NWGBD

Robert, I certainly understand all the geometry, but doesn’t it all come down to friction? If the nut had 0 friction (impossible to obtain) I’d think the geometry wouldn’t matter. I have 2 Strats with the LSR roller nut, I’m gonna go look at them today. Seems like a good compromise in trying to have prefect geometry.

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The roller nuts are decent, but they are only available in 1-11/16" width and 9.5" radius. You can "squeak by" up to 11" radius, bit it's never "right" and generally, the low 'E' and high 'e' is too close to the 1st fret on a flatter radius board.

Additionally, the nut slot on a Warmoth neck is deeper than a Fender (a lot deeper) so you will need to shim the nut (with proprietary 1/8" wide shims) to the correct height.
 
The roller nuts are decent, but they are only available in 1-11/16" width and 9.5" radius. You can "squeak by" up to 11" radius, bit it's never "right" and generally, the low 'E' and high 'e' is too close to the 1st fret on a flatter radius board.

Additionally, the nut slot on a Warmoth neck is deeper than a Fender (a lot deeper) so you will need to shim the nut (with proprietary 1/8" wide shims) to the correct height.
I didn’t research much, so there’s only one size roller nut, jeez.
 
New Warmoth Guitar Build Day. I try not to start a new build until I have all the parts. Well this time it ain’t so. I have a few off days from the basement work as I have a contractor here doing the final phase of drywall.

So I teased the neck in Roberts thread looking for tuners. I bought the body last year and neck a few months ago. Got a set of P90s from the swamp (guess who) and so I started on it. Have installed the tuners, did my forstner bit route for the concentric pots, drilled a hole for the selector toggle switch and enlarged a hole for a Tesi kill switch. Also painted the cavities. Going to do some shielding work today.

It’s a Warmoth Amber body and a killer birds eye maple neck (not really a maple neck fan but this just oozed “buy me”). I always work a “W” into the name to give Warmoth their due. This baby is named after:

Warmoth
Amber
Birds eye

I call her “Wambird” :dood:

Stay tuned for updates…


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Now thats beautiful
 
So ultimately, the choice to align the nut with the existing tuner position for a straight string pull means that the trem will be stable, but the string spacing will be less than optimal. It seems like the best thing to do for home builds is buy a neck that does not have pre-drilled tuner holes. These will be hard to find though.

Confronted with this issue, I would choose optimal spacing since I do not use a trem.

Very nice breakdown, Robert. And with diagrams!! Thanks

I don't believe there is any such thing as optimal or theoretic string spacing. Look at my string spacing. Every string is on a different center-to-center distance:

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But it plays effortlessly and stays in tune even after 11 semitone divebombing.

I agree with you that the only "correct" way to do this is to drill your own tuner holes...
 
Fender 'American Originals' 1960's Stratocaster shown - this needs the low 'E' tuner plugged and redrilled.

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This is what is coming out of the Corona factory...
 
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Vintage 1950's Stratocaster with b & e strings pinched by string button - this will also cause a failure to return to pitch and tuning instability on string bends.

Older does not make it better...

1954_Fender_Stratocaster_The_white_lady_0994_01.jpg
 
I don't believe there is any such thing as optimal or theoretic string spacing. Look at my string spacing. Every string is on a different center-to-center distance:

View attachment 70358

But it plays effortlessly and stays in tune even after 11 semitone divebombing.

I agree with you that the only "correct" way to do this is to drill your own tuner holes...
I suppose having the strings at varying distances from each other is less of an issue than I have assumed it would be. Food for thought. Thanks
 
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I suppose having the strings at varying distances from each other is less of an issue than I have assumed it would be. Food for thought. Thanks
Yeah….I’m not so sure I’d like the low E to A string spacing on this….

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Chords might feel a little tight on the low end…seems like the rest would be ok…maybe a bit of getting used to would sway me, but I don’t think that I have anything with that kind of variance here.
 
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Yeah….I’m not so sure I’d like the low E to A string spacing on this….

View attachment 70369
Chords might feel a little tight on the low end…seems like the rest would be ok…maybe a bit of getting used to would sway me, but I don’t think that I have anything with that kind of variance here.

I love this guitar because I can play it flat out and it stays in tune no mater what I throw at it. The action at the first fret is .030" and the action at the 12th is .080" and it just feels good in my hands.

I'm more of a 'coarse tuner' and less of a fine tuner kind of player - an uneducated, heavy handed Neanderthal.

Now, the only way to really make this 'right' would be to plug and redrill the tuner holes, but I chose not to do it.

Another thing to consider is this neck is 1.125" thick and 1-3/4" wide, so there's more real estate there than meets the eye.

20210225_141306.jpg

I
 
Yeah….I’m not so sure I’d like the low E to A string spacing on this….

View attachment 70369
Chords might feel a little tight on the low end…seems like the rest would be ok…maybe a bit of getting used to would sway me, but I don’t think that I have anything with that kind of variance here.

Ok, i see what your saying about chords being tight, but there's actually more distance between these strings than on my Schecter.
 
Ok, i see what your saying about chords being tight, but there's actually more distance between these strings than on my Schecter.
Personally, I’d rather plug and re-drill the low E tuner into a more acceptable location if the straight draw is a necessity…you already use an oddball tuning machine in that slot…might as well make it right.
 
Personally, I’d rather plug and re-drill the low E tuner into a more acceptable location if the straight draw is a necessity…you already use an oddball tuning machine in that slot…might as well make it right.

The oddball key doesn't bug me. It's just a working guitar. Nothing special, but I did locate a Grover 136G6 that will blend in correctly with the Grover SD91's and be less of an eyesore...

136G6 Grover 1.jpg

136G6 Grover 2.jpg

Yes, to plug and redrill would be the 'correct' fix, but since i can use it with absolute abandon and know that it will return to pitch every time, I just keep using it like it is.

My number one consideration when making a change is "will this earn me more money." Generally, if it doesn't make money, I won't put any real effort into it.

Now, on studio projects, I almost always use my 2019 Schecter Hellraiser C1 with Floyd Rose 1000 (plus coil tapping) for all studio projects. It's super accurate and very versatile.

When I play live, I tend to prefer the 4-1/2 pound Yellow Strat backed up by my counterfeit, Honeyburst Les Paul.

When I am teaching at the local music academy, I tend to rotate though guitars, like my custom double neck, just for show, but surprisingly, the fake Les Paul is the guitar that everyone wants to play and largely because of the stigma that Slash created with the Kris Derrig replica, and how it looks.

The Yellow Stratocaster is the guitar I let people play when they say a stock Fender tremolo won't stay in tune... :)
 
It doesn’t bug me either…the string spacing, as I mentioned previously, would very likely. The tuning head trim washer would cover the proposed plug…mostly…probably. Whatever…just an opinion.
At least it looks like there is no danger of either E string falling off the edge of the fretboard.
:cheers:

And I always pull the low 'E' down, so this works well.
 
It doesn’t bug me either…the string spacing, as I mentioned previously, would very likely. The tuning head trim washer would cover the proposed plug…mostly…probably. Whatever…just an opinion.
At least it looks like there is no danger of either E string falling off the edge of the fretboard.
:cheers:

If I ever build another Stratocaster, I will get a neck without tuner holes.

Also, I like the threaded brass inserts used on the Yngwie Stratocaster.
 
Well did the nut work, installed the bridge and strung it up. The tuners are a bust! While a pain to string, there’s no way to tighten them without a pair of pliers. You have no mechanical advantage (e.g. gear ratio) with these. I couldn’t even get it to tune. I must be missing something. Gonna put a set of Schallers on it now.D85014F5-27EE-41C2-9096-3EE587D50B9E.jpegE938329D-A271-4C0A-8B21-836185CAF22B.jpeg45FC5EAE-B02A-4B83-BB5A-7A8141EFE265.jpegF263A1E3-723F-476B-864F-F2C46B820259.jpeg39C61E1E-090D-46F4-9DC8-C03AA4A0D7F4.jpegC0AC6E5F-E6B2-412D-880A-0FCB9D798F8E.jpeg3441C584-DA3E-4387-B308-EB46ADE6559C.jpeg
 
The tuners are a bust! While a pain to string, there’s no way to tighten them without a pair of pliers. You have no mechanical advantage (e.g. gear ratio) with these. I couldn’t even get it to tune. I must be missing something.
Wow! Looks great, but sorry to read of the difficulties in set up/tuning. I have no experience with these tuners, but could it possibly be an issue involving the over/under tightening of them when installing? Just spitballing…
:cheers:
 
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