Info and Opinions Please?

SIx String Chef said:
But now that you mention the whole T-Top vs PAF thing... I haver a couple of pickups that I would appreciate any help with to identify and figure out if they are as legit as I think they are...

A little background: I bought this as a pair from a guy in a local blues/rock band back in the very early 80s (no later than 1982 as I recall), to install in my Hondo II "Paul". He told me he had pulled them from his Gibson LP to install a set that included a DM superdistortion and another one.
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OK, so here are the Pups in question:

PUs PF Hondo II.jpg

The neck one (right hand) has the type of 2-conductor insulated wire that I think corresponds to the T-Tops, judging from the pics I've seen in the internet. The Bridge (LH) has the standard braided grounding wire that I would expect from a PAF. It's their backsides that intrigue me the most:

PUs PF Hondo II N.jpg

PUs PF Hondo II B.jpg

As you can see, the one just above has some clear "resin", im guessing epoxy or polyester to "seal" the components. Apparent;ly the previous owner unscrewed the coil screws and broke off some of the resin. The neck one has some lacquer or similar also applied to the screws.

I measured their resistance values and you can see them in sharpie.

Any guesses would be much more educated than mine, I'm sure... and very welcome, indeed!
 
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SIx String Chef said:
OK, so here are the Pups in question:

View attachment 75271

The neck one (right hand) has the type of 2-conductor insulated wire that I think corresponds to the T-Tops, judging from the pics I've seen in the internet. The Bridge (LH) has the standard braided grounding wire that I would expect from a PAF. It's their backsides that intrigue me the most:

View attachment 75272

View attachment 75273

As you can see, the one just above has some clear "resin", im guessing epoxy or polyester to "seal" the components. Apparent;ly the previous owner unscrewed the coil screws and broke off some of the resin. The neck one has some lacquer or similar also applied to the screws.

I measured their resistance values and you can see them in sharpie.

Any guesses would be much more educated than mine, I'm sure... and very welcome, indeed!
Click to expand...

Top one is not a Gibson pickup. No idea what it is but my guess is offshore.

Bottom one appears to be a Tarback (Gibson) pickup:

Inductance 4.7 Henries
Resonant Peak 5.8 Khz
DC resistance 7.8 K ohms (at 1000 cps) - so yours is in the right range for the age
Impedance: High
Two Active upper coils
One Ceramic Magnet (indox 7)
Adjustable pole pieces
Removable pickup cover
2 point height adjustment

Late '70's. Not a T-Top - they were a Bill Lawrence design and sound pretty good in the right guitar, like an L-6. Don't think they ever loaded them in Les Pauls but can stand corrected if someone has a source.
 
SIx String Chef said:
OK, so here are the Pups in question:

View attachment 75271

The neck one (right hand) has the type of 2-conductor insulated wire that I think corresponds to the T-Tops, judging from the pics I've seen in the internet. The Bridge (LH) has the standard braided grounding wire that I would expect from a PAF. It's their backsides that intrigue me the most:

View attachment 75272

View attachment 75273

As you can see, the one just above has some clear "resin", im guessing epoxy or polyester to "seal" the components. Apparent;ly the previous owner unscrewed the coil screws and broke off some of the resin. The neck one has some lacquer or similar also applied to the screws.

I measured their resistance values and you can see them in sharpie.

Any guesses would be much more educated than mine, I'm sure... and very welcome, indeed!
Click to expand...
this is poonanny magnet?
 
SIx String Chef said:
OK, so here are the Pups in question:

View attachment 75271

The neck one (right hand) has the type of 2-conductor insulated wire that I think corresponds to the T-Tops, judging from the pics I've seen in the internet. The Bridge (LH) has the standard braided grounding wire that I would expect from a PAF. It's their backsides that intrigue me the most:

View attachment 75272

View attachment 75273

As you can see, the one just above has some clear "resin", im guessing epoxy or polyester to "seal" the components. Apparent;ly the previous owner unscrewed the coil screws and broke off some of the resin. The neck one has some lacquer or similar also applied to the screws.

I measured their resistance values and you can see them in sharpie.

Any guesses would be much more educated than mine, I'm sure... and very welcome, indeed!
Click to expand...
I agree with gball on the top one, it looks to be Asian - in those years most likely Japanese. Not necessarily top of the line, yet some of the MIJ pickups of that era were very good indeed.

Bottom one might be a Japanese copy of a tarback; I've never seen one with a little ground wire coming vertically out of the epoxy like in the upper right corner of yours. However, full disclosure: I'm not an authority when it comes to tarbacks.

Sometimes the epoxy was clear. They did have a bracket like that instead of the usual humbucker baseplate, with a ceramic magnet under it - and slugs which should be visible, but here are not. This pickup almost looks like it has a blade mag, protruding slightly higher than the bracket. Hard to tell from your photo; I could be mistaken about that.

Here's a pic of an early tarback with clear epoxy; you can clearly see the slugs and the magnet flat beneath the bracket, rather than vertical through the bobbin.

Okay, software won't link to the picture for some reason. Here's a regular link instead:
 
gball said:
Top one is not a Gibson pickup. No idea what it is but my guess is offshore.

Bottom one appears to be a Tarback (Gibson) pickup:

Inductance 4.7 Henries
Resonant Peak 5.8 Khz
DC resistance 7.8 K ohms (at 1000 cps) - so yours is in the right range for the age
Impedance: High
Two Active upper coils
One Ceramic Magnet (indox 7)
Adjustable pole pieces
Removable pickup cover
2 point height adjustment

Late '70's. Not a T-Top - they were a Bill Lawrence design and sound pretty good in the right guitar, like an L-6. Don't think they ever loaded them in Les Pauls but can stand corrected if someone has a source.
Click to expand...
That sounds just about right, I installed this combo originally in my Hondo II "The Paul" solidbody copy (which I've already shown in a previous thread) and the tone I got was much superior than with the original Hondo pickups it had... A lot more sustain and a very smooth, velvety distortion... to use a tasting term: very well rounded.

Hondo II PF The Paul small.jpg

I think the only thing that has kept me from installing them again is that the thread in one of the neck pickup height screw holes is stripped. But now that I saw someone make a similar repair by soldering a small nut on the bracket over the stripped hole, I think that's simple enough to try. I only need to find a nut with the same thread size.

Thanks for the info, @gball! That gives me a more accurate idea of what it is that I have here.
 
Ramo said:
Hey @SIx String Chef if you cook me this I’ll stop calling you poser metler :)

View attachment 75267
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If you want me to cook khinkali for you, I'll be more than happy to do so! I have parsley, chili peppers from my backyard and even some fenugreek and caraway seed (that is spice store-bought)... the rest of the ingredients are very standard. Would you like them Pork and Beef or Lamb?? Just like siberian-style pelmeni but with more spice, kick and flavour... Only catch is that you'd have to drop by my kitchen to taste them and give your seal of approval, Brother Ramo! :dood: ;)
 
eclecticsynergy said:
I agree with gball on the top one, it looks to be Asian - in those years most likely Japanese. Not necessarily top of the line, yet some of the MIJ pickups of that era were very good indeed.

Bottom one might be a Japanese copy of a tarback; I've never seen one with a little ground wire coming vertically out of the epoxy like in the upper right corner of yours. However, full disclosure: I'm not an authority when it comes to tarbacks.

Sometimes the epoxy was clear. They did have a bracket like that instead of the usual humbucker baseplate, with a ceramic magnet under it - and slugs which should be visible, but here are not. This pickup almost looks like it has a blade mag, protruding slightly higher than the bracket. Hard to tell from your photo; I could be mistaken about that.

Here's a pic of an early tarback with clear epoxy; you can clearly see the slugs and the magnet flat beneath the bracket, rather than vertical through the bobbin.

Okay, software won't link to the picture for some reason. Here's a regular link instead:
Click to expand...
Thanks, @eclecticsynergy! Yes, I believe it is a magnet (i still really don't know enough about this pup to say whether it's a blade or not) and it does protrude slightly above the center bracket level. If it it turns out it has slugs, they should be underneath that magnet. I guess a way to find out would be to put some steel powder / shavings on the cover and see what pattern they make. But I may be wrong...
 
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I have a pair of Gibson 490's in my DoubleNeck that I got from @ChasFred, and despite the stigma of being common or ordinary, they are really great sounding. I have Thro-Bak's in in the 12 string side and the 490's have every bit as much clarity as the Thro-Baks at $616.00/pair.
 
Robert Herndon said:
I have a pair of Gibson 490's in my DoubleNeck that I got from @ChasFred, and despite the stigma of being common or ordinary, they are really great sounding. I have Thro-Bak's in in the 12 string side and the 490's have every bit as much clarity as the Thro-Baks at $616.00/pair.
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Wow $ 616.00 a pair ??
I would have bought another guitar first, before spending that kind of dough on pickups
 
Mitch Pearrow SJMP said:
Wow $ 616.00 a pair ??
I would have bought another guitar first, before spending that kind of dough on pickups
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Ok,

I did some stupid things in this quest and I've spent 4 times that on vintage Gibson PAF's, before I wised up...But this is my garage built DoubleNeck, so I didn't mind the $$$$.

20210307_120517.jpg

I got a performing artist's discount via my BMI number, but it only saved me $150.00 off the retail price.

I'm still money ahead on this guitar when you consider what they cost to purchase....

Screenshot_20211105-143139_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20210604-125826_Chrome.jpg
 
Mitch Pearrow SJMP said:
That’s more than I paid for my truck
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The double neck cost me about $2,700.00 to build..and that's just the wood and cutting/shaping. That doesn't include pickups, wiring or hardware. It took me over a year and a half to build and It was completed on December 27, 2017.

FB_IMG_1618415320228.jpg

The body and necks were cut and shaped by B.Hefner in Whittier. The body is 3 piece laminated constructuon with the center slab being African Blackwood with Cuban Mahogany caps, cut cross grained and laminated in a press. All the body planks had visual imperfections which reduced their cost to some degree.

The necks are one piece 'furniture grade' Cuban mahogany, extra wide profiles with volutes. The 6 string headstock has a 10° angle and the 12 string side is 13° respectively.

The neck to body joints are custom tongue in groove and not a traditional tenon style joint for better strength. A vent hole was drilled in the body and the necks were pressed into the body. The excess glue escaped through the vents, which were later plugged with wood dowels.

The fretboard are AAAA Gaboon Ebony, hand selected for blackness during one of my trips to B.Hefner.

DoubleNeck Headstocks April 2018.jpg

I used Genuine Gibson tuning keys, hand made pearl truss rod covers, CTS Pro pots, (1mg) with .015uf K47 Tone Capacitors.

There's 20 feet of copper shielding tape inside the cavities. I made my own harness from Gravitt push-back wiring, with Switchcraft switches and jacks. Thro-Bak's SLE-101 PAF clones are in the 12 string side and Gibson 490's are in the six string side.

The straplocks attach into threaded brass ferrules, screwed into the body and then concealed with wood plugs.

The guitar is wired separately, so two amps are needed to play it live.

Notice that I wear a custom leg harness to stop the neck dive issues. It was custom made for me by my friends at Castastrophe Lounge in Joshua Tree. California.

FB_IMG_1608577040504.jpg
At 13 pounds, it's not too terribly heavy, but you definitely feel it after a show...
 
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