Is it ok to talk about Chibson here
- Thread starter Robb
- Start date
Talk away. Photos required.I'm asking this because I've been whipped this week on another forum for doing so.
I also won't say a certain Lonn gave me the lecture
Edit: Besides…. I have a fake Tele. Who am I to cast aspersions on anyone.
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Beagle
Ambassador of Slippin' and a Slidin'
Amazing that he could discuss them at length before he was reported to another mod that did follow the rulesI'm asking this because I've been whipped this week on another forum for doing so.
I also won't say a certain Lonn gave me the lecture
Whoa...this same topic was just discussed on another forum I visit from time to time.
Weird, huh?
I wonder if there's something in the water?
Anyway...
Before (or if) this really gets cranked up, let me just get something off my chest and point out that the issue with Chibsons is a trademark.
Not a patent.
Not a copyright.
A trademark.
I say this because the terms "patent" and "copyright" get used a lot in these discussions, but they are different things than trademarks.
Guitar logos, headstock shapes, and body shapes are not patented or copyrighted; they are trademarked IF the manufacturer has gone through the effort of filing for and receiving the trademark. Trademark protection is not automatic; you have to file for the trademark and it must be approved.
Sorry, y'all...that distinction is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I had to vent a little.
Weird, huh?
I wonder if there's something in the water?
Anyway...
Before (or if) this really gets cranked up, let me just get something off my chest and point out that the issue with Chibsons is a trademark.
Not a patent.
Not a copyright.
A trademark.
I say this because the terms "patent" and "copyright" get used a lot in these discussions, but they are different things than trademarks.
Guitar logos, headstock shapes, and body shapes are not patented or copyrighted; they are trademarked IF the manufacturer has gone through the effort of filing for and receiving the trademark. Trademark protection is not automatic; you have to file for the trademark and it must be approved.
Sorry, y'all...that distinction is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I had to vent a little.
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
Right. If it's actually a counterfeit (says Gibson, headstock shape, etc.) you will definitely hear a lot of strong opinions, including mine. It's not personal, but there are plenty of us here that stand in pretty staunch opposition to such things. For us in the US it is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods, not sure what the law is there in Canada.
Some folks aint got the means to buy 3 to 5 grand Gibsons but still like the shape ect of a Lester.So theres always gonna be Chibsons,Epiphones,knockoffs ect. Like i said,you dont like Walmart,dont go in there.Ya dont like Chibsons,dont buy one.I dont care personnaly.For the likes of me i find it funny they been makin Fender forgeries for years in Asia and nobody gives a rats ass.
I would agree to this premise. Bodies are tough. Everybody and their puppy dog makes a single cut out solid body. All the reputable companies have their own head stock shape. Even my Hagstrom Viking at first blush looks a whole lot like an ES335.... until you see the distinctive Hagstrom head stock and tuners.
Epiphone isn't an issue. It says Epi.... head stock is different.... etc. Just like my G400. Looks and feels like an SG, but I'm quite pointed about calling it my G400. I don't call it a SG out of respect for you guys that have ponied up the bucks for a genuine Gibby. There are plenty of companies out there that make an inexpensive LP appearing guitar... but they use their own head stock design and name. And from what I'm reading. Gibson/Epiphone is going to start using the Gibson shaped head stock on Epiphone's as well. Which is going to give the consumer a legal inexpensive LP.
This issue with chibsons is that they look like a Gibson LP. Head stock is shaped like a gibby and says Gibson on it. To the uninformed they think they're getting the real deal.
It's all good man. What we have here in TTR is a place where opinions are generally respected. Not like other forums and platforms where you have that one (or several) guy(s) that disagrees with everything and everyone and tries to bully their opinions on the masses. Here we talk about it, say our piece and move on.I should have thought of it twice before opening my mouth about this again, I'm first of all a guitar player, whatever the name that's on it. Sorry again to hurt the feelings of some potato couch pickers. And this is not PERSONAL
I totally understand your position...and I actually take much the same point of view.
But, your comment, "For us in the US it is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods," is not so cut-and-dried.
To your point, one can see on the CBP website, a statement that sounds much like what you've said, "It is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods. Bringing them into the United States may result in civil or criminal penalties and purchasing counterfeit goods often supports criminal activities, such as forced labor or human trafficking. "
See the website below where this statement can be found.
However, when it comes to individuals purchasing for personal use, things become less clear.
Consider this statement from Michigan State University School of Criminal Justice, "According to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, it is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods in the United States. However, there is a distinction between buying a single counterfeit product for individual use (without re-sale) rather than buying multiple counterfeit products. Buying a single counterfeit product for individual use is not illegal in the US."
See website below to read the article.
Avoiding Counterfeit Items This Holiday Season | School of Criminal Justice | Michigan State University
With the Holiday Season fast approaching, we are speaking with experts within the School of Criminal Justice to learn how we can keep our information safe and avoid scams. Today we hear from Criminal Justice Graduate Student Lisa Moore on how to avoid counterfeit products.
For further information, here it is in the words of the DOJ, themselves, "Subsection 2320(d) provides a definition of the term "trafficking." This definition is derived from a related, recently enacted statute, the Piracy and Counterfeiting Amendments Act of 1982, now codified at 18 U.S.C. 2318(b). Under this definition, the scope of the act is limited to commercial activities. Thus it is not a crime under this act for an individual knowingly to purchase goods bearing counterfeit marks, if the purchase is for the individual's personal use."
And...the website is linked below:
1709. Joint Statement -- Parts C And D. Definitions -- "Trafficking" -- "Counterfeit Marks"
This is archived content from the U.S. Department of Justice website. The information here may be outdated and links may no longer function. Please contact webmaster@usdoj.gov if you have any questions about the archive site.
Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not defending the ethical issue of purchasing a counterfeit, and I am certainly not rendering any legal advice to buy them. An individual could still be arrested for purchasing a counterfeit. The authorities could still be of the opinion that the purchase was for more than personal use.
The safest and most responsible route is not to purchase them.
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
I totally understand your position...and I actually take much the same point of view.
But, your comment, "For us in the US it is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods," is not so cut-and-dried.
To your point, one can see on the CBP website, a statement that sounds much like what you've said, "It is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods. Bringing them into the United States may result in civil or criminal penalties and purchasing counterfeit goods often supports criminal activities, such as forced labor or human trafficking. "
See the website below where this statement can be found.
However, when it comes to individuals purchasing for personal use, things become less clear.
Consider this statement from Michigan State University School of Criminal Justice, "According to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, it is illegal to purchase counterfeit goods in the United States. However, there is a distinction between buying a single counterfeit product for individual use (without re-sale) rather than buying multiple counterfeit products. Buying a single counterfeit product for individual use is not illegal in the US."
See website below to read the article.
Avoiding Counterfeit Items This Holiday Season | School of Criminal Justice | Michigan State University
With the Holiday Season fast approaching, we are speaking with experts within the School of Criminal Justice to learn how we can keep our information safe and avoid scams. Today we hear from Criminal Justice Graduate Student Lisa Moore on how to avoid counterfeit products.cj.msu.edu
For further information, here it is in the words of the DOJ, themselves, "Subsection 2320(d) provides a definition of the term "trafficking." This definition is derived from a related, recently enacted statute, the Piracy and Counterfeiting Amendments Act of 1982, now codified at 18 U.S.C. 2318(b). Under this definition, the scope of the act is limited to commercial activities. Thus it is not a crime under this act for an individual knowingly to purchase goods bearing counterfeit marks, if the purchase is for the individual's personal use."
And...the website is linked below:
1709. Joint Statement -- Parts C And D. Definitions -- "Trafficking" -- "Counterfeit Marks"
This is archived content from the U.S. Department of Justice website. The information here may be outdated and links may no longer function. Please contact webmaster@usdoj.gov if you have any questions about the archive site.www.justice.gov
Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not defending the ethical issue of purchasing a counterfeit, and I am certainly not rendering any legal advice to buy them. An individual could still be arrested for purchasing a counterfeit. The authorities could still be of the opinion that the purchase was for more than personal use.
The safest and most responsible route is not to purchase them.
Yeah, that's a lot of hairsplitting and semantics because it is the various authors interpretation of the law - but, it is illegal to purchase a counterfeit. Now, whether anyone would actually be prosecuted for knowingly buying a counterfeit is in question as I don't believe they would be accused of trafficking, and a good lawyer could make use of these various theories, but it also leaves open the question of why anyone would want a fake in the first place when there are so many legal alternatives.
Great question.
I will tell you three reasons why I have in the past briefly considered getting a Chibson:
1. Damage. When I was gigging more, I considered getting a Chibson to avoid damaging my real Gibson.
2. Theft. Similar to above, I would rather have a cheap Chibson stolen at a gig than my real and expensive Gibson.
3. Mods. From time to time I've thought of some rather significant mods I'd like to make to one or other Gibson guitars (because I love their styling so much). I'd rather carve up a fake than a real Gibson.
Now, are all these ethically defensible reasons for buying one? I would say not, and I never bought a fake. But, I think these sorts of thoughts go through many peoples' minds.
Amp Mad Scientist
Ambassador of Heresy
Is this the sumptuous plywood sustain you crave?I'm asking this because I've been whipped this week on another forum for doing so.
I also won't say a certain Lonn gave me the lecture
Or is it the 89 cent pickups?
I'll admit those counterfeits are getting better these days. Somebody puts the effort in.
But why not just build an original guitar that people want to play instead? And sell that?
Why go to all the trouble of copying something else?
Whoever does the building is certainly capable of building guitars; it's just no original ideas.
So we can talk about Chenders too?
Boubou
Well-Known Member
But why would you want to talk about Chibson?
Really.
Joking aside, not sure what you are referring to, if it says Gibson on the headstock and it’s not made by Gibson, you and this site are promoting counterfeit products, which is illegal.
Same body shape, meh! There are tons of them out there
Really.
Joking aside, not sure what you are referring to, if it says Gibson on the headstock and it’s not made by Gibson, you and this site are promoting counterfeit products, which is illegal.
Same body shape, meh! There are tons of them out there
For me the gigging and getting stolen don’t apply…. Well unless some jerk breaks into my house. Only place I’ve ever gigged was church. I’d like to think things were safe there.
Total agree on the mod thing. The afore mentioned G400 was my first electric. Inexpensive. Modded/swapped everything on it other than wood and plastic. Would not have done than much to a genuine Gibson. Definitely not to an expensive LP.