Speaker change advice...

Mr Grumpy

Mr Grumpy

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I like the sound characteristics of my Marshall Origin 20 combo with a 16 ohm 50w 10" Celestian V-type speaker, but the consistent problem is that getting into the early breakup sounds I like needs more volume from the power tubes than I want to play at (it needs 70db+ whereas I wanna play at 60-65db to get those sounds).

I have a 16 ohm 25w 10" Celestion greenback. Due to the lower wattage, would this help me push the speaker a bit harder at lower volumes and maybe get closer to the sounds I want at the lower db I need to play at?

Does the question make sense?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
 
Mr Grumpy said:
I like the sound characteristics of my Marshall Origin 20 combo with a 16 ohm 50w 10" Celestian V-type speaker, but the consistent problem is that getting into the early breakup sounds I like needs more volume from the power tubes than I want to play at (it needs 70db+ whereas I wanna play at 60-65db to get those sounds).

I have a 16 ohm 25w 10" Celestion greenback. Due to the lower wattage, would this help me push the speaker a bit harder at lower volumes and maybe get closer to the sounds I want at the lower db I need to play at?

Does the question make sense?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
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The lower wattage may result in earlier speaker breakup, but not earlier power tube overdrive. Even then, a speaker’s tendency to break up is affected by more than just its wattage rating. The cone material and construction come into play, also.

If you want to go down the speaker road, you want to look for a speaker with less efficiency (also referred to as “sensitivity”). A less efficient speaker requires more energy to produce a given sound pressure level. Which means you’d be driving the tubes harder to get to a given volume.

However, I don’t know that you’re going to find a suitable speaker that is 10 dB less efficient than what you are using now. But, I could be wrong. Even then, there’s no guarantee the speaker is actually going to sound good for you, even if it is quiet enough.

You could try an attenuator, but some say that affects your sound, too.
 
Whatever you put in there would need to fully break in before you could judge it, imho.

Case in point; Fender Champion 600. As new, it was stiff and brittle. Everyone complains about the speaker. For the better part of a week, I ran it on "12" with a dime'd Fuzz Face pushing it even further. The following week I went back to my normal "low input" volume on "6" setting and plugged in my ES 330. Sweetness. It was all I could ask for.

So even if you go with a greenback type speaker (I would (y)), it will need a good breaking in to sound sweet. JMHO.
 
seems like I recall a LOW hum or thump -- deep bass recording you can run through your guitar speaker to get it MOVING-- and loosen it up--- some folks use em for home stereo speakers too--

or dime the bass drop the treble and play a BASS through it for a weak
 
The watts rating of a speaker is the rating of what it can handle ... the watts rating of the amplifier is what it puts out. If you want the speaker to sound louder at the same amp volume that requires the speaker to be more efficient.

Whatever you do make sure the ohms load is matched properly. Otherwise you can get arching in a tube socket between the pins and destroy the socket, tube, and maybe something else.
 
They are both 16ohms, and yeah the stuff about efficiency does make sense - I may be barking up the wrong tree here. The V-type speaker does sound good, no complaints at all about the sound.

I am considering a cheap and cheerful power soak...
 
It's only 20W. What context are you using it in, and how fussy do you need to be about the sound in that context? I mainly worry about sound nuances when playing live or in the studio. If it is just at home I wouldn't stress over it too much. If in the studio then microphone placement might have as big an impact as the speaker that it is recording. Live I think a 20W amp you would be cranking it to be heard over most drummers besides the old brush using jazz guys
 
Dave Sloven said:
It's only 20W. What context are you using it in, and how fussy do you need to be about the sound in that context? I mainly worry about sound nuances when playing live or in the studio. If it is just at home I wouldn't stress over it too much. If in the studio then microphone placement might have as big an impact as the speaker that it is recording. Live I think a 20W amp you would be cranking it to be heard over most drummers besides the old brush using jazz guys
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It's just the nature of the amp, it has a LOT of headroom for a 20w amp, so needs rehearsal level volume to sound great. I'd like it to sound great at home volumes too - it does have a 3w and .3w setting, so that helps, but there's so much headroom that lower than 70db doesn't get the grit I would like.
 
Leedspool said:
I get the breakup early/lower volume by using a volume pedal in the FX loop
Click to expand...

The Origin is very unusual for a 20w amp, I don't think there's any way of getting it's great sounds without 80db+ volume. There's just so much headroom available that you need volume from the power amps.

I will try, as you say, putting an OD/volume pedal in the power loop; it might work.

But I moght well sell the Origin and do what I should always have done - get a cab, maybe a dsl1 for $250 then in time, look for something sexy that can also plug into the cab. I have my eye on a nice Laney cab that has a 12" warehouse speaker (supposed to be like a V-series) for $200 in near perfect condition.
 
Dave Sloven said:
Whichever amp you buy in Darwin it will probably be mouldy and have a cane toad living in it before long
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Interesting.

It gives me the idea for a new amp effect, which utilizes tube tremolo, but not as part of the audio signal.
Instead the peak amplitudes of the tremolo would energize a relay which taps off one of the transformer windings.
The controlled relay circuit energizes a shock coil attached to a plug in module on a large toad, shaped by the Speed and Intensity pots.
The shock coil stimulates the toad to croak up close at the springs of a reverb tank, blending in with the reverb signal.

I give you: the Ribbitverb.

The toad would likely have to be replaced more often than power tubes.
Different varieties of toads would be offered for voicing the effect.
 
Understanding Speaker Efficiency

I did some study when I replaced the Marsland speaker in my Traynor. Went with a 12” Celestion Vintage 30. Thing sounds awesome. But I have to crank it to get breakup. The old original speaker would breakup at way less volume. The Link I included here is a good read. In my case. I stuck too efficient a speaker in. Sounds great. Got a ton of head room. But unless I use a pedal for OD, by the time I get it to breakup..... I’m rattling the walls and windows and hurting ears. Oh well.
 
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