NGD: Epi v Gibson...

[Mr Grumpy]

...this might be an extensive (boring...) NGD explanation and comparison with a few similar guitars because the new guitar seems to be brand new, I have seen no others, so I thought a good review would be useful.

Also, as this place is kinda closed door, I'm gonna put a short version on the EpiphoneTalk site as a kindness in case anybody there is thinking of buying one.

2018 Epiphone Limited Edition Les Paul Special SC in TV Yellow:

Chokdee was very excited...



Came in a gigbag which was fine, better than Fender gigbags, probably not quite as nice as the PRS gigbags - but, better than the Epi gigbags of a few years ago.



Out of the box and onto the wife's uke stand (there was no documentation about this guitar, no guarantee , the guitar had not been set up) and there seemed to be a problem straight away:





Quickly screwed the pickup in, not impressed, already thinking it's going back and cursing myself for being too lazy to pop to Seoul and check it out first... But, I know this shop well, and I can take it back on Thursday and they have many other guitars I can buy instead (lots of nice Gibsons at that particular shop, and maybe a plain jane Gibson LP faded would do the trick anyways?).

Not in tune, tuned it up, terrible buzzing from half the frets (particularly from the 3rd to the 12th), so it was time to get the truss rod wrench out:



(Don't like the look of that nut because it looks like cheap plastic, but seems to be cut well...)

The little bastard took a while; I had to max the rod out anti-clockwise (which I never like to do) and raise the bridge a tad (which I'm never that fond of doing unless I have to). Still have to be careful how I fret the D and G on the 4th fret to get a clean sound, but otherwise good. Noticed 3 or 4 other places on the fretboard which weren't deadspots, but not ringing as you'd like. At this point, Ray is thinking "I told you so, you'll be needing to do some fretwork" - and he may be right, but I reckon if I leave her overnight to settle, get used to her foibles a bit, then I may be able to get things right.

The action is fine; pretty good even.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

While tuning up, I noticed that the tuners were nice and smooth, then I noticed that the D-string tuner was so smooth it did nothing at all for half a turn every now again; hmmm... The tuners look fine, are useable, and I suspect will be fine (I might be able to do something to fix the D-string tuner - if anybody has any ideas then let me know, please).



Some cavity shots - you'll noticed how the cavity covers do not fit flush, not the end of the world, not noticeable when you're playing, but you know, I suppose that's what you expect from a $415 guitar. Still not impressed...





So far, I was kinda meh, although I had noticed that the guitar was a good weight (plenty heavier than my Gibson SG jnr) and it felt nice in the hand.

So I started looking at the electronics. I think they all look good - better than I thought they'd be for a $400 Epi:







The switches and pots are done ok and look of decent quality. The control switches and knobs/pots all feel good. Epi have made an effort to put decent enough stuff in - this isn't the really low end stuff that came in my Epi SG310

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Here are some pictures of the little yellow beast - the paint isn't good or bad particularly; it's a thickish goop poly as you'd expect. They may have put one of those horrible veneers at the back, but the paint is quite thick, so you can't see it well. But, the guitar feels nice in the hand, fits well on the knee when playing too.


(The serial number cannot be traced on any of the serial number look-up sites I checked, but this guitar isn't a fake - just an unusual model - I hope it rockets in value!).


The fretboard is really nice; it looks nice, feels nice and plays nicely. Doesn't need oiling and doesn't have sharp edges.











So now I'm starting to think this little bastard may have been a decent buy.

Ok, it needed setting up, the pickup needed screwing in too - but, they're no biggies. The electronics and switches are good. The hardware is fine (I will need more time to see, but it seems ok on first inspection and a little play time). The nut looks like cheap ugly plastic, but is cut well and has given me no problems so far. The fretboard is nice, really nice actually. The neck is quite a similar shape to my SG and feels comfortable to hold and play.

OK, as you can see here, the pickups are too low (especially the bridge), but they sound balanced and fine when playing; just adding a bit more gain and volume (compared to the SG junior settings).

 

[Mr Grumpy]

So, how does it compare to the $1400 Gibson?

Here are some pictures, I think they are similar guitars in many ways...



















I tried to get some pictures to show the relative dimensions. The Epi is thicker and heavier, obviously, but the necks are similar, especially close to the nut, and on the knee playing the Epi feels very comfortable (I had a Harley Benton Les Paul a few years back and it always felt terrible...).

I have been playing the SG the last couple of days in anticipation and it really feels fantastic and sounds amazing - it is better than folks who have never played an SG junior will believe, it's a very very fine guitar. &, I expected the Epi to feel like a piece of crap, but it doesn't. You can switch between the two and still enjoy playing the Epi - I was surprised by this, and it's quite a compliment to the yellow monster.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

So, what's it like to play?

Let's bear in mind that I still haven't got the setup spot on, and I probably need to raise the neck pup a tad and the bridge pup a fair amount, but it still sounds good (I might not even bother changing the pickup height yet). It doesn't have the bite or variety of sounds the Gibson does (I could improve that with pickup height adjustment and maybe new capacitors?), but it has it's own sound, quite sweet - probably needs a drive pedal or more gain from the amp in a way that the junior doesn't, but that's just the normal sound of a LP/SG special, imho. I don't feel like changing anything. It isn't as good as the SG, but it's not as far away as I expected in play and feel. It's better than guitars I've had at twice the price.

I like it.

I'm gonna compare it to two other guitars I've had which have some similarities:

Epiphone G310 which are priced at $300:



There's no comparison, the yellow monster is superior in every way. You could (and I have) spent $500++ on the G310 and it would not be anywhere near as good sounding or playing or feeling as the yellow monster. For just $100 more, this Epiphone Les Paul Special acts like a guitar in a different league from the G310.

PRS SE One - about $450 dollars, so pretty close in price and style. I think this is a good comparison and I fully expected the PRS to win comfortably.



The PRS looks better, it just does.

The electronics on the PRS are minimal, but I wasn't impressed with them; the Yellow Monster is at least it's equal there. The PRS had a really nice bridge and tuners, but the Yellow Monster isn't bad either, not quite up to the standard of the PRS, imho, but the Epi tuners look great, and the bridge seems to function well and offers more intonation than the PRS, so I'm gonna call that a draw.

Pickups: I was never impressed with the PRS pickup, underpowered and lacking in versatility (maybe the korina wood took something away from the sound? ), but not bad per se. Even without adjusting them properly, the Epiphone pickups, to my surprise, are superior.

Build quality: the Epiphone is good, but let down by the plastic plates on the back (really not a big deal), and the D-string tuner isn't right. But, the nut on my PRS was cut badly which you wouldn't expect from any PRS.

Neck: the PRS was terrible for me while the Yellow Monster feels great.

Personality: the PRS was beautiful but had no, none, nada personality at all (as well as being uncomfortable to play). The Epiphone is a little bit ugly in that mustard/yellow colour and thick goopy poly finish, but she wears it well and comes alive in your hands.

The Yellow Monster is a better guitar than the PRS SE One.

The Yellow Monster is a win. For the price, Epiphone have put out a good guitar (which needs some attention as everyone expects from an Epiphone...) which has surprised me. It will do the job as an always on the stand beater (which Chokdee can piss on as much as he likes...) which'll encourage me to play, but it's also a bit more than that - we'll have to see how the hardware holds up, but I reckon you could gig with this thing, enjoy yourself and sound really good.

Thanks for reading this version of War and Peace... I've gotta take the dog out for a walk to get some browny points before the wife comes home...

 

[Dave Sloven]

My experience of P-90s is that they generally sound pretty good, even cheap ones.

That really is atrocious the way they sent that to you.

One reason why the Epiphone was my last choice after the Cort and the Squier. The QC just isn't there any more, even with the Custom Shop!

 

[Dave Sloven]

The serial number cannot be traced on any of the serial number look-up sites I checked, but this guitar isn't a fake - just an unusual model - I hope it rockets in value!

I don't know which site you went to, but using the usual Epiphone decoder this is what comes up:

Your guitar was made at the
Qingdao Plant (Epiphone), China
on November, 2018
Production Number: 19240

The Guitar Dater Project - Epiphone Serial Number Decoder

 

[Gahr]

Congrats! It certainly is a beauty. Hopefully you'll get it set up right and get the tuner fixed. With a problem like that I'd take it back to the store to have the problem sorted. They should be willing to swap them for you.

I too was pleasantly surprised with the Epiphone P90s in my SG '61 Special. Excellent value for money (I paid around $290 by today's exchange rate) when I bought it.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

My experience of P-90s is that they generally sound pretty good, even cheap ones.

That really is atrocious the way they sent that to you.

One reason why the Epiphone was my last choice after the Cort and the Squier. The QC just isn't there any more, even with the Custom Shop!

Yeah, and the worry was that the Epi would be complete crap because so many are, imho. But, it's a good guitar that has some poor quality control by the factory and shop who sent it out .I will contact them about that...

Obviously a Gibson Les Paul special at $1200+ is a lot nicer, but this does feel like a version of a good guitar whereas my G310 didn't feel anything like any Gibson SG I've ever owned or played.

Edit to add: thanks for the serial number info, I don't know why the two sites I checked didn't work??? I also sent Epiphone an email to ask for details about the guitar; don't know if they'll even respond.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Congrats! It certainly is a beauty. Hopefully you'll get it set up right and get the tuner fixed. With a problem like that I'd take it back to the store to have the problem sorted. They should be willing to swap them for you.

I too was pleasantly surprised with the Epiphone P90s in my SG '61 Special. Excellent value for money (I paid around $290 by today's exchange rate) when I bought it.

Thanks, Gahr - I think you're being too kind, I wouldn't say it's beautiful but it is nice. I just walked back in from walking the dog, looked at her on the stand, felt good and wanted to pick her up and have a play.

That little SG '61 of yours is really sweet - a perfect guitar to have around the house or take out somewhere in a gigbag.

Epis are always a worry for me with regard to quality, especially the nut (on this it seems ok), the frets and fretboard (both of these are very good - it might need some polishing on the 4th fret or around that region, not sure yet), the tuners (these are nice tuners excluding the D-string which does work fine and holds tension, no slippage, just not as consistently smooth as the other 5 tuning pegs - I've had the same issue on 2 Gibsons...), the electronics are usually awful (these electronics are fine) the bridges are often awful (thusfar, this bridge seems fine; it worked well when I was adjusting it). This does feel like a good guitar; it feels quality in many resects - I hate low end feel and parts, but this isn't that at all.

 

[eSGEe]

WOW-- great axe --- looks happy next to the SG -- which is beyond gorgeous.

Congrats on a great score!!

 

[Mr Grumpy]

WOW-- great axe --- looks happy next to the SG -- which is beyond gorgeous.

Congrats on a great score!!

Thanks, I think you'd like this - you'd probably want pay $250 for one, but I'm not sure that's gonna happen (maybe in a year or so?). Strangely, to my mind, it doesn't look or feel that out of place next to the SG, as you said. It'll probably stave off my desire for a Gibson LP/SG special for a while.

 

[eSGEe]

YEs probably 200-250 on used market in a year or so lol

I really like my Epiphone Silverburst Les Paul Custom and my Thunderbird zero complaints and zero issues really.
the quality is "in line" with my Gibsons-- TBTH I have owned Gibsons with LOWER finish quality than the Les Paul Custom !!!!!

 

[Truss_rod]

Great color. I hope you grow to love it.

 

[Dave Sloven]

That selector switch looks EXACTLY like the one that came in my friend's Custom Shop Epiphone SG 50th anniversary. I suspect all of the electronics are the same.

I replaced the switch and the output jack for him recently. The problems with the output jack were all due to him using a straight (rather than angled) instrument cable; he damaged the wood around the jack but thankfully the larger Switchcraft replacement took up the slack. The bridge pickup stopped working and it was the switch that was at fault, so I replaced it with a Switchcraft. That was much more difficult than the jack. First the wires connect differently, but thankfully I had plenty of wire to work with in making changes. Then the poker chip is actually bonded to the top and doesn't come loose, so I had to ream out the poker chip and wood at the same time with a hand reamer. I just did that slowly. Also the nut is kind of meant to look like a Gibson deep nut but it isn't. I fitted the short straight style switch with a deep nut. I can't be sure whether you would need the short one or the long one, that's something you will have to work out when it happens (it will eventually happen). I reamed it out enough for the deep nut to fit and it all looks really nice now. You could probably take away less material and just use the Firebird/Explorer style shallow nut but the deep nut does look nicer with a body mounted (rather than pickguard mounted) jack and poker chip.

The switch was the only real issue and we were both expecting it after bad experiences with other Epis and just the bad feel of the switch.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Nice score! I hope that you are able to bring it to your expectations for playability.
Are the pickups RWRP(noise canceling I’m middle position with volumes matched)?

 

[Hackmaster]

Great review, even better with the detailed pictures.
You make a very positive case for the Epiphone.
Even with the glaring issues right out of the box, you saw the diamond in the rough.
Most people would have sent it packing.
The thing that really surprised me was the thinness of the LP body next to the SG, not a problem, I would have just thought it would be Les Paul thickness.
The retail price, though not outrageous, still seems a tad high for a guitar that has to be reassembled and set up by the end user.
But that is the opinion of a cheapskate.
All in all, great review Grump

 

[Session 5]

Congrats Grumpy! Enjoy your new axe!

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Thank you for all of your comments and support.

Maybe because of the thick poly rather than the thin nitro on the Gibson, it took a while for the truss rod changes to really take effect and the neck to settle ( a couple of hours). Now, it is perfect, and Ray will be pleased to know that no fretwork will be required - every note rings true... I am happy with the string height and action, and I'm enjoying playing the special a lot more than the few times that I've picked up full fat Les Pauls (or the crap Harley Benton I had, but to be fair that was $150 only) - it seems to have the small throwable feel of an SG; I like that. I just put the one screw back in the trussrod cover...



I'm even liking the headstock, logo and truss rod cover on this thing - it what it is.

The Yellow Monster feels great in the hands (lovely neck and frets), plays easily and sounds really good. It's past midnight now, so I'm off to bed, but I'm looking forward to rocking this thing and finding the best pickup settings.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

YEs probably 200-250 on used market in a year or so lol

You know, I don't think they will. I looked at the prices of the similar 2010 versions and you're struggling to get them under $350, many are $500; I think that this one with the nicer tuners and upgraded pickups is even better, so I'm thinking it'll hold it's price.

I agree that it sounds expensive for a basic Epi, but to me this is better than the high end Epis where they just attempt to make them look like a Gibson Les Paul Standard and fail miserably, imho. The juniors and specials are so simple that Epi can get closer to a Gibson version at a low price - this is my thinking, and haven't come across an Epi as good as this one (played a lot in shops, nearly got a 1955 recently-ish, but $700 is Gibson territory whereas $400 isn't (unless you get a great blow-out deal like you did because the 2015s, although good guitars, were always unpopular). But, if you do find one of these at a low price then give it a go - it's no Gibson, but it is a bloody good Epi.

Great color. I hope you grow to love it.

I am actually, thanks, and I like the colour too. I virtually feel that I've got a CS '57 and saved over $2000... (ok, it's not, but it's quite a likeable little thing).

That selector switch looks EXACTLY like the one that came in my friend's Custom Shop Epiphone SG 50th anniversary. I suspect all of the electronics are the same.

I replaced the switch and the output jack for him recently. The problems with the output jack were all due to him using a straight (rather than angled) instrument cable; he damaged the wood around the jack but thankfully the larger Switchcraft replacement took up the slack. The bridge pickup stopped working and it was the switch that was at fault, so I replaced it with a Switchcraft. That was much more difficult than the jack. First the wires connect differently, but thankfully I had plenty of wire to work with in making changes. Then the poker chip is actually bonded to the top and doesn't come loose, so I had to ream out the poker chip and wood at the same time with a hand reamer. I just did that slowly. Also the nut is kind of meant to look like a Gibson deep nut but it isn't. I fitted the short straight style switch with a deep nut. I can't be sure whether you would need the short one or the long one, that's something you will have to work out when it happens (it will eventually happen). I reamed it out enough for the deep nut to fit and it all looks really nice now. You could probably take away less material and just use the Firebird/Explorer style shallow nut but the deep nut does look nicer with a body mounted (rather than pickguard mounted) jack and poker chip.

The switch was the only real issue and we were both expecting it after bad experiences with other Epis and just the bad feel of the switch.

Thank you, I'm sure you're right, but for now I'm gonna leave it alone and just play it until it breaks. The whole idea of this guitar was to spend $300ish for a chair-side thrash machine/noodler that plugs into my THR10.

Nice score! I hope that you are able to bring it to your expectations for playability.
Are the pickups RWRP(noise canceling I’m middle position with volumes matched)?

Playability now is excellent, thank you. I'll check the RWRP tomorrow and get back to you.

ou make a very positive case for the Epiphone.
Even with the glaring issues right out of the box, you saw the diamond in the rough.

I am not fond of the Epiphone brand, but I would recommend this one. I will keep it and just deal with the little issues; it's such a good solid guitar that a set up and sorting out the pickup height (and doing something with the D-string tuner; not sure what yet - maybe needs to be pushed in a tad?) is well worth it; you'd kinda do that on any guitar although the shop should have done better. Maybe it was too low cost for them to bother doing a set up...

Enjoy your new axe!

Thanks, I am.