Recording advice needed: Mic levels for Guitar cab

[Ghostman]

Some new SM57's hit me today so I had to try them out. I noticed that I'm running into an issue that I can't be the only guy having so thought I would ask the hive-mind.

I have an SM57 and e609 feeding a Focusrite Scarlett interface. This feeds my Reaper DAW. I have (2) Channels recording; one for the SM57, and the other for the e609.

If I set up the interface levels for regular playing, when I go for chugs, I get a spike and RED peak the channels. Crackle, spark, crackley ugliness.

Each track I have an EQ setup to high pass at 120hz to kill the low boom, and a low-pass at 8500hz to kill the fizz. Sounds decent enough, but if I palm mute the first fret, I can get a huge boomy bass frequency going that peaks my channels and I can't dial it out.

I've tried a limiter but if I set the limiter to stop the low boom, my channel levels are far too low when I'm playing other things.

Do I need an outboard mic processor/compressor before going into my interface?

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Do I need an outboard mic processor/compressor before going into my interface?

It would make things easier. Something with a high-pass filter, and a pad would be nice…a really good compressor would help.
I love my UA 6176 units, but they may be overkill for you.
@BFT Gibson likes his GAP (Golden Age Project) , and JoeMeek stuff.
I like the flexibility of having a mixer too…the possibilities for outboard routing multiplies exponentially there.

That said…I don’t have problems like you’ve outlined, unless I’ve made a gain-stage, eq, or routing error somewhere…and I do like my dynamics. The only other time I can recall an issue like that was a case of my source exceeding the SPL level capability of the cheap ass mic I wanted to use…that was some ugly stuff…but fun anyway…

I could mouth off about this stuff for….
















…a really long time.

Whats your budget like?

 

[CoyotesGator]

You can clip a SM57. How close is it to the speaker?

 

[Thatbastarddon]

You can clip a SM57. How close is it to the speaker?

Yes you can…with a stun grenade they’re rated to take 160dB SPL. But anything’s possible…it could be damaged somehow.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Oh yeah! I came back to post a neat bit of kit for a fairly entry level rig. FMR Audio makes some cool stuff, and sometimes people outgrow them…
It won’t let me link the thing…give me a moment…

FMR Audio Really nice Preamp & Compressor combo RNP 8380 RNC 1773 | Reverb

FMR Audio Really nice Preamp RNP 8380& RNC 1773 Stereo Compressor w Rack caseIf you’re looking, you know what theses are and their awesome quality.These were used gently in a smoke free home studio and work 100% with no issues at all. Feel free to ask questions, I will respond.

reverb.com

…there we go.
2 channel preamp…good quality, no frills stuff.
2 channels of compression…nothing crazy, but have been well received by many over the years.
They make other stuff too…like a leveling amp(limiter).

 

[67plexi]

I started with a Steinberg UR243 with Cubase Pro not happy
Next Zoom R20 16 track stand alone recorder has firewire interface great for the money and the recordings sound great
Recording drums use a Allen and Heath QU16 digital board and run the L and R outputs into the Zoom R20
Now for recording guitar AKG dual condenser microphone sounds exact I have a pair of e609 for live use not recording
I can use up to 7 guitar amps at once Just set the AKG back 4 to 8 feet from the speakers set the level
I do have a Tascam Model 24 the Zoom is better got to love the touch screen and sounds cleaner

Zoom R20 Multitrack Digital Recorder

This standalone recorder has it all: a 4.3" touchscreen, 8 mic preamps, 16 tracks, onboard editing, effects, drum loops, MIDI synths, and an 8x4 interface.

www.zzounds.com

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Alright…now that I’m not shopping for you(or me)…I actually have questions about this issue…

If I set up the interface levels for regular playing, when I go for chugs, I get a spike and RED peak the channels. Crackle, spark, crackley ugliness.

Just to be clear…are you “RED peaking” the interface channels? Or Reaper tracks?

Each track I have an EQ setup to high pass at 120hz to kill the low boom, and a low-pass at 8500hz to kill the fizz. Sounds decent enough, but if I palm mute the first fret, I can get a huge boomy bass frequency going that peaks my channels and I can't dial it out.

If this is in Reaper, the first thing I would do is strip the track of all effects(just shut them off), verify the issue is recorded to the unaffected audio, and move from there.

 

[Ghostman]

It would make things easier. Something with a high-pass filter, and a pad would be nice…a really good compressor would help.
I love my UA 6176 units, but they may be overkill for you.
@BFT Gibson likes his GAP (Golden Age Project) , and JoeMeek stuff.
I like the flexibility of having a mixer too…the possibilities for outboard routing multiplies exponentially there.

That said…I don’t have problems like you’ve outlined, unless I’ve made a gain-stage, eq, or routing error somewhere…and I do like my dynamics. The only other time I can recall an issue like that was a case of my source exceeding the SPL level capability of the cheap ass mic I wanted to use…that was some ugly stuff…but fun anyway…

I could mouth off about this stuff for….
















…a really long time.

Whats your budget like?

Budget would need to be pretty low considering this is hobby time, not something I am trying to put tracks together to showcase. Far from production level stuff.

 

[Ghostman]

You can clip a SM57. How close is it to the speaker?

This gets tricky. The face of the SM57 is level with the speaker basket rim, but also, my levels are very low. I record in an apartment, so my cab volumes are conversation level or lower. pathetic I know.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Budget would need to be pretty low considering this is hobby time, not something I am trying to put tracks together to showcase. Far from production level stuff.

I hear you there. After I was done spending money for us, I did post a couple of questions…have you read them?

 

[Ghostman]

Alright…now that I’m not shopping for you(or me)…I actually have questions about this issue…


Just to be clear…are you “RED peaking” the interface channels? Or Reaper tracks?

If this is in Reaper, the first thing I would do is strip the track of all effects(just shut them off), verify the issue is recorded to the unaffected audio, and move from there.

Red peaking the DAW, not the interface. Definitely not the interface. I still have some headroom on that.
The tracks I'm testing with have no effects so far, except for the EQ's which I have turned off just to test and without the high pass filters, it got much worse.

 

[Ghostman]

I hear you there. After I was done spending money for us, I did post a couple of questions…have you read them?

you bet buddy. getting to the posts one at a time.

 

[Ghostman]

So I ended up taming it a bit. I repositioned the e609 and that took a lot of the "WOOF" out of the bottom end that seemed to peak the channel. I also tweaked my amp EQ slightly which pulled some more of that frequency out. There's a slight chance of overload but it's manageable.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Red peaking the DAW, not the interface. Definitely not the interface. I still have some headroom on that.
The tracks I'm testing with have no effects so far, except for the EQ's which I have turned off just to test and without the high pass filters, it got much worse.

So…the raw tracks are not reflective of the interface meters. Are you running some/any kind of interface mix software? Some makers produce these things. The interface should be reasonably accurate to the raw Wav file….unless there’s something engaged inline with the capture. Something that introduces gain. Wether it’s an eq pumping up the low end, or ….
I‘m reaching, and it’s after midnight here, but…are you running your effects to be printed/pre-recording? In other words, is your chain running: mic to interface to Reaper to effects to hard drive?

 

[BFT Gibson]

Its amazing what you can do with a good pre amp. It gets the signal exactly where you need it going into interface. if i didnt pack it in recently , pre amp was making it to the guitar signal since i dont use pedals, the high quality pre amp had same affect into amp by really dialing in the signal strength. Its a clearer more precise gain..maybe controllable. Not so much a tone changer tho it can be but a real weapon to have for sure.

Especially for the heavies in recording can fix a lot of the mess when super high gain is involved

 

[Ghostman]

So…the raw tracks are not reflective of the interface meters. Are you running some/any kind of interface mix software? Some makers produce these things. The interface should be reasonably accurate to the raw Wav file….unless there’s something engaged inline with the capture. Something that introduces gain. Wether it’s an eq pumping up the low end, or ….
I‘m reaching, and it’s after midnight here, but…are you running your effects to be printed/pre-recording? In other words, is your chain running: mic to interface to Reaper to effects to hard drive?

The signal chain is exactly how you described: Mic > Focusrite > Reaper

The sound I'm dealing with I haven't checked if it's recording that way, it's been live through my headphones.

 

[Ghostman]

blew a power tube....

 

[Amp Mad Scientist]

Compression limiting is important in recording.
But what you might want is multi band compression.
This divides up the frequencies and compresses each band of frequency separately.
This can avoid the "pillow" sound of single band compression.
All FM stations and radio / TV uses multi-band compression...for that reason.

 

[Ghostman]

It caught me off-guard this morning to see my power tube quadruplets with 24hr burn-in have shipped 12 hours after I ordered them. Hopefully they were already done and sitting on a shelf?