Old Kluson Deluxe With 3/8" Drive-In Bushings:

Inspector #20

Inspector #20

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Question for you fellows...

First, before we derail this thread for licking tuners, let me say that I have never had a tuning problem with Gibson Green keys and properly installed strings. In fact, I removed Graphtec Locking Tuners from my 2016 Les Paul and gave them to EsGe, so I would like to keep this thread focused.

I'm looking at an older style Les Paul that uses the two-screw, "Kluson Deluxe" tuners which have a 3/8" headstock hole and bushings that are driven into place. There is no threaded ferrule on these tuners.

Since these were standard equipment on Gibson's for some time, I was curious when Gibson stopped using this "drive-in bushing" arrangement???

My Mom's 1979 Les Paul Custom was already using the threaded ferrules, as can be seen in the image attached below:

received_1266686826748450.jpeg

But considering the late, threaded style Gibson Deluxe tuners have a 3/8" post, does that mean that Gibson has been using 10mm tuner holes since the 1970's???

Would the early style be equal to the later style in terms of tuning stability???

Thanks!!!
 
They've been using them since the '50's, it just depends on the model.

Case in point, here's a 1958 Les Paul Custom:

Aug16_CLM_Vintage-Vault_Les-Paul-Custom_3_WEB.jpg


Came stock with Grovers, which were an upgrade. Standards had the (even for then) old-school green keys.

I've got no problem with green keys but a set of Grovers or Schallers has always been superior.
 
gball said:
They've been using them since the '50's, it just depends on the model.

Case in point, here's a 1958 Les Paul Custom:

Aug16_CLM_Vintage-Vault_Les-Paul-Custom_3_WEB.jpg


Came stock with Grovers, which were an upgrade. Standards had the (even for then) old-school green keys.

I've got no problem with green keys but a set of Grovers or Schallers has always been superior.
Click to expand...


But drilling headstock is required????
 
Robert Herndon said:
But drilling headstock is required????
Click to expand...

If you have a guitar that has the original style green keys with press-in bushings like these:
www.creamtone.com

Kluson Bushings for Vintage or Historic Gibson Tuners • Small Flange Nickel • NOS or LIX Patina

These genuine Kluson bushings are the same size and dimensions as the originals on the '57 Gold Tops, as well as the '58-'60 Bursts. They fit any Gibson or Fender that came from the factory fitted with Kluson tuners, from the 50's till today. Offered in your choice of two finishes: NOS New in...
www.creamtone.com www.creamtone.com

Then yes, you would have to drill/ream out to 10mm to fit either the modern-style green keys or Grover/Schaller/etc as the standard has changed. The only guitars they are still building with the old ones are the vintage reissues.
 
gball said:
If you have a guitar that has the original style green keys with press-in bushings like these:
www.creamtone.com

Kluson Bushings for Vintage or Historic Gibson Tuners • Small Flange Nickel • NOS or LIX Patina

These genuine Kluson bushings are the same size and dimensions as the originals on the '57 Gold Tops, as well as the '58-'60 Bursts. They fit any Gibson or Fender that came from the factory fitted with Kluson tuners, from the 50's till today. Offered in your choice of two finishes: NOS New in...
www.creamtone.com www.creamtone.com

Then yes, you would have to drill/ream out to 10mm to fit either the modern-style green keys or Grover/Schaller/etc as the standard has changed. The only guitars they are still building with the old ones are the vintage reissues.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought..Thanks for the clarification...
 
On the old Kluson tuners with the "knock-in" bushings....is it normal for the hole in the string post to be so close to the bushing???

It looks to my eye that the string posts on my Gibson Green Keys are longer.

Thoughts???

20190625_073102.jpg20190625_073015.jpg
 
67plexi said:
I'm sure Gibson did not use Grover's until the late 1970'S My 1978 RD Standard has them
My 1972 LPC has waffle backs
Click to expand...

They were definitely putting Grovers on some models starting in the 50's and into the 60's.

All-Original 1958:

01379_01379_hs_back.jpg


1961 LP/SG Custom:

5bdc3100-e363-4049-b148-fe9aa1398ba2.JPG


I've seen them all over the place from '68 through the late '70's. I've owned 3 1970's Customs that have all had Schallers, but have played many with waffle backs and grovers. May have just come down to what they had on hand with gold plating knowing Gibson.
 
Robert Herndon said:
Look here at how close the hole is to the bushings...

View attachment 27211
Click to expand...

Those appear to be lockers, so yeah they will be closer to the bushing. That's how the locking ones are on my SG. The non-locking ones have more shaft since you need to have the string wrap around it a few times but no need with locking ones so they can be short to increase the string angle from the nut.
 
Right, but my old Kluson non-locking are short like this. I'm noticing the bushing has a raised shoulder, and that's taking up space...
 
gball said:
I haven't seen a non-locking tuner with such a short shaft. Sorry can't help on that one.
Click to expand...

It's a really old Kluson Deluxe. The bushing has a rasied lip that comes closer to the string hole. I think the bushing is actually the culprit...
 
Those posts definitely look unusually short. Never noticed that on any of mine. Which doesn't necessarily mean none were that way, but I think it would've registered with me during string changes sooner or later...

I did know that some came from the factory with Grovers, probably the reason why a lot of players upgraded to them during the 60s & 70s. My first BB reissue ('74) had wafflebacks and my '76 Custom had Schallers I think.
 
Just as I suspected...major differences in tuning post length...three different lengths on three separate Gibson tuners to be exact...Gibson Deluxe, Kluson Deluxe and Grover.

No biggie...

20190625_073015.jpg

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20190625_073102.jpg

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