hours as I play the guitar. And I usually have to tweak the truss rod twice a year when the seasons change, but that's not a flaw in the guitar, it's literally what the truss rod is for.

Robert Herndon said:
@gball

In an interview video that I posted earlier, Smith said the reason he started looking at Jackson's was because he "couldn't keep his Les Paul in tune."
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I watched it and am choosing to take it with the proverbial grain of salt:

A. The man is trying to sell guitars
B. It hasn't stopped him from playing his Deluxe or his SG every. single. night. I gotta believe if the problem was that bad he would just stop using the Gibsons altogether. I mean, he's got an endorsement deal and in theory they are making the guitar of his dreams, right? Right?
C. It would be disingenuous to start comparing guitars with a locking Floyd to traditional tuners. Of course the locking system will win every time.



Anyway, I am in no way trying to tell you the problem you have is not real. I just don't believe it has anything to do with the equipment. I do hope you find a positive resolution.
 
gball said:
This is a noob that needs a setup, which is basically what every post I see on the internet about supposed Gibson tuning problems seems to resolve out to (setup). I still believe any tuning issues are 90% setup, 10% environmental changes. Sure you may have to let a guitar adjust to the heat of direct sunlight but if its set up properly it will settle in quickly. My own anecdotal experience, but I used to play a lot of shows outside and I never ran into this problem you describe.

Also anecdotally, if there is any change at all, my guitars always go sharp in storage but flat when I play them, if anything can be read into that, which I don't think it can because once I correct the tuning it will stay there for as many hours as I play the guitar. And I usually have to tweak the truss rod twice a year when the seasons change, but that's not a flaw in the guitar, it's literally what the truss rod is for.
Click to expand...

Mitch Pearrow SJMP said:
All of my Gibson’s go sharp in cooler temps, and they go flat in the warmer days of summer, even if stored in their cases, all of my strats stay pretty much where they belong but as jtcnj says sometimes they need to be reset after a couple of days sitting in the rack stand, but stable after tuning!
Cheers
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This is what i experience. It's also what the studio guys I work with describe....

The trouble is, even when the temps are up, they won't stay in tune, so it's not that they don't acclimate to the heat. It's cool...they are great studio guitars. They are literally the tone that I love and you hear the paul's on all of my recordings, but I won't be taking them to any more outdoor shows. period.

I'm taking the 1987 Squire to Saturday's outdoor performance.../
 
What a tough subject !! Set necks do move...go from home to studio constantly...soon as i get there...out of cases comes all of em.

I don't see a lot of movement once set in(tuning) & acclimated...outside gigs are pretty hard on tuning in comparison..but...my fenders..Ibby's...they do hold tune a hair better. am ok with it,,,being a primarily Gibson player. Live, any chance i get..quick tune....almost obsessively...that habit has carried over in general. even at home....being so into music.. will just check ..it is worth it. We don't have the luxury of a tech handing us a guitar in tune every other song....guess..we gotta work it !!

Also..outside gigs...they are so dif...hope ya get a good stage mix.....humidity changes do move my Gibson's...not much...but i do a set up constantly as part of daily life..at home..they do not move much at all.

A good set up takes time,,,small truss rod adjustments play a few weeks move a hair..let that neck come around in due time

My 1978 The Paul..does not move at all or 14 SGJ....I tend to look for the heaviest guitars i can find..with the most natural almost acoustic sound projection...not all fit that bill on the hunt....
 
BFT Gibson said:
What a tough subject !! Set necks do move...go from home to studio constantly...soon as i get there...out of cases comes all of em.

I don't see a lot of movement once set in(tuning) & acclimated...outside gigs are pretty hard on tuning in comparison..but...my fenders..Ibby's...they do hold tune a hair better. am ok with it,,,being a primarily Gibson player. Live, any chance i get..quick tune....almost obsessively...that habit has carried over in general. even at home....being so into music.. will just check ..it is worth it. We don't have the luxury of a tech handing us a guitar in tune every other song....guess..we gotta work it !!

Also..outside gigs...they are so dif...hope ya get a good stage mix.....humidity changes do move my Gibson's...not much...but i do a set up constantly as part of daily life..at home..they do not move much at all.

A good set up takes time,,,small truss rod adjustments play a few weeks move a hair..let that neck come around in due time

My 1978 The Paul..does not move at all or 14 SGJ....I tend to look for the heaviest guitars i can find..with the most natural almost acoustic sound projection...not all fit that bill on the hunt....
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You are blessed!!!

I use a Korg Pitchblack tuner that mutes my signal. I instinctively check tuning between songs too, but my shitty Fender is always spot-on...

As we are playing more and more outdoor venues, I need to make a permanent change.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't tightening the truss rod on a Gibby increase forward bow? If this is the case the wood would expand more than the rod causing the tuning to go flat. I can attest that even just this week I went from open windows to air conditioning and have been chasing the tuning for a day. Temperature is about 3 degrees cooler where I keep the boys and a lot less humidity. They have been going sharp during the transition.
 
Cadorman said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't tightening the truss rod on a Gibby increase forward bow? If this is the case the wood would expand more than the rod causing the tuning to go flat. I can attest that even just this week I went from open windows to air conditioning and have been chasing the tuning for a day. Temperature is about 3 degrees cooler where I keep the boys and a lot less humidity. They have been going sharp during the transition.
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That's what I think!!!!
 
I performed an experiment this morning. I tuned the real 2016 Gibson Les Paul, my Von Herndon double neck and my 1987 Squirecaster all with my Korg Pitchblack set to strobe, in my studio at 75°F.

I played them, did bends, tremolo dives then rechecked tuning - all guitars were dead-on.

I then took them outside and put them in their stands in direct sunlight for one hour. Current temp where I live is 96°F and 13% humidity.

I checked fretboard temps on all three guitars and recorded 132°F.

The 2016 Gibson Les Paul was flat by several cents. I retuned and played it unplugged. It went flat while playing and needed to be returned. A few more minutes of playing and it was still going flat.

I picked up the Squirecaster. Tuning was 1/2 of a green bar flat...not sure how many cents each bar is on a Korg Pitchblack. Played it, did bends, whammy bar dives and rechecked. Tuning was still on where it had been previously.

Picked up the double neck. Tuning was ever so slightly flat, but not enough to turn out the dual yellow arrows, which indicate which direction the tuning needs to go.

Played it aggressively and then rechecked tuning. No change.

Same string gauge, same installation methodology...
 
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Mahogany is definitely a bit more elastic than maple. I think the heat is allowing it to relax a bit and increasing the neck relief slightly.

Robert, assuming the doubleneck has mahogany necks, is it possible that the Les Paul is set up with a bit more neck relief than the double?

BTW, in reference to another post upthread, truss rods are there to offset string tension - tightening the nut increases back bow.
 
eclecticsynergy said:
Mahogany is definitely a bit more elastic than maple. I think the heat is allowing it to relax a bit and increasing the neck relief slightly.

Robert, assuming the doubleneck has mahogany necks, is it possible that the Les Paul is set up with a bit more neck relief than the double?

BTW, in reference to another post upthread, truss rods are there to offset string tension - tightening the nut increases back bow.
Click to expand...

All are setup up to .015" relief at the 12th.
 
Robert Herndon said:
@gball I will post up links later on when I get back home.

Here's a couple of just general forum discussions that I still had open where a Les Paul goes both sharp and flat:

Les Paul Studio - will not stay in Tune

I have a 2009 Les Paul Studio with Gold Hardware that will not stay in tune, and is very hard to get into tune. I just put new strings on it, gibson vintage reissue and it is a little better. But just sitting around the 1st three strings go shart, 4 and 5 go flat and 6 does both. No pattern that ...
forum.gibson.com

Les Paul Tuning Issues

I've had my Les Paul Standard for around 4 months now and I still have tuning issues with it. Tune it up at home, go up to the church take it out of the case and the thing has gone sharp. Retune, 10 minutes later it's flat. Makes me wonder if the Autotune system that they had on the 2015 models...
bluesguitarunleashed.com

In an interview video that I posted earlier, Smith said the reason he started looking at Jackson's was because he "couldn't keep his Les Paul in tune."

Now, maybe having to tune between every song is normal, but it's funny in a way that my 1987 Squire - under the same conditions - stayed in tune even using the stock unlocking tremolo.
Click to expand...
Robert Herndon said:
@gball I will post up links later on when I get back home.

Here's a couple of just general forum discussions that I still had open where a Les Paul goes both sharp and flat:

Les Paul Studio - will not stay in Tune

I have a 2009 Les Paul Studio with Gold Hardware that will not stay in tune, and is very hard to get into tune. I just put new strings on it, gibson vintage reissue and it is a little better. But just sitting around the 1st three strings go shart, 4 and 5 go flat and 6 does both. No pattern that ...
forum.gibson.com

Les Paul Tuning Issues

I've had my Les Paul Standard for around 4 months now and I still have tuning issues with it. Tune it up at home, go up to the church take it out of the case and the thing has gone sharp. Retune, 10 minutes later it's flat. Makes me wonder if the Autotune system that they had on the 2015 models...
bluesguitarunleashed.com

In an interview video that I posted earlier, Smith said the reason he started looking at Jackson's was because he "couldn't keep his Les Paul in tune."

Now, maybe having to tune between every song is normal, but it's funny in a way that my 1987 Squire - under the same conditions - stayed in tune even using the stock unlocking tremolo.
Click to expand...
I will add my unscientific reply, wood no matter it’s origin is going to do 2 things with the wether dry and hot shrinks, wet and or moist expands, this is why there is no stability in tuning on a hard tail bridge, example during the winter there is always a door that is sticky or harder to close, and in the summer it’s just fine!
Cheers
 
Cadorman said:
That is extremely low humidity. If you are 35-40% inside that is going to make a bigger difference than a 20 degree temperature change.
Click to expand...

We keep the A/C on, so I would venture our humidity in the house may be lower than outside...
Cadorman said:
That is extremely low humidity. If you are 35-40% inside that is going to make a bigger difference than a 20 degree temperature change.
Click to expand...

On the day of our September 7, 2019 outdoor/direct sunlight performance, the temperature was 97°F and 23% humidity.
 
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