NWAOAFD

Robert Herndon said:
I see why a lot of guys dig the small amps. Light. Portable. And if you don't run much gain, you don't need much amp. The band i work for now does a lot of early classic stuff - most of it super clean - I could probably get by with a DSL15.
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That's where you've got it backwards. A smaller amp lets you run groups of gain. But, you can do it without flooding the stage with uncontrolled sound. By mic'ing it to the PA and using monitors, you take advantage of the amplifiers driving the sound system. Plus, the overall audience sound is better because it's controlled by the sound guy who isn't also fighting against wild sound coming from your amp.
 
smitty_p said:
That's where you've got it backwards. A smaller amp lets you run groups of gain. But, you can do it without flooding the stage with uncontrolled sound. By mic'ing it to the PA and using monitors, you take advantage of the amplifiers driving the sound system. Plus, the overall audience sound is better because it's controlled by the sound guy who isn't also fighting against wild sound coming from your amp.
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Agreed. Definitely an advantage.

eSGEe said:
small amp mic'd to PA/Sound board...........legend
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I have my eyes peeled for a deal on one of those little Pignose amps...for vacations, BBQs, and such. I know that there are alternatives, but the only other one that peaks my interest is the Katana mini. The Pignose looks so cool though.
 
smitty_p said:
That's where you've got it backwards. A smaller amp lets you run groups of gain. But, you can do it without flooding the stage with uncontrolled sound. By mic'ing it to the PA and using monitors, you take advantage of the amplifiers driving the sound system. Plus, the overall audience sound is better because it's controlled by the sound guy who isn't also fighting against wild sound coming from your amp.
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Only time I ever mic'd and used a PA was on a worship team (a very brief stint) everything else was stage volume.
 
smitty_p said:
That's where you've got it backwards. A smaller amp lets you run groups of gain. But, you can do it without flooding the stage with uncontrolled sound. By mic'ing it to the PA and using monitors, you take advantage of the amplifiers driving the sound system. Plus, the overall audience sound is better because it's controlled by the sound guy who isn't also fighting against wild sound coming from your amp.
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Right, for playing cleaner I want more power/headroom. Going dirty my 25-watt amps are far more than enough. My Mark 5:25 will freaking sterilize you through a 4x12 if you wind it up.
 
ivan H said:
Yes, that is correct, & multiplying amplifier wattage by 10 gives a 10db increase in actual volume. Cheers
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The funny thing is (I realize you already know this, Ivan...but for the rest of the class...) that 10db increase in volume about what it takes to be perceived as twice as loud.

So, how much wattage does it take to be perceived as twice as loud as a 5 watt amplifier? Fifty watts!

The wonder of logarithms!
 
gball said:
Right, for playing cleaner I want more power/headroom. Going dirty my 25-watt amps are far more than enough. My Mark 5:25 will freaking sterilize you through a 4x12 if you wind it up.
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That's what I do like about my 18watt... It's a low gain build, and has plenty of clean headroom to keep up with a drummer.
It takes pedals really well too.
Playing with the gain at noon, the volume at about ten o'clock, it's plenty loud enough to keep up with unmic'd drums.
 
smitty_p said:
The funny thing is (I realize you already know this, Ivan...but for the rest of the class...) that 10db increase in volume about what it takes to be perceived as twice as loud.

So, how much wattage does it take to be perceived as twice as loud as a 5 watt amplifier? Fifty watts!

The wonder of logarithms!
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Yes, & so, when Pete Townshend plonked his JTM45 head on the bench in front of Jim Marshall & said "I want this TWICE AS LOUD", giving rise to the JTM45/100 amp head & 100 watt guitar amps, he really didn't get what he asked for, though I imagine he was happy with. Cheers
 
gball said:
Right, for playing cleaner I want more power/headroom. Going dirty my 25-watt amps are far more than enough. My Mark 5:25 will freaking sterilize you through a 4x12 if you wind it up.
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Funny, before I started playing with this band I never, ever even switched on my clean channel!!!!!
 
ivan H said:
Yes, & so, when Pete Townshend plonked his JTM45 head on the bench in front of Jim Marshall & said "I want this TWICE AS LOUD", giving rise to the JTM45/100 amp head & 100 watt guitar amps, he really didn't get what he asked for, though I imagine he was happy with. Cheers
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My main amp for years was a relic JTM-30 Combo....
 
Thatbastarddon said:
Isn't it something like:
Doubling wattage gets you a 3db increase volume.
That said, your 40watt Marshall dimed , through the same speaker, would be a little more than 3db(but less than 4db) louder than my 18watt dimed through that same speaker. If my 18watter was running through a speaker that was 4db more efficient we'd probably see some similar readings on a db meter.
So, it's not really as big a spread in intestinal fortitude as one might think.
Even still, not many venues will let a guitarist push out 120db, and both amps are probably capable of doing that just before reaching full volume.
(I know that my Dual Rec will hit 127db on around three quarters volume, through a Vintage 30 loaded Recto cab...then stuff starts shaking out of the ceiling)
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It's not the loudness that grabs me, althought the DSL40C will get fairly loud....it's the quality of the tone....its the depth of the overdrive....this smoothed a lot with the switch to 7025TAD-WA tubes....and even smoother with the switch to a Veteran 30....the VS265 Valvestate even thicker and fuller yet.
 
Robert Herndon said:
It's not the loudness that grabs me, althought the DSL40C will get fairly loud....it's the quality of the tone....its the depth of the overdrive....this smoothed a lot with the switch to 7025TAD-WA tubes....and even smoother with the switch to a Veteran 30....the VS265 Valvestate even thicker and fuller yet.
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But you've said stuff about gain...and not being able to get enough from a smaller amp...and that smaller amps don't have enough "balls" for you...and that you can only get "your" tone at high volumes.
That's ok and all, but not all of us agree with that idea...and some of us have them set up side by side, and can hear it for ourselves.
Like I said, that's ok. I'm guessing that what you really like is power tube distortion from a 6L6, or EL34 amp. Like the amps that you have. You might even be ok with a 20watt 6V6 circuit if you tried one with the right speakers for you. You also might like a single 6L6/EL34 amp...who knows...
 
I have a single 6L6 amplifier.
It has become my main gigging amplifier.
It sounds very different from a 2 X EL84 amp.
 
Tony M. said:
I have a single 6L6 amplifier.
It has become my main gigging amplifier.
It sounds very different from a 2 X EL84 amp.
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I have a little single ended Champ type amp that can accommodate EL84, 6V6, 6L6 & EL34 output tubes. Amazing how much of a difference the different tube types can make to the character of the amp (& output level). Of course, the power transformer has different secondary voltage taps to suit the different tube types & the output transformer has different primary taps for the same reason, so its not quite "plug & play" for the different tube types. Still, its only 5 or so minutes with a soldering iron to change to a different output tube type. It can also accommodate 5Y3, 5V4, 5AR4/GZ34 & Solid State rectifiers. I would like to put an alnico speaker in it. Cheers
 
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