Red Light Cameras

[mcblink]

Perhaps a contrary opinion, but I'm of a mind that until licensing standards are enforced at every level, anything we can do to discourage stupid is helpful.

I neither want, nor am i willing to afford, a cop on every corner. I really like the idea of people being responsible when they fire up the most dangerous thing most will ever use. So if asshats won't slow down in our neighborhoods, won't heed the basic rule, or simply ignore all the others...hell yes take a picture of em and send em a bill.

That said, I'm not a fan of a city relinquishing enforcement to a private contractor.

My jurisdiction may be different, in that a traffic cop is present with the use of photo-radar speed enforcement (about the only traffic enforcement that exists in Portland since citizen oversite was mandated (though not implemented yet) at the ballot box)...

And yes, been hit by both. My son, driving my car, rolled a photo stop and was ticketed by mail. Funny thing though...he takes after his mom, who is Asian, and I am not Asian. Her clearly Asian name and mine are on the title.

So when the ticket was sent out, with a photo of a clearly Asian male at the wheel, the for profit private corporation mailed it to spouse. Didn't look anything like her.

Both they and our city got a nasty letter accusing them of racial profiling. Along with a not very polite "FU, take me to trial you collection of butt holes." They didn't .

And I got popped by a photo-radar on my way to a local ER. Showed up for trial with hospital records. The assigned cop wanted to plea it down. I opted to take my chances. When I presented them to the judge I simply said that I was seeking forgiveness for a clearly exigent circumstance, not permission. She agreed and tossed it.

The cop was displeased. I didn't care. Though, had I known at the time that he was there when I flew by, I'd have stopped and sought help...I was bleeding all over myself and couldn't get it to stop...And American Medical Response doesn't always show up when called (as in this case).

The issue here is that they're taking a picture of the  vehicle and  not the driver or the occupants, as dictated by the law (obviously in this jurisdiction, cannot speak for others)

As such, they cannot  prove that anyone in particular was operating said vehicle at the time the photo was snapped.

It is paramount that the core tenets of our court system are not undermined; that they upheld with integrity, lest they fall apart and fail to work as designed.

In this entire nation, we are to be considered innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. This is an inalienable right we all possess.



I am all for the GOAL. At the end if the day, the goal is to increase the safety levels on our roads and intersections. Ultimately that's the end result these cameras aim to do.

I, too, want the same end result.

But I cannot support the way this particular endeavor operates. It undermines the very basics, it's blatant and it's brazen.....

Hard to believe that we Americans once went to war over a 2% tax on tea.

 

[Ghostman]

Can you believe they outlawed Octopus farming as well?
No roundabouts in Grays Harbor yet.

please don't remind me of Grays Harbor. lol

 

[mcblink]

I received a red light ticket in the mail and ignored it as I had heard that because I did not sign a notice to appear, I legally did not need to appear and could not be held against me unless... I received another ticket that I DID sign a notice to appear. The judge could charge me at that time for the red light camera violation. I never did get another ticket for anything, no worries to be before a judge. A few years later when I received my state tax refund, there was a lien on my tax return for the amount of the red light ticket. POOF!!! Gone, no warning, nothing I could do.

It would be easy to make the issue very quickly much more expensive than it's worth for the courts.

They've capped the fine limit at $145 here.
How bad do they want my $145 dollars?
They'll have to earn it!

 

[Ghostman]

It would be easy to make the issue very quickly much more expensive than it's worth for the courts.

They've capped the fine limit at $145 here.
How bad do they want my $145 dollars?
They'll have to earn it!

Question is then: how can it be reasonably enforced without adding a cop on every corner, for every stop light?

 

[mcblink]

Question is then: how can it be reasonably enforced without adding a cop on every corner, for every stop light?

Well the law would have to be written differently in order to allow for it, for one.

Perhaps the issue should be left to local governmental entities, such as the municipality that it is to be deployed in.

The citizens would have to decide that this is something that they want, then they'd have to agree to fund it through their own taxes, and money generated would go back into their own communities. That's one of the most screwed up parts about this whole thing, IMO. The money.

But they'd have to get enough support to do so and then vote it into place.

...After they wrestle the authority from King Inslee..

 

[rolandson]

As such, they cannot  prove that anyone in particular was operating said vehicle at the time the photo was snapped.

therein lies the distinction...In Oregon the driver must be identifiable and be the individual named on the ticket.

In our case, they ticketed spouse who wasn't the driver (she had to send a scan of her DL, or otherwise demand a court date. And since her DL has a photo of woman, who was not the man on the ticket, the contractor was out the price of postage)*.

The part that angered me is that someone with the private contractor had looked at the image and then compared it to the registered owner who's name who best met the appearance of the guy in the photo. The Asian name.

Something deeply insulting about that.

*they did however ask her to identify the driver so they could ticket him...
that was where the F.U. got used...
in English (my native language)
and Japanese (her native language)
and French (the international language of diplomacy)
and Russian (who likely owns the company).

 

[willmunny]

please don't remind me of Grays Harbor. lol

Aberdeen is trying to get gentrified little by little.
They have a cool little guitar store in town called Guitar Galactica, they have a good tech in there as well.
They are also leaning hard into World music day on June 21st.
I am taking the day off to check it out

Grays Harbor Music | Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[rolandson]

I should add that it isn't all that uncommon to see drivers wearing hats, masks, and sunglasses (even at night) while driving in hipsterville (my name for Portland).

Aberdeen is trying to get gentrified little by little.
They have a cool little guitar store in town called Guitar Galactica, they have a good tech in there as well.
They are also leaning hard into World music day on June 21st.
I am taking the day off to check it out

Grays Harbor Music | Facebook

www.facebook.com

Aberdeen is gorgeous.
I would pass through on my way up to the Olympic Peninsula and the Hoh River. Am I to interpret that to mean the residents are accepting of newcomers? (asking for a friend)
I went to school with a few people from Aberdeen ...

 

[willmunny]

I should add that it isn't all that uncommon to see drivers wearing hats, masks, and sunglasses (even at night) while driving in hipsterville (my name for Portland).


Aberdeen is gorgeous.
I would pass through on my way up to the Olympic Peninsula and the Hoh River. Am I to interpret that to mean the residents are accepting of newcomers? (asking for a friend)
I went to school with a few people from Aberdeen ...

Aberdeen is trying, but it is still rough outside of downtown proper.
I am a person that does not scare easy, but I refuse to enter the Aberdeen Walmart.
There was supposed to be show at Kurt's park on world music day but it was canceled.
One of the invited musicians apparently is known as a very bad dude, and threats of violence were made because of his inclusion.

 

[rolandson]

Aberdeen is trying, but it is still rough outside of downtown proper.
I am a person that does not scare easy, but I refuse to enter the Aberdeen Walmart.
There was supposed to be show at Kurt's park on world music day but it was canceled.
One of the invited musicians apparently is known as a very bad dude, and threats of violence were made because of his inclusion.

in Portland we call that Tuesday.
Re: Walmart...
I've been in a Walmart twice. Both sightseeing. First time was because I'd never been in one and the second was to convince myself I was hallucinating the first time.

Sadly, I must report that I was not.

It was a very strange experience.

 

[GrumpySquatch]

I hate roundabouts with a passion. I get the concept and how it’s supposed to work. To bad 99% of the other drivers are clueless.

American drivers are undertrained compared to other countries. A single test at 16 is not sufficient.

The Mythbusters compared four way intersections versus roundabouts. Roundabouts are more efficient at keeping traffic moving according to their experiment. Would do us well to adopt them.

Four ways are cheaper to build. We do everything cheap.

 

[mcblink]

American drivers are undertrained compared to other countries. A single test at 16 is not sufficient.

As a person who drove an 86' long heavy haul big rig for 11 years, and have done more driving going backwards than most people do going forwards, I think I may agree with you here

 

[GrumpySquatch]

As a person who drove an 86' long heavy haul big rig for 11 years, and have done more driving going backwards than most people do going forwards, I think I may agree with you here

I maintained a CDL for many years. A retest every four years. I know that made me a better driver.

 

[mcblink]

I maintained a CDL for many years. A retest every four years. I know that made me a better driver.

I stopped driving for a living and eventually stopped paying the renewal fees, and all that comes with that.

Trucking is a lifestyle and it's good for some people, and not so much for others. I was away from home for too long, it was tough with the wife and kids and everything. Plus there's a lot of stress out there on the road, with all the crazy divers lol

 

[GrumpySquatch]

I stopped driving for a living and eventually stopped paying the renewal fees, and all that comes with that.

Trucking is a lifestyle and it's good for some people, and not so much for others. I was away from home for too long, it was tough with the wife and kids and everything. Plus there's a lot of stress out there on the road, with all the crazy divers lol

I drove straight trucks and buses. Nothing with a trailer.

There are far too many bad truck drivers these days. Was a time they seemed more professional.

 

[iblive]

American drivers are undertrained compared to other countries. A single test at 16 is not sufficient.

The Mythbusters compared four way intersections versus roundabouts. Roundabouts are more efficient at keeping traffic moving according to their experiment. Would do us well to adopt them.

Four ways are cheaper to build. We do everything cheap.

I don’t disagree. They are more efficient that 4 ways for sure. Issue is to know who does what when. The few I had to navigate, I actually watched drivers speed up as they entered so someone coming from their right couldn’t merge in front of them. It was like watching Indy Cars or Nascar entering a chicane. They’d try and see how fast they could take it and screw anyone else trying to enter the roundabout. Came close to getting nailed more than once….. and one time the dude was no where near the entry to the roundabout when I entered.

 

[Ghostman]

Well the law would have to be written differently in order to allow for it, for one.

Perhaps the issue should be left to local governmental entities, such as the municipality that it is to be deployed in.

The citizens would have to decide that this is something that they want, then they'd have to agree to fund it through their own taxes, and money generated would go back into their own communities. That's one of the most screwed up parts about this whole thing, IMO. The money.

But they'd have to get enough support to do so and then vote it into place.

...After they wrestle the authority from King Inslee..

That doesn't address the issue about the camera not proving that the owner was driving, or was that part of the "law needs to be rewritten" conversation? I imagine the car would need to be captured with the driver, but then it gets into the weeds with facial recognition issues to tie the driver to the car in the picture.

Honestly, I still think it's on the car owner regardless of how the capture is used. Either you trusted your car to the wrong person, or your car was stolen.

 

[Ghostman]

Aberdeen is trying to get gentrified little by little.
They have a cool little guitar store in town called Guitar Galactica, they have a good tech in there as well.
They are also leaning hard into World music day on June 21st.
I am taking the day off to check it out

Grays Harbor Music | Facebook

www.facebook.com

When I was there, I saw three come and go. Les Blues and Rosevear's were my go to's. Rosevear's I miss dearly having been the best shop I'd ever been to. I tried to throw as much cash at that store as I could.

 

[Ghostman]

I don’t disagree. They are more efficient that 4 ways for sure. Issue is to know who does what when. The few I had to navigate, I actually watched drivers speed up as they entered so someone coming from their right couldn’t merge in front of them. It was like watching Indy Cars or Nascar entering a chicane. They’d try and see how fast they could take it and screw anyone else trying to enter the roundabout. Came close to getting nailed more than once….. and one time the dude was no where near the entry to the roundabout when I entered.

Throw in an extra lane in those round-a-bouts and watch American heads explode.

We have been getting a lot more round-a-bouts in my area over the last several years. Three busy intersections were replaced and it has certainly helped the local traffic. The issues I see is that two of them have extra lanes that allow you to bypass the round-a-bout if you are turning right. It blows peoples minds and I see cars slamming on their brakes at the last minute because they can't figure out which lane they need to be in.

 

[iblive]

Throw in an extra lane in those round-a-bouts and watch American heads explode.

We have been getting a lot more round-a-bouts in my area over the last several years. Three busy intersections were replaced and it has certainly helped the local traffic. The issues I see is that two of them have extra lanes that allow you to bypass the round-a-bout if you are turning right. It blows peoples minds and I see cars slamming on their brakes at the last minute because they can't figure out which lane they need to be in.

Yeah. I especially hate those.