I do enjoy your thought processes!
TonewoodAmp
- Thread starter RVA
- Start date
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
Well and so... some of us enjoy the tone of a fine acoustic guitar
amplified as cleanly as possible. LR Baggs has created one of the best
ways to transfer the tone of an acoustic guitar to a P.A.system with as
little "processing" as possible.
www.lrbaggs.com
Presenting the LR Baggs Lyric microphone, which is mounted inside the guitar
on one of the braces, and which picks up the acoustic sound and sends it to
the P.A. to make it loud.
Previous to my allegiance to the L.R. Baggs system described above, I was a fan
of the Fishman Elipse Blend system, which blended the tone of an undersaddle
piezo pickup with a microphone inside the guitar box. This system worked fine for
me for years, giving me a fine and present tone from my acoustic guitar that could
be amplified without distortion or feedback easily.
But there has been a lot of progress in the amplification of the signal from an acoustic
guitar... in the last twenty years. Maybe there is something more modernistic yet,
which I don't know about. That's very likely. But the LR Baggs Lyric is a fine and useful
pickup for a gigging musician. Most sound guys in my experience were able to mix
that signal easily and without fuss.
And THAT, my friends is what it's all about.
amplified as cleanly as possible. LR Baggs has created one of the best
ways to transfer the tone of an acoustic guitar to a P.A.system with as
little "processing" as possible.
Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone — LR Baggs
The LR Baggs Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone provides natural acoustic amplification for a studio quality sound anywhere you plug in.
www.lrbaggs.com
Presenting the LR Baggs Lyric microphone, which is mounted inside the guitar
on one of the braces, and which picks up the acoustic sound and sends it to
the P.A. to make it loud.
Previous to my allegiance to the L.R. Baggs system described above, I was a fan
of the Fishman Elipse Blend system, which blended the tone of an undersaddle
piezo pickup with a microphone inside the guitar box. This system worked fine for
me for years, giving me a fine and present tone from my acoustic guitar that could
be amplified without distortion or feedback easily.
But there has been a lot of progress in the amplification of the signal from an acoustic
guitar... in the last twenty years. Maybe there is something more modernistic yet,
which I don't know about. That's very likely. But the LR Baggs Lyric is a fine and useful
pickup for a gigging musician. Most sound guys in my experience were able to mix
that signal easily and without fuss.
And THAT, my friends is what it's all about.
Amp Mad Scientist
Ambassador of Heresy
Well and so... some of us enjoy the tone of a fine acoustic guitar
amplified as cleanly as possible. LR Baggs has created one of the best
ways to transfer the tone of an acoustic guitar to a P.A.system with as
little "processing" as possible.
Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone — LR Baggs
The LR Baggs Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone provides natural acoustic amplification for a studio quality sound anywhere you plug in.
Presenting the LR Baggs Lyric microphone, which is mounted inside the guitar
on one of the braces, and which picks up the acoustic sound and sends it to
the P.A. to make it loud.
Previous to my allegiance to the L.R. Baggs system described above, I was a fan
of the Fishman Elipse Blend system, which blended the tone of an undersaddle
piezo pickup with a microphone inside the guitar box. This system worked fine for
me for years, giving me a fine and present tone from my acoustic guitar that could
be amplified without distortion or feedback easily.
But there has been a lot of progress in the amplification of the signal from an acoustic
guitar... in the last twenty years. Maybe there is something more modernistic yet,
which I don't know about. That's very likely. But the LR Baggs Lyric is a fine and useful
pickup for a gigging musician. Most sound guys in my experience were able to mix
that signal easily and without fuss.
And THAT, my friends is what it's all about.
I think that on a live stage, the EQ (to eliminate resonant feedback) for acoustic guitar is by far the most challenged area.
It's just because most players out there put a lower priority on good equalization without realizing how important it really is.
But we are seeing more guitars now with built in quasi parametric -which shows that at least somebody is thinking about controlling the feedback in a live situation.
EQ is your best friend when acoustic guitar plays on a live stage.
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Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
So I wrote my skeptical post in March of 2020. Saying that the pickups I mentioned
would bring the signal from the acoustic into an amp, as suggested by one of our other
colleagues, and once it's in the amp, we can spin it or wobble it as we wish.
But now I own a Tonewood amp, and I bought two of the mounting rigs, one for each of
my two remaining acoustic guitars. Do you know what I use it for? I use it for fun.
It's very fun. I know guys who've spent more than I spent on the Tonewood amp
at the race track, or the Casino... and they called that "fun.' And that's not counting
drinks and consolation from ladies of the night later. *grins
So, instead of fast women and slow horses
I spent my money on the gear and spent some time preparing my presets,
and now I can switch the tonewood apparatus from one guitar to another.
I can make it sound really good in my living room or on my porch.
My situation is very different now than it was two years ago. Two years ago
I had my own house in a semi rural area, so I could crank my
amps up as loud as I felt like... with no consequences except that ringing sensation.
And I was still touring the coffee house/festival circuit and thinking like a pro.
Now I live in a small apartment surrounded by neighbors and I haven't played my
electric guitars very much. I retired from touring to take up a new career as
care giver. I sold all my 'vintage" instruments and fostered most of my amps.
I kept my Vox VT-30 and my Roland CB-60 XT. They're small, dependable and
they kick ass.
And now all my musician friends are out of work, with no prospects
in the immediate future. My former band mates are still working, playing zoom concerts
and this weekend I'll be invited to be the double secret bonus special guest for a
couple songs. I won't use the tone wood amp in performance.
I use it for fun and for inspiration. I play my acoustic guitars a lot, and no one has
complained. I've sat out on my porch and played and sang, and ladies have come from
different parts of the castle to check it out. Cain't beat that. I'm a widower now and
so that's fun too. It's got three different kinds of reverb: room, hall and plate.
It's got a tremolo I never use, and a couple other effects that I could replace by downloading
something else from the web site, but I haven't tried that. I'm having too much fun
with the plate reverb and the delay. This thing adds a lot of sustain, man. Acoustic
guitars usually decay their notes pretty quickly.
These days, after an unprecedented year of wildfires, hurricanes, tornados,
riots, bullish*t and deadly disease followed by a bungled but vicious
coup attempt, fun is really important... especially for a grieving widower.
So my review is very favorable. I need all the inspiration I can get... so this
piece of gear makes practice fun and exciting. Oh and it's easily removable
without marring the guitars.
It doesn't work if you don't have a pickup.
The processor adds the f/x by vibrating the back wall, and the guitar top
amplifies that as it amplifies the regular guitar tone. You can turn the f/x
mix up or down using the guitar pickup's volume control, or the one on the
Tonewood amp. So the effect can be subtle or strong. I like subtle.
would bring the signal from the acoustic into an amp, as suggested by one of our other
colleagues, and once it's in the amp, we can spin it or wobble it as we wish.
But now I own a Tonewood amp, and I bought two of the mounting rigs, one for each of
my two remaining acoustic guitars. Do you know what I use it for? I use it for fun.
It's very fun. I know guys who've spent more than I spent on the Tonewood amp
at the race track, or the Casino... and they called that "fun.' And that's not counting
drinks and consolation from ladies of the night later. *grins
So, instead of fast women and slow horses
I spent my money on the gear and spent some time preparing my presets,
and now I can switch the tonewood apparatus from one guitar to another.
I can make it sound really good in my living room or on my porch.
My situation is very different now than it was two years ago. Two years ago
I had my own house in a semi rural area, so I could crank my
amps up as loud as I felt like... with no consequences except that ringing sensation.
And I was still touring the coffee house/festival circuit and thinking like a pro.
Now I live in a small apartment surrounded by neighbors and I haven't played my
electric guitars very much. I retired from touring to take up a new career as
care giver. I sold all my 'vintage" instruments and fostered most of my amps.
I kept my Vox VT-30 and my Roland CB-60 XT. They're small, dependable and
they kick ass.
And now all my musician friends are out of work, with no prospects
in the immediate future. My former band mates are still working, playing zoom concerts
and this weekend I'll be invited to be the double secret bonus special guest for a
couple songs. I won't use the tone wood amp in performance.
I use it for fun and for inspiration. I play my acoustic guitars a lot, and no one has
complained. I've sat out on my porch and played and sang, and ladies have come from
different parts of the castle to check it out. Cain't beat that. I'm a widower now and
so that's fun too. It's got three different kinds of reverb: room, hall and plate.
It's got a tremolo I never use, and a couple other effects that I could replace by downloading
something else from the web site, but I haven't tried that. I'm having too much fun
with the plate reverb and the delay. This thing adds a lot of sustain, man. Acoustic
guitars usually decay their notes pretty quickly.
These days, after an unprecedented year of wildfires, hurricanes, tornados,
riots, bullish*t and deadly disease followed by a bungled but vicious
coup attempt, fun is really important... especially for a grieving widower.
So my review is very favorable. I need all the inspiration I can get... so this
piece of gear makes practice fun and exciting. Oh and it's easily removable
without marring the guitars.
It doesn't work if you don't have a pickup.
The processor adds the f/x by vibrating the back wall, and the guitar top
amplifies that as it amplifies the regular guitar tone. You can turn the f/x
mix up or down using the guitar pickup's volume control, or the one on the
Tonewood amp. So the effect can be subtle or strong. I like subtle.
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Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
I'm sure it's not for everyone... especially if you've got software you're used to using where you can mosh the signal from your acoustic guitar any way but loose. And I've got a pedal board for my acoustic with a couple of nice f/x that I used in performing judiciously: reverb and chorus. Nothing beats being able to turn the chorus off or on with one stomp. If I ever get another gig,
I'll want to use my pedal board because I'm used to it and it's dependable in dicey situations, which is what I built it for.
>So this piece of kit is likely to have "improvements" made until it resembles one of those "everything" boxes
that I've seen guys use. Lots of connectivity will be added, probably including a foot pedal.
>But if you live in an apartment like I do, and you play at home like most of my ex-musician friends, and you don't want to plug in your whole rig, but you want to have fun practicing, I recommend the Tonewood Amp.
I'll want to use my pedal board because I'm used to it and it's dependable in dicey situations, which is what I built it for.
>So this piece of kit is likely to have "improvements" made until it resembles one of those "everything" boxes
that I've seen guys use. Lots of connectivity will be added, probably including a foot pedal.
>But if you live in an apartment like I do, and you play at home like most of my ex-musician friends, and you don't want to plug in your whole rig, but you want to have fun practicing, I recommend the Tonewood Amp.
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
Arise from the dead, O Thread...
Wanna hear something funny? I read all of this thread this morning, October 20 2022 and realized that
so much has happened in my life since the last time I wrote here... that I forgot ALL about my tone wood amp.
We'll HAVE to add that to my review. Two of my acoustic guitars still have the magnets inside of them
and I forgot about that too, except to wonder idly why my Martin XC1T seemed heavier than I remembered.
*laughs
But really, it ain't the fault of the equipment. It's about the fact that I moved several times in the past year and
a half, I fell in love again (& at MY age...), I bought a house in the North Country of Michigan (so I've left the desert Southwest)
...after I got my shots in '21 I drove my Chevy Equinox more than 6000 miles in a couple months, dragging a trailer
full of antiques for a couple friends of mine. I was so tired of being hunkered down and hiding from the pandemic
that getting out on the road was worth all the effort. My friends paid for some of my expenses.
I got my first shot in March of 21, and I was so relieved that I broke down and cried on the way back from the druggist.
I'm sure my tone wood amp was somewhere in that silver trailer, because this was taken on my first trip out of Tucson,
and I loaded all my most important things for the run North. The question in my mind today... where is it now?
I'd like to get it out of whatever dusty box it's in and see if the batt'ries have rotted. I'll clean it up and put it to
use in my new home.
Here's another reason why I forgot about the Tonewood Amp...
I've been using this puppy, and having lots of fun and inspiration with it. The first half of 2022 was spent
with my brother, who was struggling with prostate cancer and needed all the love and companionship that
a good brother can give. I did my best for him, and so did his doctors but he died this July. I played a lot
of music with my brother in '22, and mostly used this amp. He had a circuit of open mic events he'd go
to, and I accompanied him as much as I could. I highly recommend this Fishman Loudbox Mini to any
players who use an acoustic guitar at a small venue. AND this handy little amp also has an XLR out, so it can be plugged
into a P.A. and give up nothing on a larger stage. I had gigs with the Yellow Room Gang in September and
this amp did everything I needed. I didn't use my old pedal board, surprisingly.
This amp's got a great reverb and chorus, if used judiciously.
I might take it to my favorite amp guy and pay him to install a quarter inch out, so I can set this Fishman on top
of a larger cabinet... bypass the stock speakers and power some bigger ones. THAT would be fun.
Wanna hear something funny? I read all of this thread this morning, October 20 2022 and realized that
so much has happened in my life since the last time I wrote here... that I forgot ALL about my tone wood amp.
We'll HAVE to add that to my review. Two of my acoustic guitars still have the magnets inside of them
and I forgot about that too, except to wonder idly why my Martin XC1T seemed heavier than I remembered.
*laughs
But really, it ain't the fault of the equipment. It's about the fact that I moved several times in the past year and
a half, I fell in love again (& at MY age...), I bought a house in the North Country of Michigan (so I've left the desert Southwest)
...after I got my shots in '21 I drove my Chevy Equinox more than 6000 miles in a couple months, dragging a trailer
full of antiques for a couple friends of mine. I was so tired of being hunkered down and hiding from the pandemic
that getting out on the road was worth all the effort. My friends paid for some of my expenses.
I got my first shot in March of 21, and I was so relieved that I broke down and cried on the way back from the druggist.
I'm sure my tone wood amp was somewhere in that silver trailer, because this was taken on my first trip out of Tucson,
and I loaded all my most important things for the run North. The question in my mind today... where is it now?
I'd like to get it out of whatever dusty box it's in and see if the batt'ries have rotted. I'll clean it up and put it to
use in my new home.
Here's another reason why I forgot about the Tonewood Amp...
I've been using this puppy, and having lots of fun and inspiration with it. The first half of 2022 was spent
with my brother, who was struggling with prostate cancer and needed all the love and companionship that
a good brother can give. I did my best for him, and so did his doctors but he died this July. I played a lot
of music with my brother in '22, and mostly used this amp. He had a circuit of open mic events he'd go
to, and I accompanied him as much as I could. I highly recommend this Fishman Loudbox Mini to any
players who use an acoustic guitar at a small venue. AND this handy little amp also has an XLR out, so it can be plugged
into a P.A. and give up nothing on a larger stage. I had gigs with the Yellow Room Gang in September and
this amp did everything I needed. I didn't use my old pedal board, surprisingly.
This amp's got a great reverb and chorus, if used judiciously.
I might take it to my favorite amp guy and pay him to install a quarter inch out, so I can set this Fishman on top
of a larger cabinet... bypass the stock speakers and power some bigger ones. THAT would be fun.
Last edited:
Scott Baxendale
Well-Known Member
It’s another gimmick. I bet no one would install one of these on their pre war D-28.
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
Of course no one would. But how many pre-war D-28 guitars actually exist? And what are they worth?
More than my car prolly.
So how many working musicians actually own something like that? Not very many, especially at the level I used
to be at. So the "gimmick" is for the rest of us. Big superstars might own a pre-war D-28, but they employ a whole
sound crew to manage their tone. Collectors might own one or more of such instruments, but they keep their
instruments in a vault and never play them all, so why do they need a gimmick.
If you look at my review above, you see that I suggested the tone wood amp was good for "fun..." and for inspiration
during practice. How many people buy a pre-war D-28 just for fun? Only the rich. The rest of us might need to
improve the tone of some lesser axe we own, and the laziest of us might need a boost to motivate us to practice.
So a guitar snob would NEVER sully his priceless antique with any modernistic devices, and he would not be likely
to be caught dead playing it at some of the dodgy venues that the rest of us tend to frequent. My less expensive
Martin and Gibson above can boldly go where high dollar D-28s might fear to tread.
Amp Mad Scientist
Ambassador of Heresy
We do some gigs where it's just the acoustic guitar and no guitar amplifier.
No PA, the singer just sings.
It's in a small venue, such as a restaurant.
Considering all-in one portability:
In a very small venue, it's plausible that the tone wood amp may be useful.
But for a larger venue the tone wood concept is probably becoming less useful...
You would mic an acoustic guitar, that already has an amplifier inside of it.
The tone wood does not have a line out to feed a bigger system and monitors...
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
well, I'm not selling the thing, and I didn't mean to sound snarky. Sorry if I did.
What I wrote above said that for an apartment dweller who can't plug into an amp
at home without people pounding on the walls or the ceiling, ...or for a casual session
unamplified at a small place, or just to make repetitive practice less of a chore and
more inspiring... the tone wood amp may be useful.
I like the sustain, which even outrageously expensive antique acoustic guitars lack.
I have a perfectly good acoustic pedal board and a small collection of very practical
and carefully selected amps. But sometimes I don't wish to set all that up.
In my old house I had a dedicated music room where my amps and pedals could
stay set up and nobody would trip on them. If a guy's got that, he doesn't need
any tone wood amp.
But if not... maybe it's handy. Play it on yer porch, my friends.
What I wrote above said that for an apartment dweller who can't plug into an amp
at home without people pounding on the walls or the ceiling, ...or for a casual session
unamplified at a small place, or just to make repetitive practice less of a chore and
more inspiring... the tone wood amp may be useful.
I like the sustain, which even outrageously expensive antique acoustic guitars lack.
I have a perfectly good acoustic pedal board and a small collection of very practical
and carefully selected amps. But sometimes I don't wish to set all that up.
In my old house I had a dedicated music room where my amps and pedals could
stay set up and nobody would trip on them. If a guy's got that, he doesn't need
any tone wood amp.
But if not... maybe it's handy. Play it on yer porch, my friends.
Scott Baxendale
Well-Known Member
I freely admit to being an acoustic guitar snob because I’ve been building and restoring high end acoustic guitars professionally since 1974, and I can’t really stand the tone of many modern lower and mid priced acoustic guitars as well as a few higher end guitars.
I began restoring pre war Martins when they were younger than the 250 custom guitars I built in the late 70’s-mid 80’s are now. To demonstrate my acoustic guitar “snobbery” I wouldn’t ever play a Taylor or Breedlove no matter its price point because they are inferior sounding guitars to the guitars we specialize in. Lots of folks love Taylors but they lack proper headroom because of their bracing design and they are mediocre guitars at best.
You could substitute any high end acoustic guitar in my original comment, I just said Pre-war to drive home the point about putting a tonewood amp on the back of any professional grade acoustic.
We demo’d one in our shop when they first came out and to me it was just a cheesy gimmick. It sucked the real tone out of the guitar, dampening the back and created a over processed sound that makes the uneducated ear go wow! , but I didn’t really see it as any kind of panacea to take acoustic guitar to a new level. It’s like a stomp box for the acoustic guitar that takes over the back of the guitar and turns it into kind of a speaker. A singer with a tone wood amp and a looper pedal is the kind of music that gives me nightmares….lol
I can see using it on a crappy guitar to give a sound that can be useful in certain situations, but the way it’s marketed they try to make you think it’s the second coming of John Mayer or something. It’s probably useful for a guy at a party to help impress some girls….but, I don’t see it as a tool professionals will ever adopt to use onstage or in the studio. So far, that seems to have played out since these have been around a few years already and I’ve never seen a professional musician use one onstage or in the studio.
I’ve never seen quality vintage acoustic guitars as priceless antiques. They have always been tools for performing and recording. The people I know that own and use them are players not hedge fund guys.
Collectors are just preserving the guitars for later generations, which makes it hard for musicians to afford as they ramp up the prices. But there still plenty of player grade vintage guitars at fair prices. There are also a few modern makers making serious quality new guitars. It’s the players I’m involved with, not so much the collectors, and lots of great players who are not rich have gone to great lengths to have a vintage guitar that lives is to the tone standards that peaked for acoustic guitars in the 1930’s at the pinnacle of the craft age.
I have a pre war Martin that cost me $600. It’s an 1939 O-17 and is amazing. and I have many vintage and modern high end acoustics.
If I had a tonewood amp I’d probably just put it on a cheap Yamaha and just try it out for busking.
To your comment about the rich owning the vintage market; In the symphony world it’s much more common to pay over $20k for their instruments than it is to pay $5k-10. In the guitar world it’s the exact opposite. A violinist in the symphony thinks nothing of the price point of their violin being worth more than their car, and it doesn’t matter if they are rich or not. It’s their tool that makes their living. So, to the hobby guitar player this might be something they like when sitting around the living room, but to the working musician it’s just a gimmick, because they already have delays, reverbs and compressors in their signal chain when performing or recording.
Thank you for adding this here Col. I always enjoy reading your posts.
Scott Baxendale
Well-Known Member
I’ve installed hundreds of LR Baggs pickups as well as all the other brands. To me the lyric is not that great. A microphone inside of the body of an acoustic guitar is really hard to get positioned so it won’t feedback. Also, the sound inside the box isn’t exactly the same as the sound coming out of the soundhole because the sound waves are bouncing every which way. In EVERY case of my installing a LR Baggs Dual Source, which was their main system 15 years ago, the microphone could only be use in the most minuscule way. If it was barely on you could use it, but add any gain and it was impossible to get a decent sound. The Baggs Paracoustic DI was a useful piece of gear too, it’s a great direct box/pre for onstage however it is so adjustable that it’s as easy to dial in a bad sound as it is a good sound. After many years of dealing with these issues we have come up with a better KISS solution for amplifying acoustic guitars onstage.Well and so... some of us enjoy the tone of a fine acoustic guitar
amplified as cleanly as possible. LR Baggs has created one of the best
ways to transfer the tone of an acoustic guitar to a P.A.system with as
little "processing" as possible.
Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone — LR Baggs
The LR Baggs Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone provides natural acoustic amplification for a studio quality sound anywhere you plug in.
Presenting the LR Baggs Lyric microphone, which is mounted inside the guitar
on one of the braces, and which picks up the acoustic sound and sends it to
the P.A. to make it loud.
Previous to my allegiance to the L.R. Baggs system described above, I was a fan
of the Fishman Elipse Blend system, which blended the tone of an undersaddle
piezo pickup with a microphone inside the guitar box. This system worked fine for
me for years, giving me a fine and present tone from my acoustic guitar that could
be amplified without distortion or feedback easily.
But there has been a lot of progress in the amplification of the signal from an acoustic
guitar... in the last twenty years. Maybe there is something more modernistic yet,
which I don't know about. That's very likely. But the LR Baggs Lyric is a fine and useful
pickup for a gigging musician. Most sound guys in my experience were able to mix
that signal easily and without fuss.
And THAT, my friends is what it's all about.
I like the K&K pure mini transducer. We take this out of the guitar and run it into a small tube mic preamp, such as a ART Tube MP ($50) or this presonus:https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubePREv2--presonus-tubepre-v2
Replace the direct box onstage with the preamp. Plug the guitar into the preamp and send the XLR out to the PA. Send the 1/4” out to an amp onstage. I like to add a delay pedal in the signal going to the guitar amp. The tube in the mic pre fixes all the quankiness that transducer tend to have, as well as giving the signal some natural tube compression. I like to get the direct to the PA signal dialed in first, than once that is set is turn on the amp. I add a small mount of slap back delay with the guitar amp. This gives me the biggest most present and natural sound acoustic in a room that you can get. It’s inexpensive, simple and easy to set up.
Nate D
Active Member
Oooohhhhi love the k&k pure mini. It’s my go to acoustic pickup.
I just recently bought the Loudbox Artist for playing the D-35E through (it has the LR Baggs pup). So far I’ve been very pleased with the setup but have only used it in the studio so far.
