Using just the amp's gain and the volume knob

[Sérgio]

So, I often wonder what's the best approach for getting the best tone out of my rig, particularly my amp.

I use a 40 watt Fender valve amp with a "12 speaker for most of what I do live.

Well, there are basically three ways to play classic rock n' roll and hard blues using overdrive/distortion:

a) using the amp's clean channel and overdriving/distorting it with pedals (which is basically what I've been doing so far)

b) using the amp's dirty channel with just a bit of gain, and "seasoning" everything with dirt pedals

c) using the amp's dirty channel, overdriven to the maximum desired amount of gain, and using the volume knob on the guitar to clean the sound as needed

(Of course, the other effects, like delay, wah, reverb, et al being added ad libitum with pedals if needed).


Does any of you do the "c" option?

I've been tempted to try it, since I took my black strat to a tech for a quick maintenance and he played it through a cranked up valve amp, cleaning up when needed just by lowering the volume on the guitar. The tone was KILLER and I felt that I'd make it even better through my own amp, which is way better.

P.S. if this thread fits better in another section of the forum, my apologies.

 

[DonP]

The c option is pretty good - you can manage pretty much your entire sound from the guitar. No need to touch the amp once you have set it. The only problem with this is that guitar tone dulls when you back off the volume control. A small bypass cap on the volume control will fix that, though.

 

[Tony M.]

Hi Sergio!
How are you?
Haven't seen you in ages.

I'm a clean channel and pedal guy.
but...

If I remember correctly you have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe?
I had one of those. It has an excellent sounding dirty channel
with a foot switchable "more drive" boost setting.
The clean channel is that beautiful Fender
6L6 power tube sound from the '60's.
It also has a great sounding Accutonics reverb.

I would plug the guitar right into amplifier
(unless there is a wah involved)and use the built
in dirt, boost and reverb, put a chorus and a delay
in the effects loop, and you're good to go.
Use the built in amplifier dirt and the
"more drive" for soloing.
If you use a wah, put it between the
guitar and the front of the amplifier.

Be well.

PS: Don't forget about the controls on the guitar.
They are very useful in this or any other application.

 

[Gahr]

I use option C with a little bit of B thrown in every now and then.

 

[Mitch Pearrow SJMP]

I am also going to have to say C.
With either the origin 50H.
Or the dsl40c’s.
And the only thing in front is the.
MXR. 10 band eq.
Have just been loving this set up
and have taken my joyo ultimate drive, off, SD1 off, and haven’t missed a beat.
Cheers Mitch

 

[TCE63]

Im am going with C.

When i run the SV20H at 6-7 on volume, i just have to turn the volume down a little bit on the guitar too make a great Rythm playing, in leads just turn the guitar up

 

[BFT Gibson]

When we record..my studio guy prefers we run tone from amp power..it does make a huge dif when you a/b compare. in a way, have a bunch of amps for a very specific sound. there is a reason the classics are used on recordings. They compress less as recording will always squash down, Going live..i set up my plexi 5 for chords-7 for break-dime for leads..a pedal or 2 for even out for guitar changes or the one rad bump needed for a certain situation. Over the years..all my amps & gear is all targeted at runnin at the level of the kick drum..we practice at same level as live..which is the recording level. Really..been setting to kick drum level since day 1..the PA was for the singer back then.It really makes for a constant sound with very minimal tweaking..take dif guitars with to break the amps at dif levels. Learning the guitar vol & tone knobs as part of an amp set right is the integral part of my sound.

 

[Sérgio]

Thanks for the replies so far, friends!

@Tony M. Always glad to see you too, man! Sometimes I don't post much but I'm always around.

Yes, my main gigging amp is a Hot Rod Deluxe, which has a real GREAT clean channel. I've been using solely that channel, with my pedals doing all the dirt and boosting.

Now, I spent this entire afternoon trying to tame is dirty channel, the guitars plugged rigth into the amp, no pedals whatsoever. I must say I'm a bit disappointed so far.

I got a nasty hiss that just wouldn't allow me to get a decent tone. The two strats were nearly unplayable, the American one being the worst (it has a slightly higher output than the other one), and the Rickenbacker being the least bad, though still hissing.

It's not the single coil hum, its a definite trebly hiss that rings on after each note. I even thought that it could be that my strats were poorly set up and that would be the fret buzz, but I don't get anything buzzing in the clean channel, no matter how I crank the volume.

I'll try again when I'm alone in the house, so I won't disturb anyone and this way maybe I can dial in the right settings.

 

[BFT Gibson]

Thanks for the replies so far, friends!

@Tony M. Always glad to see you too, man! Sometimes I don't post much but I'm always around.

Yes, my main gigging amp is a Hot Rod Deluxe, which has a real GREAT clean channel. I've been using solely that channel, with my pedals doing all the dirt and boosting.

Now, I spent this entire afternoon trying to tame is dirty channel, the guitars plugged rigth into the amp, no pedals whatsoever. I must say I'm a bit disappointed so far.

I got a nasty hiss that just wouldn't allow me to get a decent tone. The two strats were nearly unplayable, the American one being the worst (it has a slightly higher output than the other one), and the Rickenbacker being the least bad, though still hissing.

It's not the single coil hum, its a definite trebly hiss that rings on after each note. I even thought that it could be that my strats were poorly set up and that would be the fret buzz, but I don't get anything buzzing in the clean channel, no matter how I crank the volume.

I'll try again when I'm alone in the house, so I won't disturb anyone and this way maybe I can dial in the right settings.

the HRD's are great amps...most opt to use pedals into them..maybe its a modern take by fender..for some reason the clean channel just doesn't break like earlier models by just turning it up more. They went 2 channel to get the dirt there...i understand exactly what you mean when i had mine...you work it..struggle with it,,fight it..but when you explained your strat sound..i experienced the exact same thing..its a real tough amp to run like option 3. It's a fantastic -gig amp with pedals..cause it always delivers back to you what you put in from night to night. You can set your board up with your fav dirt & get it consistently. Where on option 3..depending on how the amp is acting that night..can be a wild & wooly night of looking over ya shoulder..like what is going on over there..ya sounded fine last night in practice !!

 

[SG John]

I'll go with "C" for the most part. I try to dial in "My Sound" with the guitar's neck pick on, with the volume at about 6. Once I'm happy with the amp/guitar sound like that, then I dial in the pedals. A distortion/drive pedal for a bit more girth, then an overdrive for solos. This also allows me to get more volume out of the guitar with a "natural" sound, or over the top with pedals. Dialing everything in with the neck pickup also gives me a nice honk out of the middle position or snarl out the bridge pickup.

 

[iblive]

My amp only has a volume knob. I feel so left out.

 

[RVA]

What about a 4th option - overdriving the clean channel for natural breakup? This is not too difficult with a master volume. I think amazing tones can be found like this

 

[Mitch Pearrow SJMP]

What about a 4th option - overdriving the clean channel for natural breakup? This is not too difficult with a master volume. I think amazing tones can be found like this

I also do this

 

[Inspector #20]

Hmmmmm....im not sure I do any of those things.

In this new band (we are a 6 piece now) i have a certain tone i have developed over time that i use 100% of the time. We are a hard rock band. The "cleanest" song we play is 'Rock Me' by Great White.

I'm just not into performing with a clean tone, and we avoid those selections, although I do sometimes play clean at home. People who hire us want a riot.

I use one amp - period - the 40 watt tube DSL40C. Practice amp or performance amp, one amp is all you need. For large venues or outdoor events, I add a 1985 Jackson 4x12 cabinet. I just recently scored a second DSL40C (in vintage regalia) through a sweet trade deal with a TTR chum.

I run over 60 feet of cable total and it's all Monprice balanced/shielded 4 conductor and the rig is quiet enough to record with. Best cables period. As good or better on a recording as Mogami and all those other boutique cables.

My guitar volume is always wide-open. I may roll off tone a bit - perhaps 7 or 8 - but that's about as far as guitar adjustments go. The bridge gets wimpy and then when volume is rolled off.

The tone is always the same. I dont really change anything but volume. Guys tell me about all these tweaks needed for this club or this type of flooring...and I'm like, Huh???

I'm no great guitar God, but I get more questions and comments on my tone now than when I was running a 2203 and 2034 cabinet

Gain is always about halfway to 1pm (Red channel Lead 1 tone shift in) and I use a TS-9 to boost the clean signal. A GE-7, CS-3, & CE-5 are integrated components of my tone and are never switched off. (Lynch and Faulkner are the originators of this technique AFAIK)

My tone sounds like it has more gain than it really has....but it has amazing clarity and I can alter my volume and gain with pick attack.

Amp volume is always at 2pm (about 7 on the dial) and we rehearse at stage volume. I use a Boss FV30L volume pedal in the FX loop so I can turn the amp down and still retain my tone.

It may sound complex, but it's really a simple rig. Takes me 10 minutes to setup. Even if I dont soundcheck, it doesn't matter because I know its gonna be right.

All the Les Paul's are setup exactly the same...same pickups, same strings, same action height, same strings. Instead of stopping the train for a tuning check, I switch guitars.

Worry free...Consistency...

Bones crushed while you listen...

Last performance settings visible in photo:

 

[Trident]

There’s that KEWL HAT

 

[Mitch Pearrow SJMP]

Hmmmmm....im not sure I do any of those things.

In this new band (we are a 6 piece now) i have a certain tone i have developed over time that i use 100% of the time. We are a hard rock band. The "cleanest" song we play is 'Rock Me' by Great White.

I'm just not into performing with a clean tone, and we avoid those selections, although I do sometimes play clean at home. People who hire us want a riot.

I use one amp - period - the 40 watt tube DSL40C. Practice amp or performance amp, one amp is all you need. For large venues or outdoor events, I add a 1985 Jackson 4x12 cabinet. I just recently scored a second DSL40C (in vintage regalia) through a sweet trade deal with a TTR chum.

I run over 60 feet of cable total and it's all Monprice balanced/shielded 4 conductor and the rig is quiet enough to record with. Best cables period. As good or better on a recording as Mogami and all those other boutique cables.

My guitar volume is always wide-open. I may roll off tone a bit - perhaps 7 or 8 - but that's about as far as guitar adjustments go. The bridge gets wimpy and then when volume is rolled off.

The tone is always the same. I dont really change anything but volume. Guys tell me about all these tweaks needed for this club or this type of flooring...and I'm like, Huh???

I'm no great guitar God, but I get more questions and comments on my tone now than when I was running a 2203 and 2034 cabinet

Gain is always about halfway to 1pm (Red channel Lead 1 tone shift in) and I use a TS-9 to boost the clean signal. A GE-7, CS-3, & CE-5 are integrated components of my tone and are never switched off. (Lynch and Faulkner are the originators of this technique AFAIK)

My tone sounds like it has more gain than it really has....but it has amazing clarity and I can alter my volume and gain with pick attack.

Amp volume is always at 2pm (about 7 on the dial) and we rehearse at stage volume. I use a Boss FV30L volume pedal in the FX loop so I can turn the amp down and still retain my tone.

It may sound complex, but it's really a simple rig. Takes me 10 minutes to setup. Even if I dont soundcheck, it doesn't matter because I know its gonna be right.

All the Les Paul's are setup exactly the same...same pickups, same strings, same action height, same strings. Instead of stopping the train for a tuning check, I switch guitars.

Worry free...Consistency...

Bones crushed while you listen...

Last performance settings visible in photo:

View attachment 27819

Your tone is ripping brother.
I tend to think that I have similar setup of tones in my garage minus the delay, and chorus, and tube screamer, but you have never heard my alternate, with the tone lab and green channels, you have heard my origin/ lead 100 mosfet tone, minus the mxr 10 band eq! I am in the same tone space that, you’re in

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I played thousands of sets in the late 70s/early 80s using just a channel switching Mesa Mk II. I set the regular channel for grit that I could roll back to clean, and the lead channel for chunk that I could roll back to crunch. So my core tone was pure amp. It helped that the Boogie has a separate bright switch for the lead channel.

Got a broad spectrum of drive tones & textures just using the volume knobs on my guitars. I was using various guitars for different flavors too, but the gain was all tube.

I already had an OD (Tube Screamer) in those days but almost never used it. For effects I really only ran chorus & delay.

It's also true that we were playing fairly loud on big stages; at today's stage levels I wouldn't be able to let the Mk II really sing without an attenuator.

 

[eSGEe]

MEEEEEESSSSSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! :dood::dood::dood::dood:

 

[Inspector #20]

Your tone is ripping brother.
I tend to think that I have similar setup of tones in my garage minus the delay, and chorus, and tube screamer, but you have never heard my alternate, with the tone lab and green channels, you have heard my origin/ lead 100 mosfet tone, minus the mxr 10 band eq! I am in the same tone space that, you’re in

For sure!!!!

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Yep.

Hmmmmm....im not sure I do any of those things.

In this new band (we are a 6 piece now) i have a certain tone i have developed over time that i use 100% of the time. We are a hard rock band. The "cleanest" song we play is 'Rock Me' by Great White.

I'm just not into performing with a clean tone, and we avoid those selections, although I do sometimes play clean at home. People who hire us want a riot.

I use one amp - period - the 40 watt tube DSL40C. Practice amp or performance amp, one amp is all you need. For large venues or outdoor events, I add a 1985 Jackson 4x12 cabinet. I just recently scored a second DSL40C (in vintage regalia) through a sweet trade deal with a TTR chum.

I run over 60 feet of cable total and it's all Monprice balanced/shielded 4 conductor and the rig is quiet enough to record with. Best cables period. As good or better on a recording as Mogami and all those other boutique cables.

My guitar volume is always wide-open. I may roll off tone a bit - perhaps 7 or 8 - but that's about as far as guitar adjustments go. The bridge gets wimpy and then when volume is rolled off.

The tone is always the same. I dont really change anything but volume. Guys tell me about all these tweaks needed for this club or this type of flooring...and I'm like, Huh???

I'm no great guitar God, but I get more questions and comments on my tone now than when I was running a 2203 and 2034 cabinet

Gain is always about halfway to 1pm (Red channel Lead 1 tone shift in) and I use a TS-9 to boost the clean signal. A GE-7, CS-3, & CE-5 are integrated components of my tone and are never switched off. (Lynch and Faulkner are the originators of this technique AFAIK)

My tone sounds like it has more gain than it really has....but it has amazing clarity and I can alter my volume and gain with pick attack.

Amp volume is always at 2pm (about 7 on the dial) and we rehearse at stage volume. I use a Boss FV30L volume pedal in the FX loop so I can turn the amp down and still retain my tone.

It may sound complex, but it's really a simple rig. Takes me 10 minutes to setup. Even if I dont soundcheck, it doesn't matter because I know its gonna be right.

All the Les Paul's are setup exactly the same...same pickups, same strings, same action height, same strings. Instead of stopping the train for a tuning check, I switch guitars.

Worry free...Consistency...

Bones crushed while you listen...

Last performance settings visible in photo:

View attachment 27819

Yep. Works for me. You lose too much grit turning guitar volume down. Material dependent of course.