The Gain + Reverb dilemma

Thatbastarddon said:
It can’t be changed in post...that can present problems down the line.
For example, “can we ditch that reverb and delay on the chorus?...nope...it’s printed on the whole track...we’ll have to re-track/overdub...”
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Yes. That is one aspect of it most certainly.

I've created this tone, a tone in which chorus and delay and reverb are integral components of the sound...where the amp's character and focus suddenly blooms when hit with the TS-9...and the pick dynamics just cant be obtained with dry settings...

Now, I have recorded complete sets of dry and wet tracks, but without my board, there is a missing dynamic in my playing without it...
 
Robert Herndon said:
Yes. That is one aspect of it most certainly.

I've created this tone, a tone in which chorus and delay and reverb are integral components of the sound...where the amp's character and focus suddenly blooms when hit with the TS-9...and the pick dynamics just cant be obtained with dry settings...

Now, I have recorded complete sets of dry and wet tracks, but without my board, there is a missing dynamic in my playing without it...
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Yep.
If portions of it (the effected sound) are not desired in the final mix, there will be an overdub session.
It’s not a brick wall scenario....if it is recorded appropriately, it will be fine...if it can be done with dirt/boost only, it can be tarted up in post...easily, and nondestructivly.
Time based, and modulation, effects can not be removed from a root track.(the same is true for dirt)
That is why it is good practice to actually record a guitar track, in parallel, using a DI signal...pulled before anything...including the amp. That track can be processed in any way desirable....like re-amping...IRs...etc.
By all means, tart it up in monitors for the artist tracking, but print at least one unsullied track(like the DI mentioned) for posterity.
It’s just good practice.
 
Thatbastarddon said:
Yep.
If portions of it (the effected sound) are not desired in the final mix, there will be an overdub session.
It’s not a brick wall scenario....if it is recorded appropriately, it will be fine...if it can be done with dirt/boost only, it can be tarted up in post...easily, and nondestructivly.
Time based, and modulation, effects can not be removed from a root track.(the same is true for dirt)
That is why it is good practice to actually record a guitar track, in parallel, using a DI signal...pulled before anything...including the amp. That track can be processed in any way desirable....like re-amping...IRs...etc.
By all means, tart it up in monitors for the artist tracking, but print at least one unsullied track(like the DI mentioned) for posterity.
It’s just good practice.
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Thankfully, my Weber Mass Lite Attenuator gives me DI capability the amp doesn't have...
 
Yep. I often used to have a hard time convincing guitarists to record dry. "It doesn't sound like me, man!"

Seldom use the reverbs in my own rig - only as a special effect, never for an always-on. Recently got a Neunaber Immerse pedal and it's so dimensional that I've been tempted to use it more often, but I have resisted.

When I want ambience I mostly use delay, out of long habit. IMO for live shows reverb is too unpredictable with venue acoustics; you don't want to have to tweak your decay for every stage.

Studio recording is another story of course. But I never print it.
 
eclecticsynergy said:
Yep. I often used to have a hard time convincing guitarists to record dry. "It doesn't sound like me, man!"

Seldom use the reverbs in my own rig - only as a special effect, never for an always-on. Recently got a Neunaber Immerse pedal and it's so dimensional that I've been tempted to use it more often, but I have resisted.

When I want ambience I mostly use delay, out of long habit. IMO for live shows reverb is too unpredictable with venue acoustics; you don't want to have to tweak your decay for every stage.

Studio recording is another story of course. But I never print it.
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We record almost everything dry in the studio where I work. In my home studio, it varies with the project.

If I'm wanting one of my demos to really sound like a live recording, I will record it using my pedalboard and use no post-mixdown digital effects.

On the green channel, I have reverb about halfway. On the red channel, it stays at about 9am, so it's a quite subtle effect, but there... and digital reverb is very controllable.
 
was working on next song today. Was clicking on & off delay & chorus...in all kinds of dif ways. I liked it for ambience..but in the recording mix..you can hear the distinctive tone of no effects & then the squashing or movement of direct at you sound. I guess all my playing years has been with original bands that were strait in..jazz, rock & R&B. I never had to play bass with a guitar player who had a lot of effects. maybe that tone gets acquired over the years..the drum & bass then guitar on top with vocals being first..any band i was in where the vocals took a back seat..so did the audience in a way. Sometimes we forget..we are playing music for others..not critics of other players...i totally admire the old school players way before all this gadgetry..it distracts me & one pedal off in the chain makes a mess or POD players with global volume issues..so hard to mix live from song to song if effects accumulate..a bass with echo or chorus & a guitar with delay & reverb..man ts hard to get it out a PA....how about the level adjusters live..ouch....we had to stop having DI bands play cause of sitting at board..they always dumped the burden of sounding good on us when their tone & levels where so out of whack. best thing. when i work a board...give me a dry signal & a mic'd cab..if reverb is needed..add it post at board to space it in mix live right...no real reverb can be right from the door..it has to be set for the room ..heck sometimes you have to figure out how to de-reverb some rooms....
 
No reverb for this kid, not ever. Hate it, both when I am playing and when I hear other people using it. Have never understood why it endures in our amps after all these years. A little delay/chorus/phaser is fine but reverb is the number 1 tone killer known to man.
 
I like a bit of reverb, but it is easily overdone. The trick, in my opinion, is to use a bit of pre-delay. This means the reverb effect doesn't start until a little bit after you hit a note. That and a low-pass filter. The Catalinbread Talisman I use (based on the EMT plate reverb) has knobs for both. Using the low-pass filter lets you remove some of the low frequencies from the reverb signal (not from the dry signal) and together with the pre-delay it enables you to avoid the muddying effect of the reverb.
 
Gahr said:
I like a bit of reverb, but it is easily overdone. The trick, in my opinion, is to use a bit of pre-delay. This means the reverb effect doesn't start until a little bit after you hit a note. That and a low-pass filter. The Catalinbread Talisman I use (based on the EMT plate reverb) has knobs for both. Using the low-pass filter lets you remove some of the low frequencies from the reverb signal (not from the dry signal) and together with the pre-delay it enables you to avoid the muddying effect of the reverb.
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Andy is one hell of a great player, and a jedi master of the volume swell, but I honestly think all of that would have sounded better with the pedal off.
 
gball said:
No reverb for this kid, not ever. Hate it, both when I am playing and when I hear other people using it. Have never understood why it endures in our amps after all these years. A little delay/chorus/phaser is fine but reverb is the number 1 tone killer known to man.
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It's taken me years to strike the right balance. If you hear my tone by itself, its sounds reverb and delay rich, but live with a band, it fades into the mix and produces that juicy, fat George Lynchy tone...
 
Robert Herndon said:
It's taken me years to strike the right balance. If you hear my tone by itself, its sounds reverb and delay rich, but live with a band, it fades into the mix and produces that juicy, fat George Lynchy tone...
Click to expand...

I will use a touch of (analog) delay here and there to add some ambience when the song calls for it, but I have never gotten along with reverb. I've always felt it makes things too spongy and ill-defined even when used in moderation.
 
I have 3 Fender Reverbs...tried the reverb 1 time on each..was cool..it is prob the best reverb there is....never tried it or tremolo ever again,,the focused sound out the cab with proper speakers has my M's watching from the sidelines. fender combo's just make the most natural sound in space & time than anything artificial..
 
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BFT Gibson said:
I have 3 Fender Reverbs...tried the reverb 1 time on each..was cool..it is prob the best reverb there is....never tried it or tremolo ever again,,the focused sound out the cab with proper speakers has my M's watching from the sidelines. fender combo's just make the most natural sound in space & time than anything artificial..
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Kind of how I feel about it. I've actually put those bypass plugs in a couple amps before and removed the reverb tank entirely from the circuit. The amps always sound better with the tank removed, even if you are not using the 'verb.
 
Robert Herndon said:
It's taken me years to strike the right balance. If you hear my tone by itself, its sounds reverb and delay rich, but live with a band, it fades into the mix and produces that juicy, fat George Lynchy tone...
Click to expand...
Some major players use a single delay (fairly short & quiet) as an always-on for live work. It works well and becomes invisible in a band mix, adding richness without being audible in itself except after a sudden stop, or when the guitar is on its own. Kind of like the secret ingredient in a recipe which, while not directly recognizable, still adds something.
A viable & useful trick - especially for one-guitar bands. But they don't record that way.
 
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