PHOS: Major try from Writing, Tracking, Mixing & Mastering

BFT Gibson

BFT Gibson

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Well, actually in a strange way by @TVvoodoo Project Orpheus AI challenge thread. Was just starting to write another full album, loosely on a concept theme. As the AI and music creation conversations ramped up. With the most major effort ever applied , can i make something from home that can stand up to the AI generated music.

Not a competition but can i actually make a finished product that stands up. have done quite a bit of recording in Pro studio, so tracking is very strong & gear selection. I never mixed it or mastered it. Just bit the bullet and for 45 days have has a song in Reaper & watched 1 thing each day about mixing. Applied it to my song.

Wow ! I never knew, and how much i learned has made our band so clear & in the right EQ lanes like never before. It is easier on our ears & don't have to fight to find the place on stage to hear everything. Hint, it is more subtractive than adding like we typically do setting up PA. So learning mostly from the old school recording guys, Abby Road, Motown, i tended to learn from those sound engineers and apply the technique and the why behind vs just faking what i knew plugins did. Let's Go !!

Pics of gear for Starters.
 

Attachments

My gear.
Preamps:
Golden Age Pre73 MKii (Neve Preamp circuit)
JoeMeek 6Q Optical pre amp

USB Interface:
Steinberg UR22 mkii

DAW:
REAPER

Computer:
Dell Optiplex 790 completely modded for music (its fast-no freeze -latency ever) do need memory tower asap to store project)
24" Monitor

Monitors;
JBL 305lsr (man do they give the classic JBL sound ! but way too much color to mix on)
Avantone Mixcubes (secret weapon, sound good here -it will translate to most modern crappy ear buds & computer speakers)
2006 Ford Focus crappy car stereo
Home stereo with 2 set speakers (typical smiley face scooped tone that home speakers have - hardest thing to make the mix right on for me)

Headphones:
AKG 240 semi open (old ones with 1/4 , very clear, no bottom, but articulate top end)
Adam H200 closed (for bottom end work)
Behringer HPM 1000, closed (if it can sound good on these crappy things, it will translate)
Sony Earbuds

JBL nano Patch for Monitor Volume

Mackie HM4 - headphone amp - 4 headphones

Black Lion Audio LS4 Monitor selector (can switch back and forth on monitors
 

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Mix notes,First 1 full hour in Avantone Mixcubes, just 1 in mono playing 'mix" as is. Stage 1, from what i learned (if capture & gear selection & mic technique is right) is to gain stage all the instruments and vocals without anything on them, Cool, thing, it sounded pretty decent in Mono, it had energy actually, where as when you click from stereo to mono energy drops off usually.

So, my observation, the 'capture & performance is where it is at. Probably years and years being in bands, you do this naturally at practice & gigs. First level to kick drum, then push PA out. So, whether we know it or not, we are gain staging in "mono" every time we play. Get it right in EQ and layers it goes a long way to allowing the mix to basically mix itself. No adding on effects to cover a bad performance or a bad choice in gear for the song.

These Mixcubes are now priceless to me. Instant fix to the frequencies we really hear. Not the pumped up bass & treble the systems we use to listen with. if we mix on them, we in trouble. Flat, no frills is where it is at mixing.
 

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Shout out to Avantone Mixcubes. Instant cure for translating mix's to most type headphones, earbuds, car stereos people mostly listen on.

1 speaker on, in mono, sounds boring right? well at first it is the awful most sound you ever recorded. Then fader by fader moves (no effects yet-hold on cowboy) by proper gain staging what you spent all the time practicing during the writing phase. Matching your Marshall to a speaker & mic combo to nail the core tone that was in your head.

By knowing your EQ lanes going into the capture. It is there, but not at right volume yet. The Mixcubes help distribute that in midrange right at you, nuetral way. Our brains get tricked by bass & high end easily and depending on monitors , it emphasizes the very things we need to turn down actually.

By focusing in mono (like a kid when my ear was on my small single speaker radio, listening to the 1970 top 10 songs .. oh how good it was !)
It forces you to listen for every instrument until they are all defined in the mix. No, not all of the low end is there but mostly what people listen with is covered. What am i really saying, it cleans up the muddy low end mess by forcing out EQ properly in the mids. The harmonic content of the bass not the sub frequency.
 
I did a 9 month morning man stint weekdays at CHCL 1450 a AM station on a largish Air Force base up here. Doesn't exist any more.
...had a Saturday night hair rock thing 9:30- midnight that was for about a year. all in 1987/'89 period. It was me personally that broke G'nR (I was playing about 2 months before it went krazee!). But i estimate I had listeners probably under 100 or so for the night show.

The 6am- 9am morning stuff was probably 500 or so. we cut away on the hour to broadcast the CBC national news usually about 10 minutes
 
TVvoodoo said:
I did a 9 month morning man stint weekdays at CHCL 1450 a AM station on a largish Air Force base up here. Doesn't exist any more.
...had a Saturday night hair rock thing 9:30- midnight that was for about a year. all in 1987/'89 period. It was me personally that broke G'nR (I was playing about 2 months before it went krazee!). But i estimate I had listeners probably under 100 or so for the night show.

The 6am- 9am morning stuff was probably 500 or so. we cut away on the hour to broadcast the CBC national news usually about 10 minutes
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Very cool, sure do remember GNR breaking that year.
 
Seamus OReally said:
For the past 4 years I’ve been mixing on a pair of Edifier R1280T monitors from Cramazon. My son had a pair of them he used for desktop speakers and I thought they sounded great, so I bought a pair. They have served me well… here’s a recent mix I did on them.

on.soundcloud.com

Funk in the Trunk

funky one-chord jam, inspired by my new bass and new guitar amp
on.soundcloud.com on.soundcloud.com
Click to expand...
Nice !! Very clear mix. I appreciate it very much. Very good separation on instruments. I have such a hot mess coming in all the time with gained up Marshalls. Actually favor this kinda music, Steely Dan is prob my fav but i cant play it. I can do that edge of break up guitar, really enjoy that. Thanks man
 
BFT Gibson said:
My gear.
Preamps:
Golden Age Pre73 MKii (Neve Preamp circuit)
JoeMeek 6Q Optical pre amp

USB Interface:
Steinberg UR22 mkii

DAW:
REAPER

Computer:
Dell Optiplex 790 completely modded for music (its fast-no freeze -latency ever) do need memory tower asap to store project)
24" Monitor

Monitors;
JBL 305lsr (man do they give the classic JBL sound ! but way too much color to mix on)
Avantone Mixcubes (secret weapon, sound good here -it will translate to most modern crappy ear buds & computer speakers)
2006 Ford Focus crappy car stereo
Home stereo with 2 set speakers (typical smiley face scooped tone that home speakers have - hardest thing to make the mix right on for me)

Headphones:
AKG 240 semi open (old ones with 1/4 , very clear, no bottom, but articulate top end)
Adam H200 closed (for bottom end work)
Behringer HPM 1000, closed (if it can sound good on these crappy things, it will translate)
Sony Earbuds

JBL nano Patch for Monitor Volume

Mackie HM4 - headphone amp - 4 headphones

Black Lion Audio LS4 Monitor selector (can switch back and forth on monitors
Click to expand...
I always test my mixes in the car but mine is 19 Yota. lol
 
BFT Gibson said:
Nice !! Very clear mix. I appreciate it very much. Very good separation on instruments. I have such a hot mess coming in all the time with gained up Marshalls. Actually favor this kinda music, Steely Dan is prob my fav but i cant play it. I can do that edge of break up guitar, really enjoy that. Thanks man
Click to expand...
Steely Dan is my all time fave, and I can’t play it, either.
 
Seamus OReally said:
For the past 4 years I’ve been mixing on a pair of Edifier R1280T monitors from Cramazon. My son had a pair of them he used for desktop speakers and I thought they sounded great, so I bought a pair. They have served me well… here’s a recent mix I did on them.

on.soundcloud.com

Funk in the Trunk

funky one-chord jam, inspired by my new bass and new guitar amp
on.soundcloud.com on.soundcloud.com
Click to expand...
That was cool!
 
My point is that you don’t need fancy gear to make a good record. All I have now is an old Mac with a ton of VIs, a Focusrite Scarlet Solo, a MIDI keyboard and my chintzy monitors. Knowing your tools and creating clean, uncluttered arrangements is more important than what your tools are.
 
Seamus OReally said:
My point is that you don’t need fancy gear to make a good record. All I have now is an old Mac with a ton of VIs, a Focusrite Scarlet Solo, a MIDI keyboard and my chintzy monitors. Knowing your tools and creating clean, uncluttered arrangements is more important than what your tools are.
Click to expand...
I have no fancy gear that why am doing this thread, see what can be done while i can still do it! Just got some things to help, my midrange hearing is blown out from all the years of bands. . That is all budget gear & with a few hot guitars coming in, there is a lot to sort out so they get clarity. Really noticing a dif in the Mixcubes, translating so much better now i can hear & unclog the congestion of the guitars & get some separation.
 
Tracking day as the Mix goes on for the first song mix attempt. Have song 2 in Reaper with main guitar, drums & bass & 75% vocals tracked.

What is dif this go round.
I get the drums done over 3 days usually, then go, immediately record it all from guitars to vocals , leads and then its done in 4 hours. All my music is left in this stage, never really mixed properly. I lost my files last years to years and years of music & am redoing a few songs , but forging forward with a new full album.

Song 1 is in final mix stage & Song 2 is getting 2nd guitar tracked.
Having taken a laid back approach for the first time on this song. It allowed me to find what best sound would be for 2nd guitar in the mix. Found the Gibson Dirty Fingers just lights up the JCM 800 2204 but in a tad darker range than the SD JB did. So they will sit nice together.

My instinct is this will help so much as i proceed mixing, wont have 2 guitars so much on top of each other. Also, going to be intersting to find out how i track 2nd guitar since it has been 2 weeks since recorded . can i get at it & stay tight rhythm !
 

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Good tracking session. Enjoyed coming back to it after having time to see a clearer overall song direction. I switch key for a sec & had to keep playing it out to make it blend.

From here on future song creation, Think it will be get drums done, then the main guitar and bass set for foundation,vocals in place .Then leave it,

The idea is captured and the necessary structure is there to start to color it as i go. My feeling is to always capture the vibe then and there. While the initial emotion is reacting to the drums, which is what i initially set up as the emotional up and down ride the song goes on.
So, about 75% is done, captured at the same session. It is basically glued together as a cohesive story & matching emotion in the music.

What was so helpful today. Not 1 plug in used or anything yet. Getting sounding right and leveled from the start. Way better guitar placement this time. The Dirty Finger is playing so well the JB, Thinking Kramer with the Dimarzio Super D might just get the leads.
 
Listen to some of your fave records, and notice how often the arrangement clears out behind the vocal. Bass, drums, vocal… the verses frequently will consist of nothing else. I tend to think those are the critical components of a hot record. All our guitar and keyboard stuff we sweat over is just decor.

Sounds like you’re on the right track.
 
Seamus OReally said:
Listen to some of your fave records, and notice how often the arrangement clears out behind the vocal. Bass, drums, vocal… the verses frequently will consist of nothing else. I tend to think those are the critical components of a hot record. All our guitar and keyboard stuff we sweat over is just decor.

Sounds like you’re on the right track.
Click to expand...
Thanks, great advice. been using reference Tracks, Our 2 Heavy Songs off our 2016 studio album. Pantera & Judas Priest and random modern heavy rock. What i absolutely noticed was ,way too hot on my end for starters & loudness or shear volume has crept up massively from the older recordings. The sheer volume in the modern mixing/mastering seems to run the fine line between pushing loudness as far as you can go and squashing some dynamics. in the process.
 
At that stage where it is sounding good across all my devices. As the final 2 days of mixing are winding down.

I don't trust the bass yet. That is why the rooms that are treated help so much. It is why i got the Adam headphones the polar opposite to my AKG 's. But i am confused on full range systems, i get now in the midrange with bass, but not at the sub bass range.

My JBL's just give that thing JBL's do, they make rock sound very much like rock music. My mix is decent on it but a tad bass heavier than all the other devices.

What has surprised me is how 'alive" my mix has become in 1 MixCube in mono at super low volume. It came alive, first run through last week, worst music i ever heard. Now learned to make it all work in that lil sealed speaker cube. Maybe the best music move have made in awhile next to the 2204 as my main amp.
 
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