My Encounter with Paul Reed Smith & Brian Ewald

Robert Herndon said:
Ray,

I've never met Paul, but I have met (and pestered) Semie Mosley, Grover Jackson and Wayne Charvel. I was younger then, so I didn't have as much research and tinkering under my belt as I do now, but my memory is good and I can draw some similarities.

I can recall - with the utmost clarity - that each one of these masters had a different opinion. To one, wood had everything to do with tone and to the other, it meant nothing. Their collective answers, to the same questions, were as widely varied as that of several psychologists evaluating the same patient.

What I see now, as I look back, is each man had an opinion and stuck with it throughout their career. I can recall the brass nut question in vivid detail. Only Grover believed it influenced tone in a positive way.

I personally believe that the sheer intensity of the research done by you - and the forum at large collectively - is a far more broad database than someone like Paul has access too. He's successful and he no longer needs to collect data.

We also must accept that guitar guys are opinionated and - at least to some degree - resistant to change.

I think he was expecting worship and not questions.

I've personally switched between locking tuners and Gibson Green Keys on the Les Paul with no difference in tone and I have back-to-back recordings to prove it, so I consider his statement about a '54 Les Paul to be rooted in personal opinion as opposed to fact.

I think your questions were relevant and well thought out to say the least. I don't think he expected to encounter someone on that level.

I think you handled the situation very well.

When I have met those I consider heroes of music or guitar, I intentionally give no indication that I am impressed by them. I have never asked for an autograph. I intentionally meet them on their level.

Not long ago, I bumped into Doug Aldrich at Suhr while visiting their facility. As we passed each other I said, "Hey, Doug...nice to see you." He nodded and passed by.

A bit later, we passed again and he asked where we had met before (we hadn't) and a conversation over guitars - Les Paul's in particular just happened. Very relaxed.

I've done the same with other heroes in this industry...its kind of SOP for me and ive been invited into all manner of gatherings I would not otherwise find my way into because of my neutral demeanor.

I think Paul is a smart fellow. However, look how much exposure to tone, problems and myths our collective here has debunked with fact. Secondly, and lets be honest, the tonal 'mystique' of magic woods and capacitors sells guitars. Any firm involved in guitar production would be a fool not to capitalize on that...
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I agree with this. I usually do not attend these, but it was so local I thought I was regret missing it more than going. Now I am not so sure. As for questions over praise, he started the seminar by opening it up to questions, and had no problem giving uninformed people a serious ribbing.
 
RVA said:
I agree with this. I usually do not attend these, but it was so local I thought I was regret missing it more than going. Now I am not so sure. As for questions over praise, he started the seminar by opening it up to questions, and had no problem giving uninformed people a serious ribbing.
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knowledge is power...
 
Lets dissect this threads opening posts:
RVA said:
... he (PRS) mentioned that if you put Grovers on a '56 Les Paul, it would not sound good anymore and he had learned that this was essential to tone.
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Grovers were founded in 1952. Maybe in 1956, the Grovers were inferior to the Klusons. Plus, the holes needed to be reamed to accept the Grovers. Maybe a lot of these retro-fits in the 50s were done poorly. BUT... if I were to have a fully original '56 LP today, I definitely would not be installing any Grovers in it. Not because I think it will hurt the tone of the guitar, but for the purpose of perserving the guitar's originality and value.

RVA said:
I was just wondering, why do you think that tuners affect tone since they are after the nut."
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Of course tuners will affect tone. Tolerances and precision between the gears and all other parts, material integrity, and proper installation will have an affect in how stable or solid the tuners will behave with a butt-load of varying string tension. Different amount of mass introduced at the headstock will affect the guitar's tonal response. Sometimes more mass might be good. Sometimes less mass might be magical. Guitar resonance is affected by hundreds of variables.

RVA said:
Paul: If you had a Stradivarius, would you put Grovers on it
RVA: I do not know anything about violins, but I think it would not matter on a guitar as long as the strings were stable and you did the nut correctly
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Good and respectful answer for Paul's stupid hypothesis.

RVA said:
Paul: If I put a rubber bridge and tuners, would that affect the tone.
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This is really stupid.

RVA said:
Paul: If I was building you a $ 100K guitar, would you want me to put Grovers or plastic, would it not matter?
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He's digging himself into a hole here. At this point, I personally would have shifted into smart-a$$ mode and responded by: "No, no Mr. Smith! Please put your own tuners in that guitar and sell it for $95K."

RVA said:
Paul: Do you own any PRS Guitars?
RVA: Yes, 7
Paul: Then I guess I should be quiet and thank you for your support
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Now, Paul is "Phishing" you and has failed. He responds by: "Get away kid, you're bothering me."

RVA said:
Paul: Do you own a private stock?
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A "Gotcha" moment!

RVA said:
RVA: Not yet, but I always dreamed about going to Maryland and picking my own wood.
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Don't forget to bring a brand new set of Grover tuners for the Maryland PRS facility to install instead.

RVA said:
Paul: (no response)
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Don't take this as a negative response from Paul. He was probably thinking of jokes as a possible response. See post #8

... :cheers:
 
syscokid said:
Lets dissect this threads opening posts:

Grovers were founded in 1952. Maybe in 1956, the Grovers were inferior to the Klusons. Plus, the holes needed to be reamed to accept the Grovers. Maybe a lot of these retro-fits in the 50s were done poorly. BUT... if I were to have a fully original '56 LP today, I definitely would not be installing any Grovers in it. Not because I think it will hurt the tone of the guitar, but for the purpose of perserving the guitar's originality and value.


Of course tuners will affect tone. Tolerances and precision between the gears and all other parts, material integrity, and proper installation will have an affect in how stable or solid the tuners will behave with a butt-load of varying string tension. Different amount of mass introduced at the headstock will affect the guitar's tonal response. Sometimes more mass might be good. Sometimes less mass might be magical. Guitar resonance is affected by hundreds of variables.


Good and respectful answer for Paul's stupid hypothesis.


This is really stupid.


He's digging himself into a hole here. At this point, I personally would have shifted into smart-a$$ mode and responded by: "No, no Mr. Smith! Please put your own tuners in that guitar and sell it for $95K."


Now, Paul is "Phishing" you and has failed. He responds by: "Get away kid, you're bothering me."


A "Gotcha" moment!


Don't forget to bring a brand new set of Grover tuners for the Maryland PRS facility to install instead.


Don't take this as a negative response from Paul. He was probably thinking of jokes as a possible response. See post #8

... :cheers:
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I disagree with your headstock mass premise. Make sure you pick the right headstock tuner for your tone.

As for the gears, etc., a baseline of my response was it would not affect tone if the strings were as stable as they would have been otherwise
 
Im guessing Paul approached grover for a discount a years ago and they told him to pack sand--- there is ALWAYS more to every story--- why did he use GROVER--- why not Schaller--- or Wilkinson---or ebay generics---

more to that story I GUARANTEE you ;)


I agree with you Ray -- if the TUNER is stable-- it dont matter if Grover-- Ernie--Bert or Snuffleupagous made the damn thing it dont effect tone---

Paul: If I put a rubber bridge and tuners, would that affect the tone.
Pauls experimenting w/ Rubber bRIDGES????
 
RVA said:
I disagree with your headstock mass premise. Make sure you pick the right headstock tuner for your tone.

As for the gears, etc., a baseline of my response was it would not affect tone if the strings were as stable as they would have been otherwise
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Part of the point I was trying to make is that a well built tuner is essential to the stability of the tuner and how stable it holds and adjusts the strings pitch. A tuner with less than optimum tolerances or other inferior qualities will affect the guitar's performance... Right?

As far as my opinion on the effect of different mass at the headstock... I'm leaving this alone... for now :wink:

But... I wouldn't have this opinion, or conclusion, if I had not witness this effect myself. OK... now I'll leave it alone :wink:

But...









... :oops2:
 
syscokid said:
As far as my opinion on the effect of different mass at the headstock... I'm leaving this alone... for now :wink:

But... I wouldn't have this opinion, or conclusion, if I had not witness this effect myself. OK... now I'll leave it alone :wink:
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Same here. I have removed the Klusons from more than one Gibson, installed Grovers, and in return received a noticeable improvement in sustain and clarity. Yep, anecdotal, but repeatable.
 
RVA said:
I went to a seminar / meet and greet tonight at the Music Zoo on Roslyn NY. I will start with pics and video. Then I have a story, which has me feeling; odd - bad - weird?

Here are some pics

The performance with Brian Ewald, whoo can really play!
Paul and I

View attachment 17784
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Whoa...whoa...whoa...!

I just noticed...

You went there wearing a TIE!?!?

I’m sitting in a cubicle wearing a tie right now. But, I’d never go to a guitar event like this!

A tie will ruin your tone faster than anything else.

Where’s your self-respect, man?

:D
 
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My view...you called him out and he had no legitimate response. Then he tried to shame you by asking how many PRS you owned and you gave him the big smack down! Now where does he have left to go?
He tries to move you along to buy his most expensive gear...

Guy sounded like a douche to me. I don't own a PRS and don't plan to and while I hero worship artists I never hero worship builders...it's just a thing.
 
syscokid said:
Tolerances and precision between the gears and all other parts, material integrity, and proper installation will have an affect in how stable or solid the tuners will behave with a butt-load of varying string tension.
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syscokid said:
Part of the point I was trying to make is that a well built tuner is essential to the stability of the tuner and how stable it holds and adjusts the strings pitch. A tuner with less than optimum tolerances or other inferior qualities will affect the guitar's performance... Right?
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No. You were trying to refute my point. There is no "part". If you say that the tuners are important to sound only insofar as they keep the strings stable, you are making the same point.


syscokid said:
Different amount of mass introduced at the headstock will affect the guitar's tonal response. Sometimes more mass might be good. Sometimes less mass might be magical. Guitar resonance is affected by hundreds of variables.
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syscokid said:
As far as my opinion on the effect of different mass at the headstock... I'm leaving this alone... for now :wink:

But... I wouldn't have this opinion, or conclusion, if I had not witness this effect myself. OK... now I'll leave it alone :wink:

But...
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So, sometimes more is good, sometimes less, you can't say which or when; it can be repeated, but you have not produced a repeatable result...from anybody; you know it is different, because, you just know - similar to arguing with someone as to whether god exists.

If this is true, why not sell guitars with super light headstocks/tuners and weight clips so that you get just the exact right amount of mass? Do they sell headstock mass weights, and if they did, would you buy them? What would you say if I told you that I was shaving down my headstock to increase my sustain because, after trying to add weight, I was unsuccessful increasing sustain? Why is it that we only discuss weight in terms of tuners, not other things that contribute or detract from weight, if it matters? Why do they put those veneers on the headstock if it will mess with your tone? How heavy are all those inlays anyway. Maybe we should sell replaceable inlays so you can swap them in and out for optimal headstock weight.

This is just silly and you know it because...NO-ONE ACTUALLY CARES. The only people who bring this up are snake oil salesmen and guitar dorks like us, but it is BS from PRS

PS - thank you for being my Paul Reed Smith stand-in so I can vent. even though I expect a fiery retort, you are a good friend!!
 
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smitty_p said:
Whoa...whoa...whoa...!

I just noticed...

You went there wearing a TIE!?!?

I’m sitting in a cubicle wearing a tie right now. But, I’d never go to a guitar event like this!

A tie will ruin your tone faster than anything else.

Where’s your self-respect, man?

:D
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I figured the best way to stand out in a bunch of rockers is a suit and tie. I was the rebel that night baby!
 
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