PelliX
Well-Known Member
First, I would like to state that this is not a race, I'm not just blindly throwing money at a problem tomorrow. However, it's been a recurring annoyance that I need to resolve at some point. Let me explain what my "problem" is, and then I'll go into the "requirements" for a solution.
Current situation
I have a modest home studio, there's no commercial intent behind it, just a hobby that's grown into a behemoth as mine sometimes do. Basically, I have a hybrid arrangement; FX processors, compressors, rack synths are hardware, so 'outboard' from the digital point of view. I use Reaper as the central DAW and run Linux which sort of hinders my interopability with some things, not much, though. I currently use an 8-in/8-out interface with an additional 8-in/8-out ADAT expansion strip, giving me 16 channels in each direction. I am also on the lookout to upgrade that interface so that I can accomodate another 8/8 ADAT expansion, yielding a total of 24 channels each way (I'm tempted to try a Focusrite 18i20 Gen4, but Antelope Audio sort of has my preference right now as I'm wary of new Focusrite gear - it can be a little hit or miss). Anyway, that's in the future.
While I have tape and other formats at my disposal, the DAW does practically all the recording - I'm not a luddite or vehemently opposed to digital or 'new things'. On the other hand, I like to keep things as 'reliable' as possible in the sense that I don't want to have to relinquish equipment because of updates or 'no longer being supported'. I use MIDI for practically all automation which has to present in the studio for digital instruments anyway, so I use it to load patches, set EQ's, dial in effects, etc. For this I use practically ancient eMagic AMT and Unitors - they're still great, MIDI hasn't really changed. Instruments, DAW outputs, most mics and so on all meet at the mixing desk from where the various mixes are supplied (monitors, headphone distribution, recording ouputs, etc).
When working on projects, I basically drive "scenes" from Reaper via MIDI, i.e. dialing in all the digital instruments, processors and auxiliary equipment. Unfortunately, the current desk doesn't support any kind of automation, it's just an analog desk with digital FX which aren't really used often, honestly. No scenes, no EQ automation, no motorized faders, just oldschool. Because we (as a band) tend to have a number of things unfinished at any given time I find myself hopping between projects a bit and - you guessed it - the desk doesn't do me any favors there.
The way forward...
There are a lot of things I would love to have in a new desk. Obviously, I'm going to have to compromise on some because I'm simply not going to shell out for a state-of-the-art Neve, SSL, etc. Here are some 'must haves' and 'would likes'.
Must have:
* Automation, ideally via MIDI, proprietary USB is less desirable, generic Ethernet (HTTP API or whatever) would be great, too. Old fashioned serial is also welcome. Must handle at least fader levels, ideally the whole channel strips.
* 24 mono plus ~8 stereo channels. 32 mono channels would be the minimum, but doable.
* "British" or other EQ per channel strip and pre/post fader sends.
* 4-8 channels or more with mic preamps, don't have to be the bee's knees, but just neutral.
* Decent group/bus arrangement. Will negotiate on what that means in practice based on the rest of the capabilities.
* "Good" sound quality. It's hard to put that in words, but not a total entry level budget type of affair.
Would like:
* ADAT integration. Instead of getting an additional expansion strip with the new interface, I could hook up the desk directly - win/win.
* Integrated half-decent (or better) effects for the odd time you need something quick and dirty like an extra reverb or delay, etc.
* Decent meterbridge. It can be hacked in aftermarket of course. Would still be preferred/nice, though.
The other way...
"Why use a desk at all?". Well, it's my workflow and works with the hardware I have. There are lots of fancy DAW controllers out there and while I use one or two sparingly, they don't replace a desk for me. Could I do it all in the DAW? Yes, provided I have enough analog inputs and preamps at my disposal, sure. What I've found is that the analog signal path imparts something to the sound. "That's called hiss, signal loss and distortion, you dummy!". I know, but that doesn't take away the fact that I like it. Noise levels are what they are and, done right, analog doesn't have to be the nightmare people make it out to be. We play music that was written and recorded in the analog era practically exclusively and our own songs follow in the same styles. Maybe, I genuinely don't know, I just feel better manually twisting knobs and moving faders, feeling push buttons, knowing that the signal path is undernear my fingertips, etc.
To be very clear, I'm *not* criticizing modern professional studio methods. I've worked with them and I appreciate them as superior in most cases. I also appreciate modelers as superior in some regards, yet they just don't flip my 'warm-n-fuzzy-feeling' switch so I use valve amps mainly. The odd time that I do a project for someone else, I cater to their needs, but it's a rare occurrence.
Ultimately, I'm asking for your wisdom, input and suggestions. I've looked around a bit from time to time and never found quite what I'm looking for. Soundcraft had (2nd hand is always preferred, so EOL products are totally fine) some promising options, but don't seem to have sold or survived well. Not many for sale. I wouldn't mind a Midas or Digico, yet the larger Digico models seem unobtanium. Allen & Heath have some cute kit, but not practically automated.
Your thoughts? (and congrats for making it through that wad of nonsense above!)
Current situation
I have a modest home studio, there's no commercial intent behind it, just a hobby that's grown into a behemoth as mine sometimes do. Basically, I have a hybrid arrangement; FX processors, compressors, rack synths are hardware, so 'outboard' from the digital point of view. I use Reaper as the central DAW and run Linux which sort of hinders my interopability with some things, not much, though. I currently use an 8-in/8-out interface with an additional 8-in/8-out ADAT expansion strip, giving me 16 channels in each direction. I am also on the lookout to upgrade that interface so that I can accomodate another 8/8 ADAT expansion, yielding a total of 24 channels each way (I'm tempted to try a Focusrite 18i20 Gen4, but Antelope Audio sort of has my preference right now as I'm wary of new Focusrite gear - it can be a little hit or miss). Anyway, that's in the future.
While I have tape and other formats at my disposal, the DAW does practically all the recording - I'm not a luddite or vehemently opposed to digital or 'new things'. On the other hand, I like to keep things as 'reliable' as possible in the sense that I don't want to have to relinquish equipment because of updates or 'no longer being supported'. I use MIDI for practically all automation which has to present in the studio for digital instruments anyway, so I use it to load patches, set EQ's, dial in effects, etc. For this I use practically ancient eMagic AMT and Unitors - they're still great, MIDI hasn't really changed. Instruments, DAW outputs, most mics and so on all meet at the mixing desk from where the various mixes are supplied (monitors, headphone distribution, recording ouputs, etc).
When working on projects, I basically drive "scenes" from Reaper via MIDI, i.e. dialing in all the digital instruments, processors and auxiliary equipment. Unfortunately, the current desk doesn't support any kind of automation, it's just an analog desk with digital FX which aren't really used often, honestly. No scenes, no EQ automation, no motorized faders, just oldschool. Because we (as a band) tend to have a number of things unfinished at any given time I find myself hopping between projects a bit and - you guessed it - the desk doesn't do me any favors there.
The way forward...
There are a lot of things I would love to have in a new desk. Obviously, I'm going to have to compromise on some because I'm simply not going to shell out for a state-of-the-art Neve, SSL, etc. Here are some 'must haves' and 'would likes'.
Must have:
* Automation, ideally via MIDI, proprietary USB is less desirable, generic Ethernet (HTTP API or whatever) would be great, too. Old fashioned serial is also welcome. Must handle at least fader levels, ideally the whole channel strips.
* 24 mono plus ~8 stereo channels. 32 mono channels would be the minimum, but doable.
* "British" or other EQ per channel strip and pre/post fader sends.
* 4-8 channels or more with mic preamps, don't have to be the bee's knees, but just neutral.
* Decent group/bus arrangement. Will negotiate on what that means in practice based on the rest of the capabilities.
* "Good" sound quality. It's hard to put that in words, but not a total entry level budget type of affair.
Would like:
* ADAT integration. Instead of getting an additional expansion strip with the new interface, I could hook up the desk directly - win/win.
* Integrated half-decent (or better) effects for the odd time you need something quick and dirty like an extra reverb or delay, etc.
* Decent meterbridge. It can be hacked in aftermarket of course. Would still be preferred/nice, though.
The other way...
"Why use a desk at all?". Well, it's my workflow and works with the hardware I have. There are lots of fancy DAW controllers out there and while I use one or two sparingly, they don't replace a desk for me. Could I do it all in the DAW? Yes, provided I have enough analog inputs and preamps at my disposal, sure. What I've found is that the analog signal path imparts something to the sound. "That's called hiss, signal loss and distortion, you dummy!". I know, but that doesn't take away the fact that I like it. Noise levels are what they are and, done right, analog doesn't have to be the nightmare people make it out to be. We play music that was written and recorded in the analog era practically exclusively and our own songs follow in the same styles. Maybe, I genuinely don't know, I just feel better manually twisting knobs and moving faders, feeling push buttons, knowing that the signal path is undernear my fingertips, etc.
To be very clear, I'm *not* criticizing modern professional studio methods. I've worked with them and I appreciate them as superior in most cases. I also appreciate modelers as superior in some regards, yet they just don't flip my 'warm-n-fuzzy-feeling' switch so I use valve amps mainly. The odd time that I do a project for someone else, I cater to their needs, but it's a rare occurrence.
Ultimately, I'm asking for your wisdom, input and suggestions. I've looked around a bit from time to time and never found quite what I'm looking for. Soundcraft had (2nd hand is always preferred, so EOL products are totally fine) some promising options, but don't seem to have sold or survived well. Not many for sale. I wouldn't mind a Midas or Digico, yet the larger Digico models seem unobtanium. Allen & Heath have some cute kit, but not practically automated.
Your thoughts? (and congrats for making it through that wad of nonsense above!)
