So....Watcha Been Eyeballin'?

Robert Herndon said:
Too low???

Are you less than .070" at the 12th fret???
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No idea what they actually were when I got them. The Goldtop was purchased at a dealer, and I was raising the tailpiece up right there while I was test-driving it (I was already certain I was going to buy it, unless there was something wrong with the electronics). The Classic came to me straight from the Gibson factory, so I know nobody had a chance to muck around with it after it was boxed up. It was equally too low right out of the box, whatever that measurement was.

I don't really care though. When I get a new guitar the first thing I do is put on my preferred strings, adjust the truss rod to my liking (I like my necks just about as straight as I can get them with virtually no relief), intonate and then start adjusting the heights of bridge, tailpiece and pickups from there. Sometimes I move things around more than I expected to and sometimes not, but unlike you I do it all by how things feel in my hands and sound in my ears. Have not really ever checked a factory spec in all these years of playing.
 
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gball said:
No idea what they actually were when I got them. The Goldtop was purchased at a dealer, and I was raising the tailpiece up right there while I was test-driving it (I was already certain I was going to buy it, unless there was something wrong with the electronics). The Classic came to me straight from the Gibson factory, so I know nobody had a chance to muck around with it after it was boxed up. It was equally too low right out of the box, whatever that measurement was.

I don't really care though. When I get a new guitar the first thing I do is put on my preferred strings, adjust the truss rod to my liking (I like my necks just about as straight as I can get them with virtually no relief), intonate and then start adjusting the heights of bridge, tailpiece and pickups from there. Sometimes I move things around more than I expected to and sometimes not, but unlike you I do it all by how things feel in my hands and sound in my ears. Have not really ever checked a factory spec in all these years of playing.
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A few years ago, I was messing around with a Stratocaster, but it never felt "right" to me. I eventually paid a guy to set it up ($130.00) and it was a night and day difference.

I measured everything so I could duplicate that setup and turns out, it was nothing more than Gibson/Fender service specs (.022 1st fret, .010" relief, .070" @ 12th)

I can setup a guitar by feel and eyeball and it will come out dead-on to the specs posted above. It just works.

I'm doing 10 full setups an hour now and I'd be sunk if I was trying to do it by feel...
 
Robert Herndon said:
A few years ago, I was messing around with a Stratocaster, but it never felt "right" to me. I eventually paid a guy to set it up ($130.00) and it was a night and day difference.

I measured everything so I could duplicate that setup and turns out, it was nothing more than Gibson/Fender service specs (.022 1st fret, .010" relief, .070" @ 12th)

I can setup a guitar by feel and eyeball and it will come out dead-on to the specs posted above. It just works.

I'm doing 10 full setups an hour now and I'd be sunk if I was trying to do it by feel...
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That's cool that it works for you that way. The main thing that convinced me to just set them up myself was taking my guitars in to a tech and having them do a setup to either, A) Factory Spec or B) Their Secret Special Foolproof Perfect Setup. In either case I had to completely re-set up the guitar. After 3 or 4 times trying this and being unhappy with the results I learned to do it all myself.
 
gball said:
That's cool that it works for you that way. The main thing that convinced me to just set them up myself was taking my guitars in to a tech and having them do a setup to either, A) Factory Spec or B) Their Secret Special Foolproof Perfect Setup. In either case I had to completely re-set up the guitar. After 3 or 4 times trying this and being unhappy with the results I learned to do it all myself.
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My strength has always been adherence to the specs. Whether it's building a racing engine, or baking a cake, everything is precise.

People wash out here because they don't follow the rules and specifications and think they know more than the builders.

You'll never hit 100 full setups in a 10 hour day if you are not measuring.

Every so often, your guitars are audited. They know if you are setting up to specs or not.
 
Robert Herndon said:
My strength has always been adherence to the specs. Whether it's building a racing engine, or baking a cake, everything is precise.

People wash out here because they don't follow the rules and specifications and think they know more than the builders.

You'll never hit 100 full setups in a 10 hour day if you are not measuring.

Every so often, your guitars are audited. They know if you are setting up to specs or not.
Click to expand...

I spent a period of time working for a company that builds industrial air compressors, so I know well that following the specs is crucial in a manufacturing environment (and in the case of a compressor you can literally kill someone if you don't follow spec/procedure). And I have no doubt the folks doing the final setup on the Les Pauls are following their internal guidelines, otherwise the whole thing breaks down. I just look at those specs as merely a starting point and feel that everyone should experiment to find out if that's the setup that works for them or if they need adjustment for it to feel and sound best. In my case, I need to make adjustments for the guitars to suit me properly, otherwise I am fighting with them when I play and that's against purposes.
 
I "eyeball" my specs. I can't believe how picky I can get with truss movement turn angles you could measure with hair thickness. Some here are probably the same.

I think a lot regarding action depends on how and what one plays. I've always been lead and like to move quickly often. This requires low action. I don't like it too low though or you can't grab a note for a bend with optimal grab and feel. Thinking about my action I'd say you could stack two quarters between the low E string 5th fret A. This would fill the space from the top of fret to the bottom of the string. I just did a little calculation so it looks like it's 0.1279528 of an inch. This was all ballpark though, but it's got to be very close.

I think extreme shredders go even lower; especially if they don't really need to do a lot of bending. I bet Yngwie's strings are nearly laying on the fretboard. Lol.

To each their own I guess - some measure, some don't.
 
gball said:
I spent a period of time working for a company that builds industrial air compressors, so I know well that following the specs is crucial in a manufacturing environment (and in the case of a compressor you can literally kill someone if you don't follow spec/procedure). And I have no doubt the folks doing the final setup on the Les Pauls are following their internal guidelines, otherwise the whole thing breaks down. I just look at those specs as merely a starting point and feel that everyone should experiment to find out if that's the setup that works for them or if they need adjustment for it to feel and sound best. In my case, I need to make adjustments for the guitars to suit me properly, otherwise I am fighting with them when I play and that's against purposes.
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It's ironic that my personal preference of .022/.025 @ the 1st fret and .070" at the 12th with .008/.010 relief just happens to be what feels "right" to me.

I been setting guitars up for people to those specs since 2017, then I come here and find out it's factory spec...LOL

But I also don't change my EQ based on a venue - only volume levels get changed.

I don't mess with my gear and instead just concentrate on putting on a good show..

Musicians tend to overthink everything.

Be careful what you listen for - you just might hear it.
 
Sapient said:
I "eyeball" my specs. I can't believe how picky I can get with truss movement turn angles you could measure with hair thickness. Some here are probably the same.

I think a lot regarding action depends on how and what one plays. I've always been lead and like to move quickly often. This requires low action. I don't like it too low though or you can't grab a note for a bend with optimal grab and feel. Thinking about my action I'd say you could stack two quarters between the low E string 5th fret A. This would fill the space from the top of fret to the bottom of the string. I just did a little calculation so it looks like it's 0.1279528 of an inch. This was all ballpark though, but it's got to be very close.

I think extreme shredders go even lower; especially if they don't really need to do a lot of bending. I bet Yngwie's strings are nearly laying on the fretboard. Lol.

To each their own I guess - some measure, some don't.
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Yngwie's action is very high, bit his strings are very light.


At 20:38 he mentions action height
 
Robert Herndon said:
It's ironic that my personal preference of .022/.025 @ the 1st fret and .070" at the 12th with .008/.010 relief just happens to be what feels "right" to me.

I been setting guitars up for people to those specs since 2017, then I come here and find out it's factory spec...LOL

But I also don't change my EQ based on a venue - only volume levels get changed.

I don't mess with my gear and instead just concentrate on putting on a good show..

Musicians tend to overthink everything.

Be careful what you listen for - you just might hear it.
Click to expand...
Interesting.
I change EQ to whatever my ears hear which can vary venue to venue and at different volume levels.
Whatever it takes to sound good to the performer, that way they tend to play better.
 
Jethro Rocker said:
Interesting.
I change EQ to whatever my ears hear which can vary venue to venue and at different volume levels.
Whatever it takes to sound good to the performer, that way they tend to play better.
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My tone is something I've put a lot of time into. It's a product, much like any other product.

You use more of it for outdoor venues and less for indoor venues, but I never alter the product.

Interestingly enough, Joe B has said the same thing in an interview, so I'm not just an old fool set in his ways...well, ok, maybe I'm a fool...
 
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Sapient said:
I "eyeball" my specs. I can't believe how picky I can get with truss movement turn angles you could measure with hair thickness. Some here are probably the same.

I think a lot regarding action depends on how and what one plays. I've always been lead and like to move quickly often. This requires low action. I don't like it too low though or you can't grab a note for a bend with optimal grab and feel. Thinking about my action I'd say you could stack two quarters between the low E string 5th fret A. This would fill the space from the top of fret to the bottom of the string. I just did a little calculation so it looks like it's 0.1279528 of an inch. This was all ballpark though, but it's got to be very close.

I think extreme shredders go even lower; especially if they don't really need to do a lot of bending. I bet Yngwie's strings are nearly laying on the fretboard. Lol.

To each their own I guess - some measure, some don't.
Click to expand...

So, a little over 1/8" 0.125" at the 5th fret you say???
 
Robert Herndon said:
My tone is something I've put a lot of time into. It's a product, much like any other product.

You use more of it for outdoor venues and less for indoor venues, but I never alter the product.

Interestingly enough, Joe B has said the same thing in an interview, so I'm not just an old fool set in his ways...well, ok, maybe I'm a fool...
Click to expand...

Yeah. I’ve personally never made venue-specific EQ changes, either.

But, that doesn’t mean the audio guy at the desk didn’t make some EQ changes! Of course, I wouldn’t know of any such adjustments unless he told me.

I create the tone I like and go with it. If the sound guys make adjustments for the house, well, that’s up to them.
 
smitty_p said:
Yeah. I’ve personally never made venue-specific EQ changes, either.

But, that doesn’t mean the audio guy at the desk didn’t make some EQ changes! Of course, I wouldn’t know of any such adjustments unless he told me.

I create the tone I like and go with it. If the sound guys make adjustments for the house, well, that’s up to them.
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I create the tones I want too. In a larger venue at louder volumes EQ will be set differently than in a small one just to get the tone I want. I also use different amps so there's that too!!
 
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