chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
HEYYYYYYYYYYyyyy, I know that KOS guy..Howdy D
Modeling v. Valve amps: The modern debate
- Thread starter RVA
- Start date
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
Just an almost speechless reply to this thread topic.
Instead, I will let the PIG do the talking. BTW WHO is this lucky Bastard JOHAN?
Instead, I will let the PIG do the talking. BTW WHO is this lucky Bastard JOHAN?
THAT'S what I'm talking about!
(Was I talking about that?)
Whatever...if I was talking about anything...I'd be talking about that!
THAT'S the tone, brothers and sisters. Your search is over!
DonP
Guest
I have a straight razor I use occasionally- a Solingen, but I usually use a five-blade Gilette, and yes it easily lasts a month. The trick is to use it immediately out of a long hot shower - the beard is way easier to cut then. Packs of disposables? Nope. Tried them once, and once only.
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
HAHA Don, Good Morning. I learned way back in my 20's about the hot shower, in fact there were times I shaved in the shower. The 10 pack of the best pivoting head Gillette Sensor 2 blade disposable ones are far superior to the old fixed headed Bic ones I believe I tried once that a college friend used. One time I tried to see if Personna ones were equal to the Gillette's. Nope, they felt snaggy and less sharp right from the package.
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
In regards to the straight razors I bought, I kind of miss that hot towel shave my friend used to give me so that is why I wanted to at least try one myself. Since he is now blind, I obviously will refrain from having him demonstrate the technique, HAHA
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
Paul G.
Well-Known Member
My opinions on this are strong, and probably obnoxious.
Just a quick question: on your modeling amps, did you ever notice that the settings are named to let you know what sort of actual amplifier they are "simulating"?
So, you have a AD convertor, digital circuitry that applies algorithms that try to emulate the complex and constantly varying response of a primitive analog circuit, DA converter.
So, it's like watching one of those digitally created Sci-Fi movies. Sure they're cool, but that isn't actually a naked Angelina Jolie in the crap movie "Beowulf" and you know it.
In the end, good guitar player, good guitar (optional, some bad guitars are good), good amp. Unbeatable.
To me.
My amps -- AB165 Bassman, Ceriatone JTM45, Trinity 18-Watt Plexi, Home-brew 18-Watt, Ceriatone Lightning, and, yes a SS Orange Crush 35ldx. Not modeling, just a decent-sounding SS amp that fits in my pocket.
P.
Just a quick question: on your modeling amps, did you ever notice that the settings are named to let you know what sort of actual amplifier they are "simulating"?
So, you have a AD convertor, digital circuitry that applies algorithms that try to emulate the complex and constantly varying response of a primitive analog circuit, DA converter.
So, it's like watching one of those digitally created Sci-Fi movies. Sure they're cool, but that isn't actually a naked Angelina Jolie in the crap movie "Beowulf" and you know it.
In the end, good guitar player, good guitar (optional, some bad guitars are good), good amp. Unbeatable.
To me.
My amps -- AB165 Bassman, Ceriatone JTM45, Trinity 18-Watt Plexi, Home-brew 18-Watt, Ceriatone Lightning, and, yes a SS Orange Crush 35ldx. Not modeling, just a decent-sounding SS amp that fits in my pocket.
P.
DonP
Guest
Well, that is certainly an opinion.
Tony M.
Ambassador
To me having these modelling amps that sound "just like" amp A or amp B
is sort of like the people who live in NE New Jersey and Western Connecticut.
When you ask them exactly where they live they always seem to answer you
in terms of how long it takes them to get to Manhattan.
"About 15 minutes from the tunnel"
"Just across the George"
"About 20 minutes out"
"Less than an hour from 'The City' "
I play through old Fenders most of the time.
They sound just like old Fenders.
is sort of like the people who live in NE New Jersey and Western Connecticut.
When you ask them exactly where they live they always seem to answer you
in terms of how long it takes them to get to Manhattan.
"About 15 minutes from the tunnel"
"Just across the George"
"About 20 minutes out"
"Less than an hour from 'The City' "
I play through old Fenders most of the time.
They sound just like old Fenders.
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Paul G.
Well-Known Member
I know I can plug any guitar into any one of them, twirl a dial or two and get killer tone.
ninjaking67
Ambassador of Good Will
The only way someone can make me sound good is if they play instead of me!
ninjaking67
Ambassador of Good Will
I agree with Paul G. I am by no means a great player and will be the very first to admit it.
I do prefer the sound and feel of a real tube amplifier over the tone of an SS or modeler. I must say that I do not have a lot of experience with modeling amps though.
I have 2 amps currently: a Trinity 18-Watt Plexi and a Trinity 22-Watt Hiwatt DR103 clone. Both sound amazing and both were worth the extra money when I bought them.
ninjaking67
Ambassador of Good Will
I would love to try out a Kemper!
mdubya
Well-Known Member
My little Mustang I modeler, which cost all of $93 shipped to my door, can get tones at (low) volumes that my Champ can't even dream of getting. Plug in a set of headphones/earbuds and it is even better.
That's not to say I don't love my Champ or my JMP 2204. I do, indeed.
But the little Mustang can do things the Champ and the 2204 cannot, and vice versa. The fact that it does it for less than $100 is miracle like.
I played the 2204 loud and proud in clubs for years, so I have nothing to prove. I just want to play my guitar. My current status means I have to do it at little or no volume.
I'd love to try a Fractal AX8. And the Kempers I have heard sound fantastic. But the AX8 would give me foot controllable switching at half the price for a Kemper and foot controller or AXE FXII with foot controller. In the meantime, I am considering a Mustang Floor Model to get the foot control at very modest $$$.
That's not to say I don't love my Champ or my JMP 2204. I do, indeed.
But the little Mustang can do things the Champ and the 2204 cannot, and vice versa. The fact that it does it for less than $100 is miracle like.
I played the 2204 loud and proud in clubs for years, so I have nothing to prove. I just want to play my guitar. My current status means I have to do it at little or no volume.
I'd love to try a Fractal AX8. And the Kempers I have heard sound fantastic. But the AX8 would give me foot controllable switching at half the price for a Kemper and foot controller or AXE FXII with foot controller. In the meantime, I am considering a Mustang Floor Model to get the foot control at very modest $$$.
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
Alright, I am trying this again. Still have a need for a "practice" amp, even though I have been using my Mark 5:25 with headphones lately to great effect. Just need something small/portable/simple that I can bring to the office/sit on the patio with/do a small jam with - a grab-n-go, y'know?
So, I picked up a Boss Katana 50
https://www.boss.info/us/products/katana-50/
It's small and light enough and importantly has a 12" speaker and in theory enough power for a jam, although I have only had it a short time and have not confirmed that yet, probably over the weekend. Also, it was quite inexpensive and I have always had good luck with Boss products.
Initial impressions are:
1. The stock speaker is truly awful. I installed a WGS ET-65 and the improvement was dramatic.
2. Don't expect anything resembling a usable clean tone and you won't be let down. That's actually been my experience with all modelers, but in this case they are specifically marketing this thing as a "rock" amp and clearly have not put a lot of time into honing the clean tone.
3. It actually gets really, really loud. It does sound as loud as a 40/50 watt tube amp but the proof is in the jam and we'll see if it disappears when the drums kick in.
4. Build quality is a bit better than I have seen in other brands at a similar price point. I had to remove the chassis to put the new speaker in and was quite surprised that the electronics are fully encased and there is a large aluminum heat sink on the underside that the amp chips are mounted to, kind of like a stereo amp.
5. The "Brown Sound" model is worth the price of admission. They took it from the uber-expensive Waza amp and it delivers. It is the best "feeling" model I have run across in a low-dollar practice amp and reacts very much like a tube amp to changes in the guitar volume knob. Nice!
6. The "crunch" and "lead" amp models, whatever they are based on, are budget amp standard fare. Unlikely I will use them, especially considering how good the "brown" model is, which I will likely simply program 2 versions of (high gain and low gain) into the presets.
7. The onboard effects are hit and miss. The Blues Driver, Analog Delay and Octave are killer. Most everything else, including the reverbs is meh, and the Touch Wah is utterly unusable. Fine by me, I only need 2 good sounds for the average jam.
All-in-all, it's a heck of a nice package for 2 bills. For an extra $70 to put a good speaker in I think I have what I want for a portable/inexpensive amp that I won't worry about.
It's not high-end by any means, but I do have to admit that the state-of-the-art is moving very quickly with modeling amps. The "brown" model is simply a great-sounding guitar amp and I am pretty impressed at this price point.
Does it sound as good as a tube amp? Probably depends more on the tube amp than on the Katana: it's not half as detailed, responsive, dynamic or organic as my Mark 5 (and shouldn't be for a fraction of the price). It's pretty much on par with some tube amps I have played that fall into the $500/$600 range though, and that's kind of impressive. As I said earlier in the thread, I feel certain that one day we'll all be playing modelers in one form or another - this makes me realize the biggest hill to climb is likely glassy-to-greasy clan tones. I have not heard a modeler come close to those yet.
So, I picked up a Boss Katana 50
https://www.boss.info/us/products/katana-50/
It's small and light enough and importantly has a 12" speaker and in theory enough power for a jam, although I have only had it a short time and have not confirmed that yet, probably over the weekend. Also, it was quite inexpensive and I have always had good luck with Boss products.
Initial impressions are:
1. The stock speaker is truly awful. I installed a WGS ET-65 and the improvement was dramatic.
2. Don't expect anything resembling a usable clean tone and you won't be let down. That's actually been my experience with all modelers, but in this case they are specifically marketing this thing as a "rock" amp and clearly have not put a lot of time into honing the clean tone.
3. It actually gets really, really loud. It does sound as loud as a 40/50 watt tube amp but the proof is in the jam and we'll see if it disappears when the drums kick in.
4. Build quality is a bit better than I have seen in other brands at a similar price point. I had to remove the chassis to put the new speaker in and was quite surprised that the electronics are fully encased and there is a large aluminum heat sink on the underside that the amp chips are mounted to, kind of like a stereo amp.
5. The "Brown Sound" model is worth the price of admission. They took it from the uber-expensive Waza amp and it delivers. It is the best "feeling" model I have run across in a low-dollar practice amp and reacts very much like a tube amp to changes in the guitar volume knob. Nice!
6. The "crunch" and "lead" amp models, whatever they are based on, are budget amp standard fare. Unlikely I will use them, especially considering how good the "brown" model is, which I will likely simply program 2 versions of (high gain and low gain) into the presets.
7. The onboard effects are hit and miss. The Blues Driver, Analog Delay and Octave are killer. Most everything else, including the reverbs is meh, and the Touch Wah is utterly unusable. Fine by me, I only need 2 good sounds for the average jam.
All-in-all, it's a heck of a nice package for 2 bills. For an extra $70 to put a good speaker in I think I have what I want for a portable/inexpensive amp that I won't worry about.
It's not high-end by any means, but I do have to admit that the state-of-the-art is moving very quickly with modeling amps. The "brown" model is simply a great-sounding guitar amp and I am pretty impressed at this price point.
Does it sound as good as a tube amp? Probably depends more on the tube amp than on the Katana: it's not half as detailed, responsive, dynamic or organic as my Mark 5 (and shouldn't be for a fraction of the price). It's pretty much on par with some tube amps I have played that fall into the $500/$600 range though, and that's kind of impressive. As I said earlier in the thread, I feel certain that one day we'll all be playing modelers in one form or another - this makes me realize the biggest hill to climb is likely glassy-to-greasy clan tones. I have not heard a modeler come close to those yet.