DonP
Guest
Sorry, but I have absolutely no idea. Maybe they were here to visit Pocahontas - she is buried just a few miles from here.
"SNOW" is a four letter word !!!!
- Thread starter Relic
- Start date
Sorry, but I have absolutely no idea. Maybe they were here to visit Pocahontas - she is buried just a few miles from here.
OP
Relic
Well-Known Member
Ya, it's a shame but I too have found very little correlating material that goes with this very interesting picture. It seems to be originating from both Getty Images & the Pinterest site which is very picture orientated but it did have this little bit of accompanying info, "1925: Sioux braves enjoying a toboggan run on Hampstead Heath. (Photo by Fox Photos/Getty Images) (wish there was more of an explanation for this photo as to Sioux braves in London, or UK for that matter)
Here are some fun winter activities that are each rooted in Indigenous traditions! The cold winds are blowing into Tkaronto, and the rest of the Northern hemisphere of Turtle Island has been under a b
Sioux braves enjoying a toboggan run on Hampstead Heath, London, Britain 1925 -- OPENPICS.AEROBATIC.IO
News, sport and what's on from the London 24
Ojibwa Indians imigrants nelson | Toboggans?
Did You Know The First People In"
That is where & how it abruptly ended mid thought on Pinterest. Later on I will try to google those additional tidbits that might bring in some more pertinent information. It really is that interesting a picture! lol But first... I actually have to clear snow away from my fire-wood area on my lawn so I can get what will hopefully be the seasons last load of wood delivered. Whoopie!
DonP
Guest
Yes it was the Getty Images site I got it from.
Walks Backward
Well-Known Member
There were members of the Lakota Nation along with Objiwa and a few Crow that traveled with a small wild west show based out of Nebraska up until the Depression. My father said he knew a few guys that was in that bunch, but most were much older than him and they were very closed mouthed about it as those shows paid in cash weekly.
I know a couple of my uncles were part of Buffalo Bill's show and met Queen Victoria. Said she had a kind face and tiny hands. She told Uncle Red Fox (a great-great uncle) that if she were able she'd have aided the Lakota before their imprisonment (her words) on the reservations. Both had said England was a cold and damp place and wondered how people chose to live there. When told it was an island then they said they understood since you can't ride across the water unless they had ships like those of the show used to get there. They were both relieved to see that a ship was available for their return from England. The train ride to and from New York and the Dakotas was an adventure in itself for them.
I know a couple of my uncles were part of Buffalo Bill's show and met Queen Victoria. Said she had a kind face and tiny hands. She told Uncle Red Fox (a great-great uncle) that if she were able she'd have aided the Lakota before their imprisonment (her words) on the reservations. Both had said England was a cold and damp place and wondered how people chose to live there. When told it was an island then they said they understood since you can't ride across the water unless they had ships like those of the show used to get there. They were both relieved to see that a ship was available for their return from England. The train ride to and from New York and the Dakotas was an adventure in itself for them.
OP
Relic
Well-Known Member
That is pretty much my 'guess' too (& I mean guess!), I just had no way to back it up despite the bit of limited internet searching I did & I certainly had no great uncles passing first hand history of it on to me. There really should be more historical information available on line that shows up when searching & is there for documentation & research.
Wade, weren't those full feathered head-dress's mostly for special occasions & basically not something one would wear on an everyday basis? Like part of a 'Dress' or 'Ceremonial' outfit?
Walks Backward
Well-Known Member
Yes sir, coup-feathers made into what is commonly known as war bonnets, we're worn going into battle. Certain ceremonies, and burial. They were not a part of daily wear and never when at play. There were four types of coup, each with a distinctive cut and trim to the feather. Grand Coup, awarded for riding or approaching on foot among the enemy and striking him with an object and escaping unharmed was considered quite brave and honored action in battle. The killing of an enemy was never the prime objective of a warrior, but saving the life of another in your war party was a great honor far above many other things.
Noting the child in the photo with a full headdress (never happened on the plains or even the rez) causes me to suspect this action was staged for the camera for the amusement of others. The full headdress on all in the photo quite possibly was done as it was "expected" that all Indians wore them and thus gave them "a more authentic appearance" for the locals and others that viewed it.
Noting the child in the photo with a full headdress (never happened on the plains or even the rez) causes me to suspect this action was staged for the camera for the amusement of others. The full headdress on all in the photo quite possibly was done as it was "expected" that all Indians wore them and thus gave them "a more authentic appearance" for the locals and others that viewed it.
DonP
Guest
This all sounds absolutely right. Winters in London would have been miserable back then - homes were heated with a coal fire in the living room - bedrooms left unheated. And of course if they were part of a travelling show, they would have been required to wear show dress in the streets as advertising - no TV or Internet back then.
The encounter with Queen Victoria is interesting, and sounds spot on. It wasn't that long since US independence and she would have been all too aware of her inability to intervene. It's a tragedy for the USA that their history was so mangled by the myth of the Wild West, perpetrated by cynical showmen like Hickock, and later the Hollywood film business. Even now a large part of the world (including many in the US) actually accepts all that stuff as factual. Slavery didn't end with the civil war, particularly in the north, where it wasn't even made illegal.
OP
Relic
Well-Known Member
Although she reigned from 1837 to 1901, I'm pretty sure the period of contact Wade is referencing was sometime around or after the 1880's when these traveling / touring Wild West Shows became big deals! Now sadly not only are they long gone but so is the Big Time Circus about to fade into the sunset as well as this is the last year for the Barnum Bailey Circus. Although obviously different, there are many commonalities with those to forms of big production extravaganza entertainment. And America declared it's independence in 1776 which would give that interaction between Queen & those American Indians a bit over 100 years since declaration to maybe not seem so new anymore. Just trying to put this together in context myself as well.
Boy you said lots of good stuff this post! And don't forget what started all the hype!.. the Dimestore Novel & ever so creative newspaper writer! These writers would often travel West looking for stories to send back to their big Eastern newspapers & most weren't afraid to get a wee bit creative with the facts! This glorified gunslinger violence & tales of murderous natives sold & sold & sold! And sent many a naive city boy traveling westward into an eye opening reality.
Well, the truth was pointed out several times over the course of my various history classes! But God only knows what goes on in these schools nowadays! LOL Actually, schooling has become very PC & I can at least speak for kids around here getting the facts about such things. But in just a general observation, the Wild West & Cowboys & Indians doesn't hold the same allure to todays kids & in a lot of ways has been looked down on by many segments of society. It is all very UN-PC if ya know what I mean. Kids don't play Cowboys & Indians anymore thats for sure!
Now this last part about slavery not ending with the Civil War,.. if you are talking about America, Slavery ended in 1863 when President Lincoln declared it abolished with his Emancipation Proclamation. Due to the Civil War, some southern blacks didn't see and end until the war was won & the Union Soldiers enforced slave freedom.
The 13th Amendment (Constitutionally Abolishing Slavery) passed in January 1865, about 3 months before Confederate General Robert E Lee surrendering at Appomattox. It took until December 18th of 1865 for the last holdout state (Alabama) to accept & ratify the 13th amendment which once again completed uniting all of the United States as one Country!
Unless maybe you are getting fancy with the word "slavery" & are referring to more recently pushed positions on unfair practices that plagued some southern (Bible Belt) blacks like forced labor, debtors prison, prison labor camps & other types of classified re-enslavements or neo-slavery.
Most 'Northern States' experienced various forms of Gradual Emancipation before Lincoln's Union-Wide Emancipation Proclamation.
The world has been on a path of awakening, acceptance & growth for several hundred years now. It is my genuine hope that we continue to see all men equal & hold the same rights in the eyes of our laws and we are not only able to learn from our past, but not be held back by past injustices & instead keep progressing forward in a positive mutually shared existence.
Walks Backward
Well-Known Member
Yes, my uncles were in that show in the early 1890's before the slaughter at Wounded Knee in Dec of '98. But I remember the older one speaking of being free as a boy. He was 6 when in camp when Maj. Reno and troops rode into camp and attacked. Spoke of days gone forever. To a young boy listening to him was an education that could not be found in a history book. He lived to be 106. Was in the Navy in The Spanish American War and was a supervisor in WWII with the Indians from many tribes and nations that patrolled the borders of the U.S. guarding from possible invasion or infiltration of Axis forces. These were those that were too young or old to enter active service but still chose freely to defend this country.
The other uncle was in WWI and fought in France. He said the average German soldier was a tough and determined opponent that had the misfortune of too many aristocrats as leaders. But he became a real character after the war. He lived to be 96. Both spoke fondly of Queen Victoria saying she was a fine person and neither would allow any insulting remarks about her.
And Don is quite correct about the reservations. Regardless the tribe, they were strictly confined to them for generations and leaving would cause your arrest. Later the people in general were "free to go where they chose" but by then most all were mentally beaten down and programmed by the government to not even try. And I'm going to stop here rather than go further with my thoughts on the matter. I will be silent and thus remain civil.
The other uncle was in WWI and fought in France. He said the average German soldier was a tough and determined opponent that had the misfortune of too many aristocrats as leaders. But he became a real character after the war. He lived to be 96. Both spoke fondly of Queen Victoria saying she was a fine person and neither would allow any insulting remarks about her.
And Don is quite correct about the reservations. Regardless the tribe, they were strictly confined to them for generations and leaving would cause your arrest. Later the people in general were "free to go where they chose" but by then most all were mentally beaten down and programmed by the government to not even try. And I'm going to stop here rather than go further with my thoughts on the matter. I will be silent and thus remain civil.